I'm a teenager so I couldn't care less about my appearance.......

[Iamaperiwinkle]

Major RANT alert.

This has been going on for at least 3 years. I throw massive wobbles about it to no effect. Have cried, shouted and now just feel I need to leave it alone and let her sort it out. But I'm worried about social services.

DD is 14. 14 years old and bright and social but can she

1. brush her teeth ?-nope -regularly they are yellow/ orange colour and disgusting. I nag every morning and every evening without fail. She would go over a week if I let her. Brought her a lovely new soft head electric toothbrush -she never uses it
2. wash her face or neck? -nope. Her face wash is x10 the price of mine. She got a lovely one from the body shop -took her out of the day. Brought new sponge, new face wash and a light cream -her neck is grey from the dirt
3. Clean school uniform? -nope. I brought her 7 tops, 7 jumpers, 7 trousers etc for school. She will regularly wear the same one day in and day out despite their being clean ones in her drawer
4. Brush or wash her Hair? -again nice conditioner and shampoo I have to 'force' her in the bath to wash it and she never ever brushes it -and it is long. She looks like she has been dragged through a hedge backwards. I threaten to take her to a hairdresser and she cries. Its awful
5. Nails -clean? No. Never washes her hands unless nagged to the moon. Writes on the back of her hand -it is there the next day. Never cuts her nails or looks after them
6. Does she smell clean? Nope -She smells- if I force her in the bath -once a week that a good week -she just doesn't clean herself at all it is gross.
7. Decent diet? Nope. She eats crap -thin as a rake -does she eat good food ?-nope. She'll eat crap all day.
8. Drink plenty of Water ?- nope. Buy her lovely water bottles -she leaves them at home, doesn't clean them and they have mould in them.

I ranted, shouted, tried to reward, brought her everything and more than she needs. I have cried my eyes out both this week and last week -it's a 3 year problem.

I don't know what else I can do??

This morning -got her up (she never wakes up even with an alarm clock -I have to go in her room with the alarm on full volume and scream at her to wake up so I'm already stressed!!) she has an hour. She did not brush her hair, teeth, wash her hair, put deo on or anything. No breakfast. Walked out of the house with her shoe laces undone looking like -I don't know. I cried. I got in the car and cried.

She said 'I'll wash and brush my hair when we get home' -that was an hour ago

Do I just give up??

It feels unrelenting, nagging and stressful for me. Not for her. She shrugs and ignores me.

That only means she isn't communicating her emotions, not that she feels fine about it.

So I don't wake her up -and what leave her at home until 9am?

That would mean that the one source of self-esteem she may have is disrupted and part of her life that she puts most effort into becomes an additional source of failure and stress. Please don't do this. If she has ASD, it won't work and she will just be less able to cope than she is now.

I'd not worry about her diet for now, there are bigger fish to fry. With the clothes just remove the dirty clothes from her bedroom every day so she has to use the clean clothes. If she has long hair that she struggles to wash or brush then it needs to be cut into a more manageable style, although how to persuade a teenager of this I don't know. Concentrate on the teethbrushing and washing.

I throw massive wobbles about it to no effect. Have cried, shouted
I ranted, shouted, tried to reward, brought her everything and more than she needs. I have cried my eyes out both this week and last week - it's a 3 year problem.
I have to go in her room with the alarm on full volume and scream at her to wake up so I'm already stressed!!
I cried. I got in the car and cried.

I don't know how much this is exaggeration for comic effect or an actual admission of how you are behaving. I can see how hard this must be but you maybe need to take a deep breath and try a different approach because the current one isn't working. You say you've been through some trauma, that has probably informed both your DD and your behaviour. Have you had any family therapy to help you both deal with the trauma or could you ask the GP or school to help you access some therapy or a parenting course (not saying you're a bad parent, but it might be helpful to add some more parenting techniques to your repertoire, particularly if your daughter is autistic since what will work with an NT child won't necessarily work with an autistic child). If the GP isn't taking your concerns about your DD seriously ask to see another GP. Get school onside and explain the issues and what your plan is. Keep pushing and pushing so that you and your DD gets the help you both need.

Sorry - back again - my ds can't wake up in the mornings either. His alarm goes off, wakes the rest of the house up and he sleeps through. I can go in and speak to him, he answers but is still not awake. I will speak to him later and he has no recollection of the conversation. He also had very long hair until high school because he didn't want it cutting - half way down his back long but he would wash it.
Would it work to go into her bedroom once asleep and take her dirty clothes from that day? I'm sure however you must have thought of that.

Please don't use mealtimes as a punishment. Not letting her eat until she's clean is very cruel and as you say, her eating as poor as it is.

@TolkiensFallow

My goodness that sounds hard. The three things that spring to mind are a) autism, b) depression or c) that she’s been harmed by someone and is trying to keep potentially abusive people at bay through poor hygiene.

