I'm a teenager so I couldn't care less about my appearance.......

[Iamaperiwinkle]

Major RANT alert.

This has been going on for at least 3 years. I throw massive wobbles about it to no effect. Have cried, shouted and now just feel I need to leave it alone and let her sort it out. But I'm worried about social services.

DD is 14. 14 years old and bright and social but can she

1. brush her teeth ?-nope -regularly they are yellow/ orange colour and disgusting. I nag every morning and every evening without fail. She would go over a week if I let her. Brought her a lovely new soft head electric toothbrush -she never uses it
2. wash her face or neck? -nope. Her face wash is x10 the price of mine. She got a lovely one from the body shop -took her out of the day. Brought new sponge, new face wash and a light cream -her neck is grey from the dirt
3. Clean school uniform? -nope. I brought her 7 tops, 7 jumpers, 7 trousers etc for school. She will regularly wear the same one day in and day out despite their being clean ones in her drawer
4. Brush or wash her Hair? -again nice conditioner and shampoo I have to 'force' her in the bath to wash it and she never ever brushes it -and it is long. She looks like she has been dragged through a hedge backwards. I threaten to take her to a hairdresser and she cries. Its awful
5. Nails -clean? No. Never washes her hands unless nagged to the moon. Writes on the back of her hand -it is there the next day. Never cuts her nails or looks after them
6. Does she smell clean? Nope -She smells- if I force her in the bath -once a week that a good week -she just doesn't clean herself at all it is gross.
7. Decent diet? Nope. She eats crap -thin as a rake -does she eat good food ?-nope. She'll eat crap all day.
8. Drink plenty of Water ?- nope. Buy her lovely water bottles -she leaves them at home, doesn't clean them and they have mould in them.

I ranted, shouted, tried to reward, brought her everything and more than she needs. I have cried my eyes out both this week and last week -it's a 3 year problem.

I don't know what else I can do??

This morning -got her up (she never wakes up even with an alarm clock -I have to go in her room with the alarm on full volume and scream at her to wake up so I'm already stressed!!) she has an hour. She did not brush her hair, teeth, wash her hair, put deo on or anything. No breakfast. Walked out of the house with her shoe laces undone looking like -I don't know. I cried. I got in the car and cried.

She said 'I'll wash and brush my hair when we get home' -that was an hour ago

Do I just give up??

@Nannyamc just the odd 16+ years?

I have a 14 year old autistic dd. Ideal student etc etc.
Brushing teeth at least once a day and bathing twice a week are my bottom line. It's not worth the upset to do more.
If your dd has heard the line about not worrying about what people LOOK like, point out that these are SMELL issues and that's different, particularly if she's sensitive to smell.
With dd I need to make things available and wait for her to do it herself. Head on battles are pointless. You need to understand what matters to her and leverage that.

OP if she has ASD you need to start from the perspective that your DD can't do these things. It's not that she doesn't care about it at all or your response to her not doing it, it's that for some reason she can't do it. The fact she doesn't look distressed doesn't mean she isn't distressed. You cry as a last resort, maybe so does she. Think about that. All the distress she suffers up until the point she cries, the point you can finally see it.

There are two places to start:

1. Getting a diagnosis somehow. Social services involvement could actually be a good thing to help with that. If she needs help in later life she's going to need a diagnosis to access it. It's important.

1. Find out the reason why she can't do each and every individual thing. Something somewhere will be intolerable for her with every task, or else she doesn't understand why she needs to do it, or else she can't organise herself to do a task.

You pick up a toothbrush put on toothpaste and use it. She is handed a toothbrush and toothpaste and just looks at it, maybe she can't work out the next step. Maybe she can't bear the feeling of brushing (it could genuinely hurt her, not a hurt you can see, but hurt she can feel). Or can't stand the taste of it.

Every little thing, there will be a reason for it. If you can figure out the reason you have some hope of finding a solution.

There's every possibility she can't get up in the morning because she's exhausted. She might be naturally nocturnal, or have anxiety preventing her sleeping, or just be so worn out from getting through the day having to do things she can't really cope with. Because if she can only do something (schoolwork? Conversation?) at the expense of personal care, that isn't 'coping'.

Excellent advice from Amber there - if you can figure out why that will help. I suspect it's either sensory or executive functioning based.

If you can afford it you need a specialist assessment,
Probably from an OT that specialising is ASD? Might be worth contacting the Lorna Wing centre (who specialise in females with ASD) to see if they can offer advice?

Is she on the autistic spectrum? Issues with water, clothes and similar are common. However there it is normal teen behaviour to an extent, usually things improve in school year 8 or 9.

Her GP thinks that the not getting washed is a 'typical teenager' he knows she has traits of autism and know about the trauma and he strongly suspects she is autistic

If the GP suspects autism have they not referred her for an assessment?

