Teenage son, stay or go?

[Gnicole]

I hope someone can help with my difficult decision. My 14 yr old son is literally driving me insane, he has no respect & cannot be told or made to do anything. He wants to live in my house like a bachelor doing exactly as he pleases. Ignores me, refuses to eat with me, refuses to go to bed, tells me to shut up. Everything I ask him to do just doesn’t get done, he requests nice things such as the latest trainers (£115) which I refuse to buy because of his awful behaviour and attitude. He refuses to wear the pair of trainers to purchased fo £40 (plain black Nike). It’s a battle everyday, I took his phone because I found he had recorded himself smoking & sent the videos on Snapchat asking friends if they want to join him. I’m constantly receiving emails & calls from school about his behaviour attitude & lack of respect. Doesn’t bother with school work, I’ve tried to help him find his interest but he’s simply too lazy to do anything. Yes he has always been lazy but it’s getting worse as he’s got older. It’s difficult to explain how awful life is & we live alone. There’s no one to intervene. I’ve tried speaking with social services and the school many times and getting nowhere. My dilemma is do I send him to live with his dad or continue with this suffering? Bearing in mind that his dad is all or nothing, he’s willing to take our son but will have a court order for full custody & I won’t get much of a look in from there on. His dad is not willing to co-parent with me but willing to take my son completely. I’m asking here for some advice because I would usually speak to my mum & my grandmother but I’ve lost them both last year to COVID. Feeling so lost & scared of making the wrong decisions but my son is breaking me. What do I do?

Have you read some parenting a teen books. I recognise the feeling you are talking about and the more worried I felt, the more control I tried to get back and the more my DC rebelled. It was a vicious circle. Reading 'How to talk so teens listen and listen so teens talk' helped me massively. Could he feel unloved and criticised? Could you change your language? Could you show him empathy and really listen to why he is so sad and unmotivated? I still get frustrated that my teen has selfish moments but I've learnt that they best way to get her to do what I want is through encouragement and love as authority no longer holds much sway.
What was he like as a younger child?

Lots of good advice for you above OP re looking after your self.

For what it is worth and what you say about his dad taking him I wouldn’t do it - if you had a good parenting relationship it might work but you dont.
It’s hard and I don’t have the answers for you but please try to get help for yourself and your son via grief counselling if you can ( you have both been through a lot) and keep as much open conversation with your son as you can.
My thoughts are - He is 14 and some of what you describe is teenage stuff - but to the max! His behaviour escalates because you are both bouncing off one another.
I am not excusing that at all by the way it’s still not acceptable but I can see things the same as my youngest DC. My eldest never did most of the stuff he does they are just very different.
Mine is much the same with food,( never arriving when it’s ready , moaning about not liking it ), tidiness ( bedroom a tip) , clothes ( none in washing basket) , grumpy etc and whilst it’s tough to do I have learned to change the way I think about it (eg I think ‘if you want to live in a dirty bedroom and wear in ironed clothes then that’s your choice’ and let him get on with it. OR if the food was on the table if he’s is not there to eat it I think ‘he has got arms to use the microwave ‘ etc). It’s bloody hard but I’ve learned for my sanity it’s best - when he does appear I just act normally - ‘you weren’t here but you can heat up what I’ve made if you want to’ .
The ‘proud mum ‘ in me wants him to be smart and lovely but he’s mostly not at the moment and I try to think that it won’t last too long and that underneath my boy is there somewhere.

Then, plus all this :
You have both had two bereavements in a year in lockdown and he is grieving just differently to you . He probably hasn’t had the school routine he needs this year or the social friendship support all teenagers need to develop between 13 or so to about 18.
He knows his dad doesn’t really care about him other than to get ‘one up’ on you - that rejection must hurt.
He’s doing this because he is a teenager and because deep down he is deeply insecure. He wants to know you love him and will be there for him but the whole hormones / grief anger / lazy / behaviour thing just masks it.
Be honest - tell him you are tired, grieving and that you love him.
Please don’t send him away - he needs you just doesn’t know it or how to show you.
Have a look at Dr Andrew Curran on you tube talking about the adolescent brain too - it opened my eyes.
Good luck 💐

Firstly sending you a big hug, you sound as if you really need it.

From the outside looking in I think you've both got yourself into a cycle that you can't break out of. You're understandably struggling through grief, guilt and trying to get him back into line. He's struggling with hormones, attitude and is also perhaps feeling very down after a year of being stuck in, and everything that was normal being a distant memory. Shouting doesn't help anyone, but it's easy to get in an only communicating through yelling rut.

Neither of you are bad people, you're just in a situation where something has to give.

Me personally, I'd write him a letter rather than talk. That way you're opening a door but through not doing it verbally it gives him time to process what you're saying at his own pace.
Tell him he's loved, but you're lost. Tell him dad's house isn't a threat or a punishment, it's because the constant fighting is making you both unhappy and ill and that can't continue. If it was me I'd put in there that you're willing to give it one last try, where the past won't get dragged up (It's going to be hard but you must stick to that) and that going forward you really want to be a team like you used to be. Then wait and see what happens. Sometimes in my experience teens can get themselves into a situation where they can't back down without thinking that they're going to get another telling off, so by giving him this olive branch you've done all that you can

If it gets you nowhere then you'll know that you've tried, and then I think dad becomes sensible for all of your sakes. Don't think of it as permanent, because I very much doubt it would be, think of it as putting him in a safe place while you give yourself time to heal.