This isn’t normal teenage at her age and I think you are right to encourage hygiene. Can you do a timetable of rules for the whole family? “We all clean our teeth twice a day”, “we wear clean underwear daily”, “We shower x times a week” and then attach incentives to doing it? Pocket money, take away, cinema - anything really that appeals to her?

@TolkiensFallow has it right and I have actually referred a child to social services before for similar presentation.

You need to find a way of setting some minimum standards that are non-negotiable.

If she is very invested in her schoolwork then perhaps try to create a routine she comes in puts her dirty uniform in the washer and has a shower with a hair wash and brushes teeth before she can start her homework and have her dinner.

It sounds like getting her to do it once a day consistently would be an improvement on now, and whilst it might be ideal to do something in the morning holding the homework and books to ransoms might work.

I would pick your battles, and personally I would prioritise cleaning teeth, as teeth issues are expensive, life long and can even cause heart issues.

My dc same age is exactly the same. I supervise it all. I run the bath, get the toiletries out, put clean clothes out each morning, even underwear or socks. It’s still a battle and I mean screaming huge meltdowns when asked to do a single thing.

If I didn’t do it they wouldn’t get to school at all and they would certainly not be remotely clean or presentable.

There are diagnosed issues here though.

A lot of neuro diverse teens just get totally collapsed by the amount of mental and physical demands placed upon on them by life at the point that they are also going through a usually horrible sort of puberty.

Considerate and loving self care mantras from parents is an antidote to a lot of this, in the shape of 'let go' of some external shit and look after you sort of conversations.

I helped my 14 year old ADHD son get shot of two thirds of his clothes, all of his before 14 clutter in his room and let him drop rugby and other external curriculum stuff for skating and gaming and baths and home time.

He's now a 22 year old mining engineering graduate with a capsule wardrobe and room that is easy to keep tidy and under his control, who manages to eat well and cook for himself and friends and go to the tea tree facial wash to keep his skin under control.

Aged 14 he was a kid with a room full of every thing he had had from ten years old, a ton of clothes that he couldn't manage alone and massive pressure from every direction to do school sports, surf life saving, etc etc.

I removed all of it and made self care and free time and core education his THINGS.

He has done great on a 'things diet' and his self care is now excellent at 22.

There are so many things I recognise here- even down to the howling about having her hair cut!
Mine is 15, and yes, school think she's amazing (well, frankly, she is!) She gives 110% on everything, tries everything, is a complete Pollyanna personality etc.but the tears, meltdowns, and trauma we have had over the last 15 years...

I still wash and dry her hair for her- she cannot manage it herself, and I don't want her bullied for it, so I do it in term time. In holidays she "does" it herself (so it's always dull because even when it's clean, she cannot rinse it properly). Brushing teeth is absolutely non-negotiable, and has been since tiny. If they're not done twice a day there is absolutely no sweet food of any kind, and it has finally worked. Showers/baths/washing of some sort has to happen every day too, but as long as there's no smell a wash is fine (unless it was a games/pe day). She is different enough, so I cannot allow her to neglect herself, teenagers can be very cruel.

The absolutely no sense of humour thing is her too Lovely, lovely child, but cannot get jokes at all.
Thankfully I trained my two from very small that all dirty clothes go in the laundry hamper- she's a real rules follower, so would never break that one.

Good luck- you have my empathy. I am working v hard to get mine independent, as she is desperate to go away for university.

We are 3 years down the road. So I'm exhausted

From the DD's perspective -- all that is OP's problem.
From the DD's perspective -- the DD's only problem with her habits is an endlessly nagging parent.

OP has clearly said that her DD's habits cause zero problems that the DD can discern - except the nagging parent, and this is probably very minor (From the DD's perspective)

I'm a bit of a dragon about cleaning teeth but rest I would mostly shrug off. It's not potentially worth 3 years of exhaustion to me when it all causes zero problems otherwise.

OP had a long list of changes OP wants. Too many to hope to influence soon. Prioritise which battles.

Would a Bullet Journal style Habit Tracker worker for her? It might appeal to that part of her that values presentation in her written work.

Have you asked for an ASD assessment OP? Sorry if I missed where you said you have.. waiting lists are often long in camhs but if you can afford to go private it can be quicker.

Is she depressed? Or maybe she has another undiagnosed mental illness? She could be just lazy and a slob, or she could be ill.

My dd (13) is a bit like this. I don’t have advice but thought it might help to know other people in similar position. My daughter will go for a week or more without a shower if I didn’t insist. She will also wear dirty clothes and often ‘forgets’ to brush her teeth or wear deodorant! On the flip side she can spend ages curling her hair or putting make up on! She’ll spend ages on makeup on but wear the same hoody and leggings she slept in!!
What’s the point??bum hoping it’s a phase she will grow out of.

