I'm a teenager so I couldn't care less about my appearance.......

[Iamaperiwinkle]

Major RANT alert.

This has been going on for at least 3 years. I throw massive wobbles about it to no effect. Have cried, shouted and now just feel I need to leave it alone and let her sort it out. But I'm worried about social services.

DD is 14. 14 years old and bright and social but can she

1. brush her teeth ?-nope -regularly they are yellow/ orange colour and disgusting. I nag every morning and every evening without fail. She would go over a week if I let her. Brought her a lovely new soft head electric toothbrush -she never uses it
2. wash her face or neck? -nope. Her face wash is x10 the price of mine. She got a lovely one from the body shop -took her out of the day. Brought new sponge, new face wash and a light cream -her neck is grey from the dirt
3. Clean school uniform? -nope. I brought her 7 tops, 7 jumpers, 7 trousers etc for school. She will regularly wear the same one day in and day out despite their being clean ones in her drawer
4. Brush or wash her Hair? -again nice conditioner and shampoo I have to 'force' her in the bath to wash it and she never ever brushes it -and it is long. She looks like she has been dragged through a hedge backwards. I threaten to take her to a hairdresser and she cries. Its awful
5. Nails -clean? No. Never washes her hands unless nagged to the moon. Writes on the back of her hand -it is there the next day. Never cuts her nails or looks after them
6. Does she smell clean? Nope -She smells- if I force her in the bath -once a week that a good week -she just doesn't clean herself at all it is gross.
7. Decent diet? Nope. She eats crap -thin as a rake -does she eat good food ?-nope. She'll eat crap all day.
8. Drink plenty of Water ?- nope. Buy her lovely water bottles -she leaves them at home, doesn't clean them and they have mould in them.

I ranted, shouted, tried to reward, brought her everything and more than she needs. I have cried my eyes out both this week and last week -it's a 3 year problem.

I don't know what else I can do??

This morning -got her up (she never wakes up even with an alarm clock -I have to go in her room with the alarm on full volume and scream at her to wake up so I'm already stressed!!) she has an hour. She did not brush her hair, teeth, wash her hair, put deo on or anything. No breakfast. Walked out of the house with her shoe laces undone looking like -I don't know. I cried. I got in the car and cried.

She said 'I'll wash and brush my hair when we get home' -that was an hour ago

Do I just give up??

I can see both sides of this. You must feel desperate - it oozes from your post.

But the unrelenting nagging, screaming, crying mother must be hell for your DD, too. I couldn’t bear it.

I do feel as if you need to get to the root of the issue. Because it feels as if you’re trying to address the symptoms of the issue and getting nowhere.

Could you try writing out a daily shower program, listing steps she needs to take to have a good productive shower. Ending with something she sees as a reward. If she has ASD this might help. Also if autism is a factor, make shower time the exact same time every evening (perhaps dinner then shower then dessert)

Sympathies. It's hard isn't it. Would love to tell you it stops magically at 16 but I'm still nagging at 22. Dd is autistic but quite capable of most things, just not self care - I could have written this post!

You sound exactly like my mum when I was a teenager. I had a really bad relationship thanks to my mums constant nagging and criticism, daily about my hair, washing my face, drawing on my hands etc. She's only 14, leave her be, I'm sure more interest and care in her appearance will come but your attitude towards her habits atm I don't think will help anything. You sound like you shame her which will not be making her feel good if she already doesn't feel the need to bother with her appearance.

Maybe back off and try complimenting her instead.

I'm 35 and my mum still comments on my appearance, and it still pisses me off.

@lljkk

These things aren't causing problems in her life. Why should she change?

The only problem she has from this situation is a nagging mother.

I disagree, people always remember the dirty unkept child it could blight your life

@lljkk

These things aren't causing problems in her life. Why should she change?

The only problem she has from this situation is a nagging mother.

Don't be ridiculous. Parents can't allow their children to neglect themselves like that.

Honestly I wouldn't be allowing that. No ones personal hygiene should be this bad. If its not causing her problems at school etc I would be very surprised, and anyone who is advocating the OP "let her get on with it" obviously isn't thinking how they would feel if it was their child.
She would have everything taken off her in my house until she started cleaning herself.

I have ASD and recognise every point in your OP as something I could have done at her age. I was also a perfectionist with my school work which took up all my ability to function - I didn't have the brain space to manage things like caring for myself.

