Teenage son, stay or go?

[Gnicole]

I hope someone can help with my difficult decision. My 14 yr old son is literally driving me insane, he has no respect & cannot be told or made to do anything. He wants to live in my house like a bachelor doing exactly as he pleases. Ignores me, refuses to eat with me, refuses to go to bed, tells me to shut up. Everything I ask him to do just doesn’t get done, he requests nice things such as the latest trainers (£115) which I refuse to buy because of his awful behaviour and attitude. He refuses to wear the pair of trainers to purchased fo £40 (plain black Nike). It’s a battle everyday, I took his phone because I found he had recorded himself smoking & sent the videos on Snapchat asking friends if they want to join him. I’m constantly receiving emails & calls from school about his behaviour attitude & lack of respect. Doesn’t bother with school work, I’ve tried to help him find his interest but he’s simply too lazy to do anything. Yes he has always been lazy but it’s getting worse as he’s got older. It’s difficult to explain how awful life is & we live alone. There’s no one to intervene. I’ve tried speaking with social services and the school many times and getting nowhere. My dilemma is do I send him to live with his dad or continue with this suffering? Bearing in mind that his dad is all or nothing, he’s willing to take our son but will have a court order for full custody & I won’t get much of a look in from there on. His dad is not willing to co-parent with me but willing to take my son completely. I’m asking here for some advice because I would usually speak to my mum & my grandmother but I’ve lost them both last year to COVID. Feeling so lost & scared of making the wrong decisions but my son is breaking me. What do I do?

Yes, I would be sending him to live with his dad. At 14 though, he will get to say whether he wants to spend time with you though, it won't be up to his dad to make that decision. Maybe speak to a solicitor?

Thank you so much for your advice, I’ve been in turmoil over this. I spoke to his social worker yesterday & she kept trying to get me to believe his behaviour is completely normal & started giving me all sorts of scenarios such as “ what if he runs away when you send him to his dad? He wants to stay with you his mother & your rejecting him, it’s normal for a teenager to steal their phone back when you take it away, of course he’s not going to want to wear £40 trainers teenagers have their own style” I think I heard everything I didn’t expect from the social worker & a deputy head teacher from the school seem to agree with her. I feel like I’m losing my mind because I don’t see total disrespect from a 14 year old as normal, not when it’s consistent. I almost had a breakdown in December after my grandmother & mother’s funeral being two months apart & my son giving me hell. I’m not sending him to a children’s home I’m sending him to his dad so I can’t understand why I’m being made to feel like I’m making the most horrific decision & rejecting him. I just can’t cope, it’s killing me & running me down. I really have tried Reasoning with my son and speaking to him over and over but just not getting anywhere. Thank you for your advice again xx

I feel for you . Teenagers can be horrible and selfish. No excuse but could he be grieving too ? It’s so hard . If he goes to his dad at age 14 he will have a say if he sees you. I would say try it to allow yourself time to recover but let him know you are there for him . Good luck

Thank you
I know this sounds harsh but he doesn’t appear to be grieving as he doesn’t seem to care for example he was expelled from a school two days before my mum’s funeral. As if I didn’t have enough to deal with. All of this Destroyed me and pulled me down all of last year and I’ve spent this year trying to do things differently but I’m getting the same results from my son it’s pulling me down again to a very dark place. Thanks for your comments they are a help at this time xx

A different perspective here - I couldn't remotely imagine sending my 14 yo to a parent who won't facilitate contact / will do everything to block me.

I think that will feel like abandoning your DS.

I do really sympathise with your situation. It's extremely tough for you. Is there any possibility of more involvement from his dad, if you explain the situation, that would back you up? Is he involved now? If not, please don't consider sending your DS to live with him.

The social worker's advice sounds baffling, I agree. Sorry if I missed it - why has he a social worker?

I appreciate how hard it is (single mother, teenage children myself) but I think you've to stick with him. As hard as it is, you're his parent, the person he trusts.

Just read your last post OP. You are in the midst of grief (I'm so sorry for your loss) abs now is really not the time to make these decisions.

You would 'lose' another person close to you, in the scenario you describe.

Can you get help for yourself? Grief counselling?

Finally, about grief, it's likely that your DS was affected by the loss of his DGM & DGGM, but his way of showing it is problematic.

Does he want to live at his dad’s?
Will he be left to his own devices or will his dad be setting rules?
Perhaps he could go there for a short period so you can have some respite?
Does his dad play an active part in his life?