@lanatolater2

Please don't use mealtimes as a punishment. Not letting her eat until she's clean is very cruel and as you say, her eating as poor as it is.

Right. So ideas are tell her to get clean before her meal. Might work, might not. Another poster thinks this is cruel and child abuse. One poster thinks frog march her to the bathroom, another poster thinks this is treating her like a child. A poster suggest with-holding her books, another thinks this is abuse.

My brain hurts.

I shout and cry as a LAST resort. But it has been going on for years.

I do appreciate some of the advice on here -make a plan etc but I have tried very patiently most of it.

The best advice on here that I feel I could actually use is from @NeurodiverseMe she is like Dr Spock -so I need to wise up and 'attack' it from an intellectual point of view.

We've just had a good 'conversation' she's moved her clock closer to her bed, put her school clothes (fresh) out and go her school bag ready (as always) so fingers crossed. It's not going to be easy. But she needs to look self care and how others see things.

Apologies if I've focused in on one thing - but 7 x sets of school uniform seems a bit OTT to me (is she at school 7 days per week)? I get 5 x shirts/blouses plus 2 x jumpers and 2 x trousers but am confused about the requirement for more.....

This was me as a teenager. I was very depressed. Not diagnosed until early twenties. These days I couldn't sleep if I hadn't flossed my teeth.

I would make a calm but non negotiable daily routine.
Wake: teeth, face/neck, deodorant and brush hair.
In the door: uniform in washer
Before dinner: shower and face, hair washed every second day
After dinner: teeth

All of this printed off and put on the wall. Maybe make a table of it where they can be crossed off by you? Something meticulous to follow. Presented as non-negotiable basic house rules.

Don’t allow her to leave the house unless she’s done morning routine. No desert or prefered food unless evening routine followed. Sit there with her and watch her do it. If she gets upset, just sit patiently and wait. Don’t budge, don’t react. No books or anything until she’s done the latest routine. And get one of those plaque testers for once a week. It will be awful for a while but she will get used to it. If she doesn’t get the right habits now she never will, and it will harm her for life.

Teeth are the priority. Take her to the dentist and to see the hygienist. Most of the other problems can be fixed, but she's storing up huge health issues for herself in the future by not looking after her teeth. I would ignore the rest and go hell for leather on this one.

I agree with pp and would prioritise teeth brushing for now

Then washing

Sounds so hard

If you suspect asd then I don't think nagging is going to get things done.

You've mentioned baths a couple of times - do you only have a bath or do you also have a shower? If no shower, could you try getting a shower attachment for quicker washing? A handheld one might be better as she can control where water goes etc.

I would probably go for a supervised, timetabled approach as others have mentioned. So when she gets home she gets changed and gives you the clothes, brushes her teeth (maybe do yours at the same time) and has a very quick shower/bath. Hairwashing on scheduled days twice a week.

Rather than telling her "go and brush your teeth" can you make it more of a "we're going to brush our teeth now" and you both go to the bathroom?

I wouldn't stress about the haircut if it bothers her immensely. Maybe just a small trim and see how she feels afterwards. Will she let you brush her hair for her?

I can never remember my brother's precise asd spectrum "label" but if left to his own devices he would keep odd hours and only do what interests him. Certain things, particularly food exploration, have improved with age so as long as she eats enough to function I wouldn't worry.

It might help if you also write out an intellectual reason for each one?

E.g. teeth: about costs and pain associated with cavities, why fillings are harmful, the pain of getting a tooth removed
Shower: how she will get infections down there, sweat rubbing, body acne, potential issues when she has her period, etc if not kept clean

That sort of thing? So she understands the rationale. And I think it’s claps perfectly fine to tell her that while she might not mind smell, other people do and it is unfair of her to impose this on others

Has she said why she doesn’t want to at least brush her teeth?

I may have missed it

We've just had a good 'conversation' she's moved her clock closer to her bed, put her school clothes (fresh) out and go her school bag ready (as always) so fingers crossed. It's not going to be easy. But she needs to look self care and how others see things.

If her self-care issues are down to impaired executive function and the demands placed on her by school, this is unlikely to help. All that's happened is that she has agreed to an additional demand. Not succeeding in meeting that requirement is likely to further undermine her self-esteem.

You've talked a lot about then things you've bought her to encourage her but you haven't addressed the issue of what support you could give her.

I have an 18YO with ASD who is very academically able but often needs me to sit in the bathroom with her while she cleans her teeth. This is never so I can judge, nag, insist or disapprove. It's so I can support her by prompting her gently and being there as a positive, supportive presence who recognises how hard it is. My role is to make it easier for her to manage these tasks, not to threaten consequences or withhold things that help her.

Maybe try to think of her as a child with a developmental delay who needs help that others of her age don't. What she needs is meaningful support that makes her life easier and boosts her self-esteem.

My teenager won’t brush their teeth as ‘it hurts.’ So sensory issues.