Sensory issues can explain why she's reluctant to do all of those things, even wearing clean clothes. Clean clothes are almost unbearable. School uniform is a sensory nightmare! Plus bathing/showering, brushing teeth, doing hair etc have executive function demands on top of the sensory challenges.

If she's putting all of her effort into managing school work, fitting in socially, and masking other difficulties at school, the self care tasks just become completely unmanageable.

Nagging, shouting, and punishing just made me more resistant. The only thing that helped was my mum being gently supportive and helping with the mental load of tasks like showering when I was ready and having the pressure reduced in other areas of my life (ie having support in school).

It's really worth looking up 'Stress Bucket'

@SaturdayRocks

I can see both sides of this. You must feel desperate - it oozes from your post.

But the unrelenting nagging, screaming, crying mother must be hell for your DD, too. I couldn’t bear it.

I do feel as if you need to get to the root of the issue. Because it feels as if you’re trying to address the symptoms of the issue and getting nowhere.

@FourTurnings

She does sound unusually disinterested in personal hygiene OP and I feel for you as it must be very stressful. I’ve worked with teenagers for years and had my own. Yes they might be a bit like this but not to the extent you describe. What I would say though Is that most teenage issues that cause concern turn out to be a phase. You can only do so much. Talking to the school might be a good idea.

School think she is wonderful.

The SEN is so transparent to me, she has an IEP for some medical issues etc. She latched on the messages at primary school as 'we shouldn't judge people for what they look like -it doesn't matter' and took it literally. She takes everything literally. So if people make fun of her -she really doesn't care.

She had surgery on her face 2 years ago and had to follow a detailed look after skin formula -but she was a total bugger about it. Even now -she has more scarring then she needed, honestly I tried but she had a cream for morning, noon and night and she never did it in school and they said they couldn't force her as she was 11. She is supposed to apply a cream daily and doesn't. The alarm clock wakes me through a think wall and shut door but not her. During lockdown she was happy to stay in her PJ all day every day and would have done for weeks if I let her.

She says her friends don't care. She has friends. But they really don't seem to care and accept her for who she is. She fun to be around, very bright, always right etc and bang on the money with an answer for everything. She doesn't do 'bullying' although she gets some (not for the non cleaning aspect) -most of her friends think she is cool for being so bright. Teachers love her. She very obsessed with NOT cutting her hair -I want it short so less to clean and brush etc -but she cries at the thought of having it cut. She'd much rather have her head in an A level Maths books or University Level Maths books then brush her teeth. When we move I will look at the bathroom and try to get one big enough to do it alongside her if I can. But I mainly now just think I have failed.

Tonight after asking her 24 times to brush her teeth -she has finally gone and washed her face. But not brushed her teeth. So I have frog marched her in and she starts screaming at me 'please mum let me do it' but then sits and doesn't do it. She hold the brush and looks at it.

Her siblings just get on and do it without being asked.

I talked with her about any easier hair cut and shorter hair and she just cries.

Please be gentle with me -I'm low and exhausted. And this is hurting me badly too!

If you suspect ASD (my ds is autistic) I'd go for a timetable approach.

It's easy to create something like a table on word etc and print it.

Have alarm same time daily, shower and teeth at same time, change to bed clothes and put clothes in wash daily at same time.

During lockdown I noticed my ds hygiene was getting bad again and he was forgetting personal care tasks.

After a chat with him it turned out because he could wake later/ didn't have swimming/ was learning online etc he felt totally out of control without a routine. He just couldn't manage to remember it all when it was different and his routine didn't give him hints what came next.

We wrote another plan out together.

Ds couldn't give a shit what others think of him so that isn't a motivator. However germs and thought if fillings at a dentist and taking medication are so you have to find that motivator and the thing that will make them do it.

What about showering or bath before evening meal - she can't eat until she's clean?
Won't she get up for school because she likes school so perhaps don't wake her up and see what happens.
Could a teacher speak to her or just chat to her and bring up untidyness and make suggestions.

Have you asked her why she won't do it ? I've asd and brushing my teeth makes me gag and sometimes throw up, showering is also rough it's wet , warm, too many smells and then you have to get out and your cold. Would she have a sink wash with a non scented product? I was the same with hair brushing as a child, I absolutely hated it and would scream.

This may sound cruel but I'd go for having a basket/box for all her books etc she loses herself in.

Tell her she can have it when she's done tasks and also have that on timetable.

