at what age would you let your dd go on this train journey?

[steppemum]

dd is 14 and has a very close friend who lives in a large city 200 miles away (not London).

dd is on the one hand quite sensible, and acts like the mother hen to her friends, and over prepares and plans for things, and on the other hand quite anxious and struggles with mental health.
She is very familiar with trains and goes on the train to school every day, she has done slightly longer journey to meet up with friends.

She wants to go and visit this friend. She is really desperate to go and see them, misses them a lot. They came to visit in the summer and over Christmas as they were on the way home from visiting relatives.

I have refused to drive up there. The friends mother does not want to drive down. (and to be honest, while the mum is a friend of mine, if one of us drives it means we are then spending 2-3 days together which I don't really want to give my time to).

The only other way is for her to go by train or bus. Both require several changes, either in London, or at eg Birmingham New Street.

I have said no. If there was a train with no changes then yes. if she was 16, then yes, if she was not alone, then yes, but 3 changes in big city stations (her school train is little local stations) at 14, then no.

Am I being unreasonable? I'm struggling to hold the line here in the face of full emotional assault from her and from the friend via friend's mother.

She and the friend have spent all weekend trying to find a route - what if I went on this route and so only changed at XX and YY stations (not large stations)

I would let her go.

Talk her through the route, how to check platforms, what alternatives there are if there are delays, and what to do if there are changes/cancellations - how to ask station staff for help, etc. If you are available on the phone as well that day, and so are the people she is visiting, then I can't see why she wouldn't cope with it herself.

Make sure she knows how to find the right carriage/seat; what would she do if someone was sitting in it; what would she do if there was unwanted attention from someone; how will she deal with buying food/using the toilet when she's on her own - taking valuables with her; making sure her phone is charged and not relying on train sockets to charge it up/not using it all up on the train; having enough money card/cash if things go wrong and she needs a taxi etc.

It sounds fine otherwise.

And yes, I think it's a reasonable thing for her to want to do in half term, and for parents to encourag/facilitate in whatever way they can.

I would. If she has the trainline app on her phone it will tell her which platform etc she needs to change to and when.

I'd let her, I was flying back and forth from ME at that age without accompanied flyer status. It was quite normal for us. A sensible 14 yo with a phone to contact you, will be fine.

I wouldn't. And i'm pretty laid back!

After reading your updates, given she's seen her at Xmas, she can wait til Easter.

My two haven't seen their grandparents since October - and won't be seeing them til Easter. They've managed to wait and they're both under 10. They understand it's costly.

To answer your question, No, I don’t think I would this time. You’ve got excellent reasons.

However

If the 2 kids meet half way, then they are just both in a strange city, both miles away from home killing time for the day. And she still has to do that on the train!
that doesn't feel particularly safe to me.

I’d let them do this.
Say the first ‘big city’ change (with the connections you’re worried about is Birmingham NS. I’d let her meet her friend there. Friend also only doing the same journey (a local change at big station near them).

They meet up for a day in Birmingham, plenty of teen friendly shopping that’s easily navigated. They come home.

Your DD gets experience of big city station first hand so will be more prepared when she is ready to go all the way alone.

Can the friend come and meet her at the last big city (you said that was a big change then 20 min train) so that leaves only the first change which you weren’t worried about, then one big city change to navigate.

@ihatesoaps

Could she fly instead?

!

@ArachnidArachnid

Can the friend come and meet her at the last big city (you said that was a big change then 20 min train) so that leaves only the first change which you weren’t worried about, then one big city change to navigate.

yes I think this is probably possible. and I would definitely ask them to if she did it.

Does she have another friend that could/would be allowed to go with her? I'd be more comfortable with that at 14 if there was two of them travelling there and back

If you were willing to share the two end points you would get advice on possibilities. Without that we dine know if flying is an option.

To be honest I would let her. You only really learn how to deal with these things by doing the.

No I wouldn't and I understand the dilemma.

I have 2 DD 2 school years but nearly 3 in real life apart, the youngest is now 22, so I have recent but not current experience of 14 year olds.
We live within commutable distance (1 local train) to London and both grew up visiting regularly and at 14 (year 10) I was happy that they could go into London, and if the trip had been simple with a transfer through London I would have considered it. Anywhere else, no chance.

Since they started looking at university and going off to do courses we/they have covered most of England and Scotland via rail, it often doesn't go smoothly and it doesn't sound like you are in a position to guide them every step of the way or to rush off and rescue them when needed. Things do go wrong, trains get cancelled and what appears simple can be anything but. In the past month I have had to drive for and hour at night to do a pick up as the trains were messed up and it was that or drive into London (where the train terminated) as it would get in too late for a connection.

Finally, even when the trains are on schedule, there is always the possibility that something else can go wrong, could your DD problem solve? The first time DD2 (age 16) travelled alone to visit DD1 should have been simple, with DD1 meeting her at the station. DD1 managed to have an accident and end up in a&e in another town, this meant DD2 had to get off the train and find the hospital in a place none of us had ever visited before.

One of those threads where it'd be handy to have the ages of each poster's kids listed..! I suspect there is a lot of "at that age, I was thumbing a lift to Aberdeen" going on.

If I didn't want to drive or accompany her, then I'd say no and make that my final answer. There's no chance I'd let my 14 year old go on an unfamiliar 200 mile train ride, swapping in two cities. My 16 year old? Possibly but not happily. 16 year old with a sensible friend - definitely.