This is the first thing I would look at to be honest. The not cleaning herself is a symptom of something else - be it autism, past trauma as you've mentioned, or just poor mental health for whatever reason.

I know it's hard but I do think you need to back off a bit with the nagging as well - it sounds like it's not making much difference and it will really just make her feel worse and compound the problem. The more you nag, the more negative associations she has around washing/ bathing as it's also affecting your relationship.

She obviously has some kind of sensory issue with water if she was even like this when she was a baby. That does strongly suggest autism and it's not going to be something that she can just easily "get over" because you want her to. She's avoiding it for a reason.

If you have any chance of getting through it then tou need to be beside her and with her, not nagging from above.

First port of call though is getting an autism assessment and going from there. If she is diagnosed she will get more support. Good luck.

Do you think the not wanting her haircut is because going to the hairdressers is overwhelming and stressful for her? Would she find it easier if you had someone come to the house?

I think from everything you have said it's pretty clear she is very likely on the autistic spectrum. I think high-functioning is a bit of misnomer as (like my son) your daughter is very low functioning in ways that others aren't, albeit high-functioning academically.

Agree with PP self care is something she can't do right now, rather than won't. No 'traditional' stick and carrot methods are going to work here, if ASD is at the root. These sound like sensory issues.

I suggest getting a private ASD assessment if at all possible, if waiting times near me are anything to go by, by the time an NHS one comes around she will almost be an adult.

I do speak from experience and without wishing to scaremonger, please watch her very carefully for signs of depression and self-harm particularly if there is previous trauma on top of everything else. Both are worryingly common in HFA.

Having said that all it's such a positive that she has good friends and goes to school willingly. Could her friends be of any help here?

OP.

Can you approach it in your head as her simply not being able to do all these things. Imagine she was in a wheelchair and needed to get to school, you would be sitting down with her and discussing her route, which traffic lights were best to cross at, which school entrance best to use etc. You wouldn't feel frustrated that she couldn't walk off to school. If you assume she can't do these things maybe she could concentrate on teeth as that's the one thing that will be irreversible. Can you discuss short cuts with her and draw up a schedule? Maybe hair wash once every ten days but a good dry shampoo the rest of the time, shower every third day but wipes in between. It sounds like it's all too much for her.

OP I’ve only read your posts, so apologies if these suggestions have been made by others:

• Could you brush her hair and put it in french plaits, when damp, after she washes it? These hold quite well and could keep it reasonably neat for 3/4 days at a time. Depends whether from a sensory perspective she would sit and watch tv etc while allowing you do to this

• Have you tried baths instead of showers? If you run it for her, put bubbles/shower gel in it, would she sit in it and read a book? Even if the doesn’t actually wash her bits (which is not ideal!) it would help make her a bit cleaner.

• Google “Fuzzy brush autism” - she may be willing to chew a fuzzy brush once a day. This is at least better than not brushing at all.

She sounds exceptionally bright, and well liked by her friends and teachers. The hygiene stuff sounds so hard, but I think you’re doing a great job

Agree with others about sensory issues. You can get flavour free toothpaste or powdered if she doesn't like texture. Figure out what's acceptable to her senses and you will find a way. Same with clothing what is the issue? New laundry smell? Labels? Too tight or loose? Good luck

@cracracatlady

Isn’t this just all teenagers. I make mine do all the stuff listed. Stinky, manky clothes etc, no phone. Simple

Are teenagers a little grubby? Yes. Like this? No.

I showered daily every morning before school when I started secondary. Wouldn't have dreamt of doing otherwise.

Op I don't want to alarm, but this kind of behaviour is common in children who are suffering sexual abuse as a way to try to stop the abuser. If their body is smelly and unappealing they think that the abuser might stop.

Wow this was eye opening for me - just as I suspect I am autistic and this was so me to a tee as a child. Also I have an autistic daughter and help support parents with children with challenges - I just hadn't realised "this" was quite so clearly me in this area.

I have a 12 year old with asd and I know the frustration when it seems they just wont. I dont at all doubt you're a dfab mum and have tried so hard. I really hope some of this can come across as different approach rather than criticism in any way.

The recent advise has been fantastic - imagine she was in a wheelchair/what would your expectations be. Read the responses geared at those wtih asd or focus on her not being able rather than unwilling.

I think too focus on the child you actually have rather than a "hypothetical what an x year old should do." You have a child who finds self care such a struggle she will get upset about it. This will be affecting her deeply.

Try to have time away from "the battle. " She will be seeing you as another source of tension - do fun stuff together or sit and watch somethinf you like etc. Make sure you remember all the lovely things you love about her. Both you and her can get so focused on the bits we cant do and it can be very depressing.

