I'm a teenager so I couldn't care less about my appearance.......

[Iamaperiwinkle]

Major RANT alert.

This has been going on for at least 3 years. I throw massive wobbles about it to no effect. Have cried, shouted and now just feel I need to leave it alone and let her sort it out. But I'm worried about social services.

DD is 14. 14 years old and bright and social but can she

1. brush her teeth ?-nope -regularly they are yellow/ orange colour and disgusting. I nag every morning and every evening without fail. She would go over a week if I let her. Brought her a lovely new soft head electric toothbrush -she never uses it
2. wash her face or neck? -nope. Her face wash is x10 the price of mine. She got a lovely one from the body shop -took her out of the day. Brought new sponge, new face wash and a light cream -her neck is grey from the dirt
3. Clean school uniform? -nope. I brought her 7 tops, 7 jumpers, 7 trousers etc for school. She will regularly wear the same one day in and day out despite their being clean ones in her drawer
4. Brush or wash her Hair? -again nice conditioner and shampoo I have to 'force' her in the bath to wash it and she never ever brushes it -and it is long. She looks like she has been dragged through a hedge backwards. I threaten to take her to a hairdresser and she cries. Its awful
5. Nails -clean? No. Never washes her hands unless nagged to the moon. Writes on the back of her hand -it is there the next day. Never cuts her nails or looks after them
6. Does she smell clean? Nope -She smells- if I force her in the bath -once a week that a good week -she just doesn't clean herself at all it is gross.
7. Decent diet? Nope. She eats crap -thin as a rake -does she eat good food ?-nope. She'll eat crap all day.
8. Drink plenty of Water ?- nope. Buy her lovely water bottles -she leaves them at home, doesn't clean them and they have mould in them.

I ranted, shouted, tried to reward, brought her everything and more than she needs. I have cried my eyes out both this week and last week -it's a 3 year problem.

I don't know what else I can do??

This morning -got her up (she never wakes up even with an alarm clock -I have to go in her room with the alarm on full volume and scream at her to wake up so I'm already stressed!!) she has an hour. She did not brush her hair, teeth, wash her hair, put deo on or anything. No breakfast. Walked out of the house with her shoe laces undone looking like -I don't know. I cried. I got in the car and cried.

She said 'I'll wash and brush my hair when we get home' -that was an hour ago

Do I just give up??

I think it's best targeted one thing at a time. Pick your battle and stick to it. Then once that becomes routine, go for the next one.

Would a visual timetable help? Something tangible to see she has "achieved" every morning.

As she is so literal you can go down the explanation route. Why do we wash? To keep clean and reduce our chance of being ill. No need to mention the expectations of others, smells etc. You could talk about being a responsible person and part of that is to not smell, which helps with social relationships. Explain these may be ok now while she's at school, but later on they may get more complicated. Also when she works she will need to wash so it's best to get in good habits now.

Have you pursued a diagnosis?

Is she going to be assessed?

I was the same as a teen except my parent decided not to have any input. It was horrific tbh. I was subsequently diagnosed with autism as an adult so I can now see why I was like that. It took a lot of effort in my late teens/early 20s to get myself to a stage of regular showering etc. There is some good advice on here OP in terms of how to move on but I do think it's important you ask for that referral of you don't already have it. I find having things written down, a planner, helps me massively even now (not for washing but for anything out of usual routine) so that might be a good place to start. Start very small, too much will make her overwhelmed.

@iamaperiwinkle I am a bit Spock like in my approach to things practical with neuro diversity, but I have found that removing the gigantic amount of normative external and life clutter for a kid and concentrating on them gaining pure self care and a manageable room and life space works.

I wish you and your most beloved little scruff all the absolute best. Given proactive 'things' space and support she will likely thrive tidily and self caringly and feel much more able to occupy the time and space she needs to self care.

It is so often about being 'overwhelmed' by so many things for these kids. Love to you as an Aspergers Mom to a neuro diverse scrufflington.

I was your daughter as a teenager. I was diagnosed with autism last year.

I'm not sure what to suggest as my parents also despaired of me. I got bullied at school because I smelled. That still didn't make me take care of myself.

Have you tried a visual timetable? A routine of what she needs to do when she gets up in the morning, gets home from school, before she goes to bed etc.

Reminding her that in 10 minutes or whatever she needs to have a shower.

I started to get better once I got to about 16 and went to 6th form and discovered boys. I still wasn't great but showered regularly at least.

I'm 45 now and still sometimes have trouble with self care, but I'm aware enough now to know when I go out in public I need to wash first!

I absolutely don't recommend charts and rewards and rotas over the age of 6
Neuro diverse kids thrive in having downtime and space to configure their needs and choices on their terms with adult conversation that supports their sense of life being manageable or not for them.

This seems to have come round to OP strongly feeling there is a neurodiverse presentation which wasn’t really mentioned in the first post - hence all the replies which OP is finding unhelpful.