By remixing the obsessions from my da it certainly helps because he can't function with them available because he obsesses. It's like an addiction.

It also give positive motivation. "Yes you can have your x when you've done y"

I do feel as if you need to get to the root of the issue. Because it feels as if you’re trying to address the symptoms of the issue and getting nowhere.

I agree.

You need to get to the underlying reason for these difficulties. It may well be that she's expending a huge amount of mental effort just surviving the demands placed on her by school and has nothing left for self-care.

Shouting and crying at are are just likely to further erode her salf-esteem and make it harder for her to do what you want. It's clearly not working anyway so I would strongly suggest you stop doing it.

I would look for opportunities to reduce her mental load and support her self-esteem instead of your current approach which is probably increasing her mental load and undermining her self-esteem.

She sounds a bright girl. I would consider booking her in a a good salon for her hair trimmed ( her choice of length) for a good wash and blow dry. I think sometimes seeing the potential of their hair makes them take care of it.

I would also look to try the dental disclosure tablets to see what she is doing to her teeth. It's fun to do and slightly horrifying

With clothing and showering, it's not negotiable every day something new as wearing the same shirt everyday will wreck it.

Go shopping and her get some new clothes as it's the summer and opening up. Choosing a few nice things can make you feel better.

The lockdown I'm sure has something to do with this as there was no urgency to get dressed etc.

I hope it improves for both of you

My goodness that sounds hard. The three things that spring to mind are a) autism, b) depression or c) that she’s been harmed by someone and is trying to keep potentially abusive people at bay through poor hygiene.

This isn’t normal teenage at her age and I think you are right to encourage hygiene. Can you do a timetable of rules for the whole family? “We all clean our teeth twice a day”, “we wear clean underwear daily”, “We shower x times a week” and then attach incentives to doing it? Pocket money, take away, cinema - anything really that appeals to her?

So school thinks she is ok, her GP thinks she is ok and she thinks she is ok. What do you think frog marching the poor girl to the toilet is doing to her. Best let her be, she is 14 not 4.

@SaturdayRocks

I can see both sides of this. You must feel desperate - it oozes from your post.

But the unrelenting nagging, screaming, crying mother must be hell for your DD, too. I couldn’t bear it.

I do feel as if you need to get to the root of the issue. Because it feels as if you’re trying to address the symptoms of the issue and getting nowhere.

It feels unrelenting, nagging and stressful for me. Not for her. She shrugs and ignores me.

Believe you me, I take myself into a different room when I get irate and I try so hard to ask, gently and nicely.

And she has always been bad -hated the bath as a baby. It was so bloody stressful it was once a week in the bath at the most, she saw a doctor then and some of her medical needs were diagnosed. She screamed like she was being murdered in the bath, even with me, even holding her, bath toys etc. So didn't like water -and believe me I tried everything. Eventually it was wipes and lots of gentleness but she's bigger than me now. She's come a long way looking at from that point of view.

I've offered her face wipes, we spent all day one day finding a face cleaner.

I've asked the counsellor to explore it.

I gently remind. I ask nicely. I remind. We talk about why. And then it gets to a tipping point like today or indeed last Wednesday. I'm sorry if that makes me an horrific mothers but it is destroying my peace and home life. If I stop and let it go, home life is fine, she goes out with hair in huge knots, face gray, teeth orange, and doesn't seem to give a fig. So at times this is what I have done. But it is really bad to sit in the car with someone and they stink. Or she comes for a cuddle and I cuddle her and I'm trying not to say something about her smell or breath. I'm really NOT a shit mum.

She's just told me she will have her hair cut, but I really feel for her and I haven't pressured her into this decision -so I've told her to think about it carefully and even if it is shorter. She still needs to wash and brush it.

Please can I ask you are gentle with me too? I'm going through a tough time too! Advice welcome -but don't judge me please until you've lived as me for a week or more.

I had the same - DD (now 15) was quite happy not to was at 13/14.
She would even go into the bathroom, put the shower on and pretend she was having a shower I knew this as the bath would be stone dry afterwards.
She had BO and never put clothes in the wash.
Now....
It's better - in fact we nag her about spending too long in the shower
She still won't put clothes in the wash but it's better!

@Quincie

What about showering or bath before evening meal - she can't eat until she's clean? Won't she get up for school because she likes school so perhaps don't wake her up and see what happens. Could a teacher speak to her or just chat to her and bring up untidyness and make suggestions.