Change of perspective. Yes it is incredibly hard for you, more so than parents of nt kids will ever see, the constant striving with it all and trying to do your best etc. But if you can see at these moments that she is a child struggling just as much, and is a child who needs support - it can help diffuse a situation. I have to remind myself of this often...

Choose your batlles - you cant do this all at once. Realistically she's a teen so not long left either.

What can you support her with first? Think of it more as an investigation into why it's difficult (she may not tell you. She may not know...) and try and find ways to support.

I know a story of a child told to "tidy his room." But didn't have the executive function to do this and would end up playing etc which is all the parent saw. Not the distress. And then upset at being told off. What worked for them was photos of how the books looked neat pinned next to the bookshelf etc. This wouldn't work for others. Every person is different.

With clothes. Some find this completely overwhelming (I still do..) and my teen can not be handed a pile of clothes to "put away." If I sit with her or say "can you put these leggings away in your drawer" she can.

Breaking tasks down into small achievable steps can help - ie the leggings not the whole pile.

Having an attitude of putting things into support her rather than to criticise or nag (which as you've seen doesntwork anyway) as you go through each issue will help so so much.

It maybe each night/afterschool whenever they get changed you need to ask for the dirty clothes. Not in a judgey way but in a "ooh canyou just pass me the clothes from today. Way."

My daughter (and mysefl) get very very overwhelmed with a messy room. Yet also lack the executive function to sort it out. So will sit distresssed and then be unable to do other things.

Anything you cam put in place to make life more ordered and less stressful will help. Help night before to lay clothes out for the next day is a big one. (And not being told to do it/getting cross but positive encouragement.)

The thing mentioned above about positiviry is so so important. Nagging or threatening will just cause fear (of not being able to do it) which can trigger a further shutdown.

There isnt a one-size-fits all answer. It will be individual to each person, but these are familiar areas of struggle for autistic girls. It is so worth approaching it together as a thing to face together rather than as a nagging parent.

Also for her own self esteem if she can find out about autistic girls it might well help for so many reasons.

If you read there's a book I recommend as an easy read called "Can you see me?" Written by a young autustic girl and a writer. Her issues will be different from your daughters but it really helps to see things from their perspective. And if you can hold that on your mind when you deal with them it will help so much.

My dc exactly the same will not shower. She will just scream and scream as if the water is hurting but if I run a bath there is a chance she will get in it.

I have to tell her what to do to wash eg squeeze the shower gel on the flannel and then I literally tell her what part of the body to wash. It sounds ridiculous but if I said, go and have a shower, she literally would never be clean as she couldn’t do it.

This reminded me very much of my DD (who never had a diagnosis) and DS2 who only had a diagnosis of ASD and ADD at 15. I can’t help too much with the personal hygiene issues, DD did improve at around 16-17 when she got a boyfriend and did always brush her teeth at least once a day. DS2 still has issues at 24 and I have tried every toothpaste, brush combination to support tooth brushing, his personal hygiene generally is somewhat improved due to him having psoriasis and needing to keep his skin clean. I suppose I am saying that at some point the hygiene may improve somewhat, though I am not sure anything I did was responsible.

What I would urge you to do though is get a diagnosis if possible as it did help DS2 in terms of extra time for exams and more support in Sixth Form. He does have a good job and lives independently.

Absolutely pursue a diagnosis. In our area school can refer. It takes ages though. But will help her so much both to understand herself and going forwards.

Teeth - yes different toothpastes/brushes.

Google sensory or autistic AND then the issue youre looking st teeth/self csre/showering when looking for suggestions.

This is my 12yo too who is definitely not autistic. I take away her dirty clothes so she has to change and she has a reminder on her phone to wash. I insist she baths every night so she doesn't disturb her sibs later. In her case she is going through a 'appearance doesn't matter it's what's inside that counts' stage. It's exhausting.

Corona those are great ways to deal with it!

Its really hard isnt it. I was sold the "appearances don't matter" thing in a big way (what's inside that counts etc.) I've grappled with it as an adult holding those ideas in tension.

I have a child with ASD who told me once (luckily highly verbal) that water feels like needles on his skin, that the transition of getting in and out of the shower was almost impossible to go through.
We managed to get a two times per week routine going, now that he is almost an adult, and he visits the dental hygienist regularily.
He cuts those strands of hair that annoy him with his nail scissors and he absolutely does not care what he looks like.

@gingerandsmall

I have ASD and recognise every point in your OP as something I could have done at her age. I was also a perfectionist with my school work which took up all my ability to function - I didn't have the brain space to manage things like caring for myself.

Sensory issues can explain why she's reluctant to do all of those things, even wearing clean clothes. Clean clothes are almost unbearable. School uniform is a sensory nightmare! Plus bathing/showering, brushing teeth, doing hair etc have executive function demands on top of the sensory challenges.

