at what age would you let your dd go on this train journey?

[steppemum]

dd is 14 and has a very close friend who lives in a large city 200 miles away (not London).

dd is on the one hand quite sensible, and acts like the mother hen to her friends, and over prepares and plans for things, and on the other hand quite anxious and struggles with mental health.
She is very familiar with trains and goes on the train to school every day, she has done slightly longer journey to meet up with friends.

She wants to go and visit this friend. She is really desperate to go and see them, misses them a lot. They came to visit in the summer and over Christmas as they were on the way home from visiting relatives.

I have refused to drive up there. The friends mother does not want to drive down. (and to be honest, while the mum is a friend of mine, if one of us drives it means we are then spending 2-3 days together which I don't really want to give my time to).

The only other way is for her to go by train or bus. Both require several changes, either in London, or at eg Birmingham New Street.

I have said no. If there was a train with no changes then yes. if she was 16, then yes, if she was not alone, then yes, but 3 changes in big city stations (her school train is little local stations) at 14, then no.

Am I being unreasonable? I'm struggling to hold the line here in the face of full emotional assault from her and from the friend via friend's mother.

She and the friend have spent all weekend trying to find a route - what if I went on this route and so only changed at XX and YY stations (not large stations)

I wouldn't OP simply because your DD will be travelling alone and there are too many unknowns / things that could go wrong with multiple changes. I would try to reach a compromise whereby a plan is put in place for a meet up at Easter which helps DD navigate the journey, eg meeting halfway.

What I'm not really getting from your post though is why this friendship / visit is so important to your daughter? And if this really makes a difference to your decision. With the best will in the world it's really hard to maintain meaningful long distance friendships at this age and I would be encouraging your DD to invest in friendships closer to home to.

Are there any options other than London? I used to regularly go from just north of London to Northumberland. The choices were a change in London then a long train journey or a journey with two stops in smaller cities (but an hour longer). I found the smaller cities much easier. I just had to get off, check the screen for platform number and then climb the stairs to walk to the other platform. London involved a lot more walking to find the right platform and made me nervous.

@steppemum - is there a direct train or one-change route from London?

Could you travel with her to London, put her on the right train, then spend a couple of days with your friend. She comes back to London and you travel home together?

This is an excellent idea for the Easter holidays, thank you.
There is a National express directly from London to the city she needs to get to, so we could get the coach to London, I'll put her on her coach and then go and see my friend.
It makes it a veyr long journey for here (London is in the wrong direction) but makes it much more doable.

Just to say again.
If I travel half way to drop her off, that is 2 hours, so that is a 4 hours round trip.
Then repeat 2/3 days later.

and I take a day off work to do it?

I'm not even going to comment on the flight. It is obvious we don't live in a big city, hence 3 train changes, and I have clearly said money is an issue.

I said in an earlier post, that I am not convinced she woudl ask a stranger for help, even one in British Rail uniform. This is because when she gets anxious or panics, she finds it extremely difficult to talk to a stranger. She woudl phone me though.

I had reason to use Passenger Assist recently and I cannot speak highly enough of the help I got. They were waiting next to my carriage and got me onto each of my connecting trains at each leg of my journey.

It would be a no from me.
If it was a direct train; as you say yourself, then it would be a yes, but 2 changes at big stations and on her own is a no.

‘ I said in an earlier post, that I am not convinced she woudl ask a stranger for help, even one in British Rail uniform. This is because when she gets anxious or panics, she finds it extremely difficult to talk to a stranger. She woudl phone me though.’
^
Please don’t let her do such a journey alone knowing this. She needs to be confident enough to ask for help for a multitude of reasons.

I would say no just because the chances of the trains being cancelled , delayed is pretty high. My friend and I got stuck trying to get out of Birmingham after some major train failure. The replacement buses were mobbed and because neither of us were local we were wandering around for ages trying to get out. There were no obvious staff to ask. In London I would be better placed to find an alternative route ( because there are alternatives) but you do get big failures with whole lines out of action. That’s without the prospects of bull-shit on the trains themselves from “man drinking at 10” “man without a ticket arguing with the conductor” “loud stag group” “loud football supporters off to the match” “you are in my seat person” etc. So it’s a no from me.

But you don't need to do the trip 3 days later or take time off work. You could drive the 2 hours on a Sat morning - 10am to 12pm. Your DD spends time with her friend 12pm - 4pm. You read a book/work on your laptop/go shopping/sleep in your car/whatever you like. Then you drive your DD home 4pm - 6pm. I don't understand why you're pretending that's impossible.
Do you not like this friendship for your DD?

a couple of people have asked about encouraging friends closer to home.

I'll be honest, I would be happy if this friendship died. I see many unhealthy things in it. They are online all the time and are quite co-dependant.
Helping her to realise that she is not going to be able to maintain this friendship long term is a positive as far as I am concerned. But that is partly why I started this thread, to see if I was being unreasonable in saying no, or if others would also say no.

But I will talk to her about making a plan for Easter. I am not going to let her do this this half term. My gut feeling is that she is not ready. And I'm pretty sure that dd1 would have been fine, and so would ds and I think we would have let them (although it is hard to know in retrospect). So the more I think about it, the more this is a dd2 issue.

I think I cannot go against my gut feeling that this is not OK for HER.
I think that she has the look of a vulnerable kid. Bit waif and stray looking. I think she would be a prime target for harrassment. I think she is pushing hard to go because she wants to see her friend, but underneath I am think she is quite worried about doing the journey, and might be relieved that I say no.