I don’t think it’s fair for his dad to say it’s all or nothing. Why won’t he co parent? What’s his involvement been to date?

You do sound at the end of your tether but remember abandonment does have very long consequences for many children and unfortunately if his dad isn’t willing to share custody your son will feel rejected.

How long has this behaviour been going on? Smoking is something lots of teenagers do (I know I did) as well as asking for expensive gifts. Not saying you should give in to him particularly when he’s being disrespectful but it doesn’t sound like his behaviour is ‘extreme’, more that (understandably) you’re grieving and at the end of your tether and don’t have any patience left for his attitude.

Please don't do this OP. I'm saying this as someone who did this very thing and have spent 2 years having counselling coming to terms with the loss of a child that is very much still alive but not a part of my life. I thought living with him was hell on earth but living without him is very much worse. I will admit that the household as a whole is a better place for his absence but at a cost to my mental health.

Why was he expelled from school?

Can you send him to his dads for the two weeks Easter holidays? It will give you a break and a chance to think.

I'm really sorry about your Grandmother and Mum. No wonder you are struggling. Two big losses in a very short space of time would floor most people in normal circumstances, but with the added stress of your ds, the pandemic and the strange way of life in general, it must be really hard.

What is happening with your ds education now? He should be given some alternative if he's been permanently excluded, or have a return date if he's going back to his usual school?

He is unable to communicate with you, but his behaviour is showing you that there is something wrong. Is there stuff going on in his life that he is overwhelmed by? Struggling with lessons in school? In with 'the wrong crowd'?

In my area, we have youth mentors, accessed via school...they are usually brilliant at finding out the issues, raising self esteem a bit and building good relationships with young people. Is there anything like that available? Most councils have a behaviour support department that schools can access...if school isn't helping, can you go to them directly?

I don't think I would send him to his Dads. I think like pp's have said, he will see that as being pushed away.

I think that he is probably hurting, but just can't find the words to tell you, or doesn't know what's wrong, but isn't able to say it, and so is showing it by acting out.
Then you react, he kicks off, and the cycle continues.

Is there a common ground you can find? Watching a tv programme together...even if it's awful and his choice! Asking him to play you his favourite tune at the moment and faking interest in it? Going for a McDonald's drive through together and talking rubbish about nothing, but being equals rather than parent/child if that makes sense. If it goes well, you tell him how much you enjoyed being with him, and thank him for coming.

Anything that involves you 'bonding' and breaking the cycle for a while, and allowing you to be with him in non conflict for a while.

It's so very hard, and I wish you all the luck... x

It sounds like you are both grieving. I am so sorry. This last year must have been unbelievably shit for you. As a bit of an aside, the podcast Griefcast is really great. The host lost her father as a teenager and talks a lot about how angry she acted. Might be worth a listen?

Overall I think you both need a break. Don’t make any huge decisions now. I would do absolutely anything to take the pressure off and get some time for yourself, and also some more pleasurable time with your son eg McDonalds, movie time, whatever.

You have had a really traumatic time OP. It sounds like you could do with some support. Is there anyone that your DS does listen too, a family member or a friend who could take to him.

By the sound of things, he is probably grieving too, but in a very different way to you.

Please don’t send your DS away, that will just make matters worse in the long run for you & him.

I have two DS’ 19 & 18, unfortunately we have had many bereavements over the years, they see it from a totally different perspective, and can be angry.

Teenage years are really tough, you will get through it OP, you really will.

You just need to find that key to open up communication with your DS, one of my DS’ is very sensitive, if he feels I have criticised him in any way he totally shuts down, he needs a lot of praise to keep us on track.

Wishing you all the very best for the future

I would try and sort out some counselling for him if you could...
Yes his constant disrespect is completely unacceptable, but you’ve both clearly had a tougher year than many. You sound like you’re struggling (and who wouldn’t be in your situation!!) but it also sounds like he’s responding poorly to a tough set of circumstances..
How long has he been behaving like this? Does he do anything ‘good’? Even if it’s really small like putting his plates in the dishwasher or watching something on tv that you’ve agreed on together? (Not saying that that excuses his other behaviour but it might give you something to work from that was positive).

I really think you should give him a chance as he would feel rejected if you sent him to his dad and you don’t want to lose him as well.