It feels like a thorough assessment of your daughter is essential here. One neurodiverse person is not necessarily like another. The issues could be around feeling overloaded, they could be more sensory, no one on the internet can know. You need a proper assessment, formulation and recommendations of your daughter to help shift things to a healthier balance for you all.

I say this kindly OP, I can only imagine how hard this is.

My son is similar, he simply won’t shower and is 18 now. If left to his own devices he would go weeks without washing, though he does brush his teeth. I too suspect he is on the spectrum. He’s about to finish school and I fear for his future. A couple of years ago he tried to commit suicide on the way to school, totally out of the blue. I try to back off now and not pressure him but do insist on a shower once a week. If left to his own devices (tried this in the holidays) he just won’t shower at all.

She might be 14, but strategies that you would use with a younger child might help:

Social stories - literally make a book about why we brush our teeth. The idea is to present information in a very clear way, not to emotionally blackmail her into doing it. So 'When teeth are not cleaned, they get cavities, which are painful'. Not 'Nobody likes people with dirty teeth and smelly breath'.
Reduce the expectations - baby wipes under the arms are better than nothing
Organise her clean clothes for the next day for her, so they are the only clothes available when she gets up
Get a sensory friendly uv tooth cleaner: uvtoothbrush
Good luck!

Op, sending good vibes your way - you're clearly a loving mum and come across as a great parent so please don't feel bad bc of a few responses her. It's very easy to make suggestions or comments as an outsider, the lived experience is going to be very different.

I agree with pp the ASD and possibly ADHD seemed like strong possibilities and think you've had a lot of excellent advice here.

Just take it easy and give it time to percolate if you're feeling a bit overwhelmed by it all.

Are you in a position to have your dd privately assessed? If you're fortunate enough to do so and kick off therapy/treatment that way it might be really helpful.

Also - as a non SEN expert (so prepared to be told this is the wrong approach) can you use the carrot approach? If she loves reading advanced maths can implement a rule that she can only do so (beyond homework) if she's done the minimum self care?

Maybe something like 20 mins for brushing her teeth, 20 mins for her hair?

Also I knew a little girl once who'd scream the place down when her hair was brushed, she couldn't tolerate it. Eventually her parents found an anti tangle conditioning spray that they'd gently work through with fingers and maybe a wide tooth comb in the evenings. I don't know what its called but maybe hairdressers can advise?

If she finds these tasks stressful and overwhelming would it help for her to do them while watching or listening to something she enjoys or finds relaxing? It might provide a useful distraction and also help to remain relaxed if sensory issues are too much.

You'll get there op, and your dd will be ok

@Iamaperiwinkle I started a thread recently about a totally unrelated topic but to do with my dd and the advice sent my head spinning too. What some felt was good advice, others hated, and visa versa.

It feels an absolute head fuck but I considered every opinion and went with what felt right in my gut after which, overall, the different perspectives were very helpful. Try to see it as that rather than prescriptive do-this-do-that

My mum walked up behind my smelly brother and broke an egg on his head. After much shouting he had to get in the shower, but used hot water so the egg scrambled. By the time he had got the scrambled egg out of his hair he was really clean. These days you would probably be done for child abuse though.

Mint toothpaste burns my mouth, try a kids one? Tesco do strawberry and Asda/sainsburys do a fruit one. Adult fluoride levels too

Hey op I thought I'd just chime in here with my two cents.

Your daughter sounds amazing and you sound like an amazing caring mum. The fact that she's doing well At school and teachers and friends love her is great. Very refreshing to hear she gives no fucks about what people think... good for her

If she was older I would maybe let her get on with it (unless I suspected autism) but as she's only 14 she's your responsibility but I would really choose my battles because it sounds super stressful trying to keep on top of her so I would personally just focus on the teeth brushing because the last thing she'll want is rotting teeth whether she cares now or not. I'd also keep deodorant by the door but again it's not the biggest crime to not wear it and stink

My dd12 is also rather slobby. Long hair doesn't get brushed... she ends up with massive matted knots all the time. She wouldn't have a bath if I didn't tell her to. She doesn't care about washing although she does care about her appearance. It took a long time to get her to routinely use deodorant.

I see a PP has said that ‘rewards’ don’t work. However, following advice from an ASD Support Teacher, we have had recent success with a points-system that is linked to earning an expensive item that my DD wants. She can also cash-in points for smaller items , if she chooses. We have drawn up a list of positive behaviours and points- we’ve had issues about getting up and being on time for school and tidying up. These are incentivised with a lot of points. We write it down in a book, as a visual record is effective but obviously it needs to be age-appropriate. I have also been advised that my 14 year old, despite her academic ability, is operating at 2/3 of her chronological age in some emotional aspects - if your DD has suffered trauma then this could apply too, whether or not there is any neurodiversity.
Also, if your daughter is very intelligent, do you think reading about the scientific/ health-related/ logical implications would make more of an impact on her than the emotional appeals?