Yes this is an option the first bit.

So I don't wake her up -and what leave her at home until 9am?

When I'm off to work. Her form tutor has spoken to her. As her tutor says -with masks on it's tough too see her teeth etc.

I love my daughter VERY VERY much she is 100% not abused. Despite the trauma we all went through -she had counselling and is having some more -she almost takes a matter of fact approach. The counsellor didn't seem to think she has depression (or a shit mother!) but more of an SEN problem.

My ds has just been diagnosed as adhd (inattentive) aged 21. Some of the questions for diagnosis were around an inability to maintain personal hygiene as a child. My ds was not picked up at a younger age as he too is intelligent and managed to get by. Apparently girls cover it better than boys too. Just another avenue of thought for you. Wishing you well.

@newstart1337

So school thinks she is ok, her GP thinks she is ok and she thinks she is ok. What do you think frog marching the poor girl to the toilet is doing to her. Best let her be, she is 14 not 4.

Her GP thinks that the not getting washed is a 'typical teenager' he knows she has traits of autism and know about the trauma and he strongly suspects she is autistic.

So after a week of her not brushing her teeth -I leave it -yes? leave her teeth rot and fall over or her screaming in pain from a tooth infection?

Sounds to me like she is rebelling, maybe against the stereo typical, I would try and over look her appearance issues, hard as it is l know, for now and just focus on areas she is doing well on. I am sure within the next year things will have turned around. Try and accept her fully for who she is right now, and that's where the changes will take place. It sounds like she is really bright and intelligent, maybe she feels that's not enough. Teenagers just want to feel valued and an important member of the family, l can thoroughly understand your concerns but try looking at it another way, she's certainly not a sheep, following the herd, l think she is deliberately not trying to fit in and that takes some courage at that age.

Self care. It is all about approaching the value of self care from a massively logical standpoint.
I used to tell my ADHD son
'You look as though nobody loves you.'
He wanted to know what I meant by that.
I explained about self care and parental care and why it mattered to me as his parent and to him as a human individual that needs to learn to self care going forward beyond youth and a given amount of sloppy self care and health.
Your daughter needs to know two things.
Thing 1 is cultural in that people who are not friends will think she is not loved by her family or care giving people if she represents as dirty and unkempt.
How does this make her feel?
Thing 2
Is that 'self care' is a de-marker of self acceptance, independent ability and self love.
The conversation being...
How are parents able to 'let go' and trust a child of their home is an adult, if not serious about self care giving and self love being partially about clean teeth, clean clothes and self care that does not lead to tooth decay, anti social smelling and looking as though they are incapable of self love.
Even if they feel very self loving on other levels, bad hygiene can have a poor life outcome, show actual life examples of it and be logical.

Arguable logic....

To not do the practicals of self love is not actualized self care and people will notice. Argument being 'We are your parents who love you and WE have noticed that you are failing to self care, so what do you expect out there in the world if you continue to fail to self care practically?'

'Do you think people will notice and why do you think people notice and judge a lack of practical and physical self care?'

Do you think a lack of physical self care can ever have an impact on health and life? Show examples of where this happens in society and how.

Personally I would prioritise her teeth and hygiene. Unbrushed but clean hair is not particularly offensive; poor diet and water intake isn't great but the lack of washing would stress me out and could cause very real issues! Could you make her a dentist appointment and explain to the dentist beforehand the problems you're having so they could really hammer home the necessity of good oral hygiene? I'd also combine, if you can, some of these tasks e.g put some toothpaste on a toothbrush in the shower so it's there for her to use, maybe buy her those all in one man-wash type things so it's just one product for body and hair. Reduce the number of products and tasks so it's maybe less overwhelming? Of course you still have the battle to get her in the shower but then once she's out she's hopefully fully clean and teeth are brushed (it sounds as if even once a day tooth brushing would be an improvement). Do routines help? Maybe a shower every day at the same time. Set a timer 10/20/30 minutes before so she has a visual prompt that that's how long she has before she needs to get in. A reward afterwards or maybe after a full week of showers or something. Clean clothes....I mean I'd be more concerned about her being clean than her clothes so maybe I'd not worry too much about this until you've tackled the personal hygiene, but would laying out a clean outfit help when you go to wake her? Take the old stuff and put it in the washing machine at the same time. I know this seems like extra for you but she does sound like she needs help and, as I said, I wouldn't worry about some of the other stuff as much.