At a similar age I had a friend who lived south of London when I lived in the midlands. When we were a bit younger our parents used to meet up at a motorway services and swop us over (about 3 hour round trip for each parent)

Around 14 we started doing the journey on our own. The route was train from local town station to city, change for the London train, tube from north London station to south London station and then train to friends town.

The first couple of times my mum came with me to local city to put me on the London train and her mum met me at north London station to get the tube. Once they knew we were comfortable with that we were allowed to meet up in London alone (usual choice so we could spend all our pocket money in Topshop!) or just do it ourselves. I know my mum was nervous but we were fine and I think it taught me really valuable life skills/independence.

We are still great friends- bridesmaids at each other's weddings etc and I am really grateful that our mums facilitated our contact as we were too young at first to keep in touch properly ourselves.

I think that finding ways of scaffolding your kids to independence is vital. This build up over time and gave me the confidence to to visit my brother on his year abroad at 16 and to go travelling before uni. I think it was really useful life skills.

That being said it does sound like it will be quite an expensive journey and I can see why you have issues with so many changes. I might try and look for a compromise e.g get her to contribute to petrol/train costs for you to go with her

I was 14 when I did a similar journey. I got harassed by a guy to the point I had to sit next to a lady and explain to her that I was on my own and he was constantly harassing me.
I’ve been on trains as an adult and had to deal with similar men.
I was lucky enough to be making a journey where my brother was collecting me the other side and I could pre warn him what was happening before I got off the train.

Harassment of this sort on women and young girls is far too common for me to ever consider letting my daughter do this so young, even if you’re sensible these situations feel really hard to deal with when you’re on your own.

Women have even been sexually assaulted and even raped on trains.

British transport police are really on it, but it’s something to consider.

@steppemum

She also needs to have the confidence to ask a member of staff where she needs to go if she gets confused when switching trains.

actually you may have hit on the crunch of the problem. When worried she is not likely to approach a stranger, even a station guard to ask for help.

It is a 3.5 hour drive door to door, and that is a long way. I have no trouble driving it if I had to, (well apart from the fact that the route is notorious for delays and problems, but hey)

But it is a big ask. She as seen this person more in the last 6 months than I have seen either of my brothers and their families, or any of my friends.
If I am taking 2 days off over half term and driving somewhere, I'd like to catch up with a friend/relative I haven't seen. I
I really really miss my closest friend who lives in London, because at each time when we could have travelled, London was in lockdown.

and money is tight, she knows that, so there are a limited number of trips we can do in a year like this.

@steppemum - is there a direct train or one-change route from London?

Could you travel with her to London, put her on the right train, then spend a couple of days with your friend. She comes back to London and you travel home together?

My DD is 14 and I wouldn't let her do this. She appears confident and would tell me that she was capable but I wouldn't be confident that some unplanned situation would throw her for a loop. It's amazing what 14 year olds don't know because they haven't had experience.

I have to say I also couldn't be comfortable that she would be safe waiting around for the next train. 14 year old girl on her own in a cafe or on a train platform is unfortunately a target.

Last thing - kids always sound confident but sometimes they need us to say no and are actually quite relieved when we do. Not that they will ever admit it!

I see the dilemma. I think I’d say no for half term, but get her to prove to me she could do it. I’d expect maps of each station, usual platforms for inbound and outbound trains, back up plans for if a train was cancelled etc. That’s what I did for my just 13yo on her first train trip last summer (no changes, but had to get off and find a friend at a big station she’d never been to).

I wouldn't allow your 14-yr-old to do the journey because you've made it clear that you don't think she is capable and that she'd struggle to ask for help if she needed it.
I would drive halfway. Driving 2hrs to let my DD see her friend doesn't seem like a lot of effort to me. Lockdown has been hard for DCs and I think it's been especially tough for young teens. So I'd quite happily drive 4hrs round trip to let my DC see their friend. Or I'd keep myself busy in the city and go shopping; work on my laptop in a cafe/my car. Then drive her home again on the same day.

I think you’re being quite mean OP. Is there a way you can drop her somewhere en route? I.e. drive her to Reading for the train to Bristol or to Milton Keynes for the one to Manchester that kind of thing. Otherwise just let her go. Be available on the phone abs have her do find my friends or whatever so you can track her

We've used Passenger Assist many times over the past 20 years for a relative who has a disability and my late DF when he had health issues, @steppemum, and never had any issues. I dont know whether they offer the service to unaccompanied minors usually, the teenage friend that visited us had anxiety. The criteria say "anyone who would have difficulty navigating the station on their own".

You definitely need a chat about sexual harassment and how to keep herself safe from people that are making her feel uncomfortable op.
You could arm her with the contact numbers for the British transport police and give her code words to be able to text you if necessary for you to seek help for her.

My dc were going journeys like this from 12/13 alone (family far away) but they had done the journey plenty of times when younger.
If you route plan it, and she has a smartphone for the train apps I’d allow it (I think -you know your dc best 🙂 )

Ah I see you think she would struggle to ask for help if she needed it.

Yeah, it wouldn’t be negotiable for me at any point because of that thing alone.

I don't think you are comfortable with this, so it doesn't really matter if other people would do it, it is fine to say no. As you say she saw the friend at Christmas and could make an arrangement for Easter or Summer. Instead she could be thinking of how to catch up with the friend online instead. Could they do a zoom sleepover, or play games together on discord? Does she have other friends locally? Maybe you could encourage those friendships instead.