If she's putting all of her effort into managing school work, fitting in socially, and masking other difficulties at school, the self care tasks just become completely unmanageable.

Nagging, shouting, and punishing just made me more resistant. The only thing that helped was my mum being gently supportive and helping with the mental load of tasks like showering when I was ready and having the pressure reduced in other areas of my life (ie having support in school).

It's really worth looking up 'Stress Bucket'

This! ^^

Tripple this 🙂

I would break this one down into manageable chunks. My 14 year old DS is not autistic but he has ADHD traits and finds organising himself a challenge. So I help.

The clean uniform one is easy. Remove the dirty uniform each night, and lay out clean pants, socks, shirt and trousers on the bottom of her bed or the bannister. It'll take you 30 seconds and means she just has to put the stuff on. She can't go fishing for the dirty stuff - you've removed it. I know you shouldn't have to do this etc etc but she clearly needs this little bit of help

Teeth? I'd back off for a few days and then I'd genuinely offer to do it for her. Just say ' want me to brush your teeth gently for you?' See what she says. I suspect it'll be a NO. So then say - calmly - ok, I'll just sit here and chat as you do it - Put the paste on the toothbrush for her if need be.

She clearly has issues surrounding her self care so my advice would be to help her with it for now to try and establish a routine.

@cracracatlady

Isn’t this just all teenagers. I make mine do all the stuff listed. Stinky, manky clothes etc, no phone. Simple

No it’s not. DS was a bit shower averse as a younger teen but would get in it after a bit of encouragement. Now he showers every day. He certainly cleaned teeth etc and never smelled. Not caring about appearance is sign of depression/anxiety - it’s on all the questionnaires. I would try to explore this route if I were the OP. It’s hard, but leave the nagging aside and try and find out if any else is going on.

I'm really struggling with my MH and although I appreciate so much of the advice -the posts saying that DD only real issues 'is her nagging shit mum' -or words to that affect. Pushed me over the edge. So we had a complete meltdown on Friday.

I've spoken to her old GP who happens to be a personal friend who has known her for nearly 10 years and also a massive sob to my new GP. Neither think she is autistic -just stubborn, lazy, teenager, and bloody minded to the nth degree. She talked early -and was bloody minded from the age of dot arguing about everything. But has said he will refer her in 4 weeks if nothing improves. Counsellor is going to talk to her about it. I've emailed her and she said she will explore with L.

We have agreed that the bum length hair that hasn't been cut for a year -needs to be. We have agreed to just below the shoulder. We have found an excellent local hairdresser. She has spoken to L and L said she wanted to have it cut to her chin and hairdresser suggested shoulder first and leave it 6 weeks and then cut off to chin if she still wanted.

The trauma is with my parents and my father is particular shouting at her when she had her hair cut 2 years ago saying 'ladies look better with long hair, boys with short' -the sexist arsehole. As well as our recent shitstorm with them. We talked about the fact -woman who have long hair -need time to look after it -washing etc and not many men have it. She hates tying it up -she said as it gives her headaches -another reason to have it cut.

I'm going from long hair to chin on Wednesday -hopefully that won't cause a problem with my bald patches. L is going to Shoulder length. If she hates it -she can grow it a bit longer but with a trim every 8-12 weeks -if she wants to cut it shorter -she can.

Since the GP spoke to her -she had brushed x2 a day both hair and teeth and washed her face at least once a day. I've done her a daily self care chart -it will be laminated at work on monday eg vitamin, wash face.
She had admitted it is not the water etc -but just she is lazy.

I don't know what to do about the alarm clock and her being able to sleep through fire alarms-but that's secondary.

I've told her (as always) feeling lazy -use the wipes but it must be done.

As I've said, many thanks to those that had good advice -but for others, please bare in mind that I'm a real person -I've done kind, I've done rewards, I've done the gentle chats, the reminder, the sharp reminder etc- it had gone way beyond that. This is a girl -who if I didn't said anything -would stay in the PJ all week at half term and do school work -but not get out of her PJ.

Yesterday we all went to beach -and she was complaining about her hair in the wind -and then said she was looking forward to it being cut. She's 14 and full of hormones -I get that. But my god the last 6 months have been too hard on me and her.

Signing off for now on this issue -but thanks for all the useful advice and those posters -who didn't blame me for being a crappy mother.

I had all this recently with a post about issues with my DD. Loads of good advice but loads of "what a shit parent you are" stuff too. I know exactly how you feel.

How I came to think of it is that these people are coming from a place of fear. They want to feel that because they did X, Y, Z that they'll never be in your position. Chances are half of them will be on here in six months time with some horrible situation asking for advice and will be told all about what they should have done differently. I only hope for them that's not the case but sadly no matter what we do, our children are individuals and what suits one may not suit another.

Take what's useful, ignore what's not.

Wishing you loads of luck xx