Thank you for your thoughts, I am listening and taking in different opinions

Clearly you aren't comfortable with this.
I would be.
My eldest was train savvy from an early age, because here in Surrey most boys come to school on the train, and socialising they jump on trains left right and centre to go from one persons house to another's, abs then to play football in another town. Riding bikes for miles and miles between the 6 or 7 towns that commute/feed into the school.
Ds2 (who walks to school, but many friends as I said do daily trains) who is younger than your dd, last month changed trains twice to go to a town for bowling and paint-balling. But there is as 4 of them.

As the thread continues, I just can't see how you are going to make this happen.

@ADisgruntledPelican

But you don't need to do the trip 3 days later or take time off work. You could drive the 2 hours on a Sat morning - 10am to 12pm. Your DD spends time with her friend 12pm - 4pm. You read a book/work on your laptop/go shopping/sleep in your car/whatever you like. Then you drive your DD home 4pm - 6pm. I don't understand why you're pretending that's impossible. Do you not like this friendship for your DD?

I apologise, I didn't realise that you meant they meet up and I wait.

I have already said, her mum can't do that this half term so a half way meet is not possible this time.

and for various reasons, she can't do this at the weekend, due to prior commitments by both girls on sat/sun.
It would have to be on a working day over half term.

I'd let her go. Train apps are great these days, you can download maps of stations, live track your connections and see what platforms you need to get to.

My (then) 13 yo did a journey with changes at Plymouth and Bristol and was scared but successful.

[quote steppemum]**@steppemum - is there a direct train or one-change route from London?

Could you travel with her to London, put her on the right train, then spend a couple of days with your friend. She comes back to London and you travel home together?

This is an excellent idea for the Easter holidays, thank you.
There is a National express directly from London to the city she needs to get to, so we could get the coach to London, I'll put her on her coach and then go and see my friend.
It makes it a veyr long journey for here (London is in the wrong direction) but makes it much more doable.[/quote]
@steppemum hurrah. I hoped that might work out and then you get to see your friend which sounds like it would be a fab use of time off.

I bet your DD will be thrilled at the thought of an Easter trip too.

I did journeys like this at 13 as was at boarding school and had to get long train journeys changing in major cities to stay with relatives. It was fine but you have to trust your gut instinct about whether your daughter is ready and it sounds like she is not.

I’m normally all for giving more freedom to teens like this - but this one is a step too far. If she’s not old enough or confident enough to ask a member of staff for help, she’s not old enough to go on her own. She is not a singular person she is part of a family, and unfortunately for her that means compromises have to be made - the compromise here being that she waits until she is older to do the trip alone NOT that mum take annual leave to drive six hours round trip one day and six hours another day to pick her up.

@ADisgruntledPelican maybe she doesn’t want to do the best part of six hours driving in one day, on the two days off she gets a week? You sound like a bloody teenager yourself “Do you not like this friendship for your DD?” Get a grip. Parents do not exist purely to provide money and a free taxi service to their children. It’s a shame the friend moved away, the daughter can FaceTime and call and email and send letters until she’s older and more confident to make the journey on her own.

^I have already said, her mum can't do that this half term so a half way meet is not possible this time.

and for various reasons, she can't do this at the weekend, due to prior commitments by both girls on sat/sun.
It would have to be on a working day over half term.^

@steppemum that makes sense.

@ChiefWiggumsBoy I've already explained I'd do that drive for my DC because I think the lockdown has been particularly hard for young teens. You seem overly emotional about all this. Perhaps you should take your own advice about getting a grip.

@Doomscrolling

I had reason to use Passenger Assist recently and I cannot speak highly enough of the help I got. They were waiting next to my carriage and got me onto each of my connecting trains at each leg of my journey.

thank you, I will look into it.

Sounds fine to me- a 14 year old is more than capable of changing trains a few times. Make sure she has a charged phone in case of any issues but I'm not sure what the issue is. If a train gets cancelled or something she'll manage the same as anyone else does, and you will just be a phone call away,

So - it sounds like you want to say no for some very good reasons

You are worried about the friendship
You are worried about her being a target for harassment on the way
You think she won't ask for help if something goes wrong

Each of these is a good enough reason for saying no, are you just worried about her reaction? If so then when you say no you can suggest some positive steps to help her become more confident and talk vaguely about future trips.

I think one reaosn it is hard, is becasue dd is adamant that she CAN do it and thinks I am unreasonable.

She says she WOULD ask for help. But I know her when she gets worried/stressed and sometimes she turns in on herself, and can't talk to others.

It is a teenage parenting thing, the balance between trusting them and letting them take risks and letting go, and encouraging independance, and on the other hand knowing the other side of your teen, and knowing them well enough to say no.

It is not easy is it?

I would drive her. I've done such trips, probably longer in terms of mileage, in order for my son and his friends to visit a friend that has moved away from our area, I took all three of them and it was no hassle at all.

You don't have to spend time with the other mother, just tell her that you're booking into a cheap b&b and going shopping having some you time etc.

I did this when I was 10 - my dad wrote the stations and changes down for me, and I managed fine

I would let her but only on the proviso that she is confident enough to approach someone working at the station to help her if she needs it. I'd also make sure she was armed with written instructions with each train/platform change/train leaving time.

So she knows she's getting on x train, stopping at y, changing to platform z at abc time, getting on xx train at the specific time so on and so forth. So she could follow it to the letter.

My DD is 14 in April and I think I'd allow it. I'd be more reassured that they were big city stations with more staff to help rather than small town stations with tumbleweed blowing through them 🤣

Could she do a shorter trip but involving a change at a major station as a trial run to show you she can cope?