His dad simply hates me, has done for the last 12 years since I left him.
His dad refuses to work with me, he won’t even speak to our son regarding his behaviour. At the moment he has been visiting his dad every other weekend. He hates going to his dad but I need to break. He has a social worker because I reached out to them for help and have been speaking to them for a year now. I did completely lose it late November last year & ended up walking out my home leaving social services to bring him to his dad as I was baking everybody for help and nobody was listening. I didn’t want to but I felt like I was dying! I did feel further lost without him & he desperately wanted to come home so I allowed him to come back home. His dad allowed him to make that choice because he didn’t really want to keep him. The weekend contacts are only happening because social services are involved. When it’s me alone asking his dad for help with our son or some intervention I get nothing no help or support. Yes I am still grieving but I don’t get a chance to grieve or get to the next step with my son dragging me down.

Going to his dad short term is not an option. His dad will not have a short term arrangement with me. No he doesn’t want to go to his dad for the weekend much less live with him. However he wants to stay with me because he can overrule me overpower me & do as he pleases. I know it will be another loss but it feels like he’s slowly killing me.

Oh OP ❤️

I feel so so sorry for you. It sounds so tough.

Please don't send him to his dad's. It will be awful for him and he needs to know he's with someone who loves him, regardless of his behaviour. (I mean, don't send him permanently. Not the weekends. Tho my nearly 14 yo won't stay with her father. I can't make her, so I don't.)

You need some urgent support. Counselling & therapy for you both. I imagine this might be hard to get via NHS? Could you afford private help? I think it would be an essential investment.

This is in no way to blame you, but your DS is likely struggling with the situation with his dad, and now the fact that you've been dealing with such grief has made you less available to him.

It's the old adage - put in your own oxygen mask first. You can't help your son until you get help.

You are right, I am at the end of my tether and have little tolerance left for his behaviour. Also you right that his behaviour isn’t extreme but it’s overbearing and consistent. He refuses to follow instructions whoever the instructions come from. I understand that abandonment is damaging but this is also living hell.

His dad sounds like a bad option because he clearly doesn’t care that much about your son. If he did he wouldn’t prioritize hurting you over seeing his son. He’d have asked for some regular contact schedule then kept communication with you to the absolute bare minimum. Some time with a good male role model (one who doesn’t hate you!) might help. Do you have brothers? Or does your son have older cousins? Does your son do any sports or hobbies? (I know, covid is messing these activities up atm)

@Gnicole can you make these points to the social worker, today? Can she source some help? I feel so sorry for you both.

I'm not sure how the system works in the UK (l live in Ireland) so recognise my suggestions may be unhelpful or incorrect.

You do need urgent help for you tho.

Been where you are and it is awful. You are exhausted, not thinking straight and need a break. Put your foot down - son goes to Dad for 2 weeks, you go away and rest, call meeting when you get back to discuss the best way forward for your son. If that is going to his dad's full time then so be it but take control of the situation and don't be blackmailed by either of them. You are a human being who deserves respect. Good luck.

This is also what I’m taking into consideration as I know it will have a massive affect on my mental health & my son’s emotional well-being. But what can I do? I can’t cope & have been trying my best for a year. I would love to speak to my mum about this as she would help me make the right decision and whether it’s right or not I would have her support. Learning to live without her is how I’ve found this mumsnet. Thank you for the advice & conversation xx

Can you ask the social worker if there is a Strengthening Families team, or similar within children's services, you could be referred to? They'd be able to give you some support and your son, if he will engage with them.

I have a 16 yr old ds who struggles to express himself , he won’t ask for help , he shuts down verbally and will express his feelings in his behaviour .
He refuses to go to school or will just be a nightmare at school if there’s something on his mind , for a few days until he’s worked thru what he needs to he will be very difficult .

He might be grieving and feeling like no one gets it . Is there someone at school he can talk to ? Someone close but not too close who can get thru to him ? I wouldn’t send him to live with his Dad coz that might not be what he needs . If he’s that controlling with regards to contact with you then how do you think he will parent an out of control teen ?! Teenagers wind us up , that’s what they do , but they need us as parents to not react to it and just keep loving them regardless . Make sure you’re there for him , talk to him and keep talking even if he doesn’t want to listen . With my DS I have to leave it to sink in , he goes off and then once the information is sinking in then he will come round . If you give up on him now what is that teaching him ? You might never repair that Rship ever again .