The trick is not to look at books being away until x is done, or dinner is after you've done y as "withholding".

It's about setting an easy to manage routine and removing distractions.

Focus on positive language. It's a now and next type routine which is extremely effective for autistic people.

Now is getting washed and brushing teeth. Next is clean clothes - then it's books.

Because it's a reward at the end it's a motivation and by not having free access to them you remove the distraction.

If your child was watching you tube instead of doing these things you'd take an iPad until they are done.

Same with dinner.

First we wash and put on clean lounge wear - then we eat dinner.

Don't make it "if you don't do x you can't have y". That's negative.

It's about setting routines and positive language and boundaries.

It's hard work. I know it is - my ds is 16 now so I've been doing this for many years.

However I now look back to even 3 years ago and have to pinch myself at how far we've come

This was me around her age - hated developing, couldn't bring myself to shower/wash hair. I couldn't really tell you why

I'm quite possibly high functioning autistic ...

P.s. op, you've probably already tried this but have you looked at deodorants that only need applying every 2 or 3 days? Generally worn at night, just make sure skin is completely dry before application or they sting like mad.

Maybe just focus on getting her to do one thing? Teeth brushing perhaps as that will coarse damage if not done. The rest leave her to it for a while be see if a routine with one thing helps with the others.

OP I feel for you. You're doing your best. Ignore the diet stuff for now but hygiene wise keep cracking on. It's worth every nag and chasing up. You've got her best interests at heart. Keeping clean is essential in so many ways, especially at this age and going forward.

She sounds a lot like my youngest son. He is Autistic. He was terrified of water practically from birth. Showers are hell trying to get him to take one. Washing hair, omg. He is 17 and I still have to wake him for school too. He has even had to have a root canal done because he did not take good enough care of his teeth. He would wear the same clothes daily if I did not insist on him changing each day (USA so not wearing uniforms to school). Some things we have compromised is lots of baby wipes to clean with between showers, dry shampoo for use between washing his hair. I have insisted on him washing his hair on Sunday nights and he uses the dry shampoo (some times) on other days when needed. I completely sympathize, I know how hard it all it.

This is my 16 yr old son to a tee apart from the being highly academic.
He is so obviously not NT but due to the sheer lack of resources and the fact that he has another condition I can get anywhere near CAMHS for an assessment.

His teeth are permanently orange, he stinks of BO and he dangerous with his medical care (needles for insulin etc)
No hand hygiene post bathroom visits.

Because he has no diagnosis I've never gotten anywhere with support on how to approach the whole growing up thing. I've resigned myself to the fact that he'll have to live here as an adult and I'll have to still be responsible for everything.

I don't know the answers, like you I've tried everything I can think of and nothing works. He can't join the dots to make actions/consequences make sense and in his head everything is great.

I know someone else who has a teen DD who is just like this - she had a diagnosis of ASD. They then also diagnosed her with PDA - Pathological Demand Avoidance. Might be worth speaking to your GP.

Hi op, you have my sympathies, I have a dd who has asd and is also not bothered about her appearance (that much). I have a few suggestions:

1. Teeth - non negotiable. Take her to the dentist and get them to explain what will happen if she doesn't take good care of them.

Make sure she brushes them thoroughly twice a day. My dd went through a habit or pretending she had brushed them, even rubbing toothpaste around the sink! She lost her precious phone and Youtube for a week and I stood and watched her whilst she brushed them (always brushes them now).

If your dd refuses, no phone, wifi etc.

1. Showering - Dd has a bath every night, i found out she didn't like the shower because of the noise etc.

A bath seems to help her sleep also. I explained to dd that it's not fair for herself or others to be smelly, and people will notice and comment on it.

1. Clothes- I lay dds clothes out every morning to ensure she wears fresh ones otherwise she'd probably wear the same pair of socks for a week! Dirty clothes are straight in the washer so she can't be lazy and grab them off the floor.

1. Hair - Maybe ask if she'd like a new cut, a few highlights? If not suggest she at least brushes it to avoid matting.

Everything else I'd probably ignore for now. With repetition she'll hopefully get the message that it's easier to brush her teeth for 2 minutes than be nagged constantly!

I understand your frustration, dd went through a period of not even wiping her bottom after going to the toilet. I remember crying thinking why wouldn't she do such a simple task. Turns out it was just laziness, pulling her up everytime soon solved it.

Good luck op, teens are tough!

Op you haven’t failed. You really haven’t x

Hard going for you OP
I only have boys. Up to 14 i had to nag them into shower then bingo they changed and in their early 30s are doing it everyday. I sneaked in and took out their clothes at night to make them change. Its an age thing i nagged them day and night. Now with their own children they shower them before bed. Teeth cleaning was always part of their daily care and insist it with their own kids. Sometimes it just takes time.