@CarelessSquid07A
His memory problems it was explained to me is he can’t remember a sequence three numbers in the correct order. He may remember A&B but forget C. Therefore at school they have been told his work needs to be bullet pointed and he needs Prompton so he doesn’t spend the whole lesson doing A& B forgetting he has C to do.
I don’t really give him more than one thing at a time to do but he still doesn’t do it. It could be a simple thing as to empty the dishwasher, it doesn’t happen. He’s not standing having an argument with me about it, he simply doesn’t do it whatever it is. He definitely completely remembers what is & isn’t allowed hence why he hid the purchases from Amazon, hid the phone. I have to admit I’m probably giving up as I’m getting nowhere & feeling worthless. When I’ve turned off the WiFi he ended up screaming at me that I’m stupid ridiculous & followed me around saying over & over “turn it back on now, turn it back on now” trying to drive me insane. Xx

That’s quite a significant memory issue. Adults can usually remember 5-7 numbers in sequence. I think that’s likely to be having a big effect on his motivation at school.

I would imagine that takes him a lot of effort to get through school even with prompts and tags assuming each teacher is putting that in place for him.

Its definitely worth getting you both some respite from the negative patterns you've fallen into and some space. Send him to his Dads with a letter saying how much you love him but that you're suffering with grief right now and need some time.

Then I'd maybe suggest reading some information on parenting adhd teens and maybe the explosive child. He's a bit older but some of it would likely apply and he doesn't have adhd but his memory issue is similar to some of the deficits adhd comes with.

Adhd can come with a lot of procrastinating behaviour and it may be his memory deficit overwhelms him in a similar way.

So bring laundry to x spot on Sunday has to be broken down to, remember its Sunday, Sunday is laundry day, identify dirty stuff, pick up dirty stuff, bring stuff to x spot and put stuff in x stuff. It may be too many steps so he gives up before he starts as he only gets to step 3 so doesn't know what to do past that.

The following you around screaming try meeting that with overwhelming calm and repetition which I appreciate requires a hell of a lot of patience and reserves you probably don't have right now.

Gosh I feel bad for you @Gnicole, it sounds awful. My bit of advice would be to choose your battles carefully but make sure you follow it through. Is it that a big a deal if he doesn't empty the dishwasher? Ideally it would be great but is it worth it? You obviously can't make him do it so he wins that battle which makes him think he can win them all. I think the withdrawal of the WiFi is the battle you can win as he can't make you do it. Make it clear he has to earn his privileges and don't give in until he has complied.
I don't think it would be a bad idea for him to go to his dad's for the Easter holidays and then you go on holiday to recuperate, staying in daily contact. Don't make it a punishment, its so you can grieve properly.

Your Social worker sounds next to useless, one of those 'it's all the parents' fault ', ask for a new one who can actively support you and your son, she's doing him no favours. Good luck

I had this with my eldest teenage son. Hormones were horrendous for him and he argued about everything. The best thing I can say to you is this passes. At 14 he tried running away from home twice, punched holes in the wall of his bedroom,, horrendous to his siblings etc. By the time my eldest was 17 he was a lovely chap again. He is now 25 with a masters degree and a solid career ahead of him. He rings me regularly and we have a really good relationship.

But..

I learned a lot in those years. Forgive me if I list them, they may or may not be some help to you. I spoke to my son and asked what helped the most.

1)I learned that if I argued with him, he switched off so I waited till he was relaxed and very carefully worked out a good time when I and he were not stressed so I could calmly explain why something bothered me. Driving in the car was usually a good time. I made sure that I only spoke about the thing most important and let the other things go. One thing a day is enough.
2) I made sure, I was always happy near him and tried to have fun and include him. It often rubbed off and cheered him up even if he wasn't actively joining in. If I was upset it made him very low so I kept that to myself. I played playstation with him (or watched asking questions) , and minecraft (yawn) just so we would have things to talk about. I listened to endless youtube videos about cars with him again just so we would have dialogue. I made it really obvious how much I enjoyed his company and how interesting he was.
3) I told him again and again that teenage years are the worst time in a persons life and it does get better. He liked feeling supported and knowing that I understood how he was feeling (although he never showed that at the time).
4) Anything (and my God it was hard to find things sometimes) that I could see to praise him and build up his confidence, I did. Repeatedly. I let him know that I thought he was capable and I had high expectations. I never let him know if he failed those expectations at times. In my experience, children try to meet expectations. If you have low expectations for your children then they will believe that is all they are capable of.
5) Children learn by example, so I never swore and really tried not be angry. If he told me he hated me then I replied that 'well I love you'. Always be an example of the person you want him to be.
6) I learned that my son never remembered the horrid things that he said, only the horrid things I would say. So I made sure I didn't say anything. If he was particularly rude or angry, I kept quiet and then talked about it when he was calmer.
7) My son had quite a bit going on behind the scenes with being bullied at school, ADHD etc. He wasn't able to understand the root causes of his anger and it has taken him years to understand himself.

Being a single parent is the hardest job in the world. You need to have a good support network where you can offload to people. Keep writing on here, we will all support you. Kids can be absolute nightmares, but they come through it.... honestly.

Hello, I absolutely hear you, I’m a single parent of 3, the oldest is also a 14 year old boy and is having very similar issues. His behaviour towards me is horrendous, he calls me all sorts of names, swears and has been physical to me twice, Lockdown has been hard for him (he is on the Autistic spectrum) and he has not engaged in school work.
I actually dread being home with him at times. He sees his dad regularly but he (my exH) just tells me to ignore him.
I sought help by approaching the school. We’ve had a couple of meetings involving professionals and I approached my GP to ask for a referral to Child and Family Mental Health. I realise that there are teenage hormones in the midst but I won’t put up with being sworn at, constantly belittled and threatened.

But no OP, don’t send him to live with dad. Take the Easter holidays as a break and demand support to help you get through. You’re not alone x

I just want to say I think you’re clearly a lovely woman who’s made a huge effort with your son, I’m sorry if my earlier posts were too harsh, I just watched the Michael Hutchence INXS doco and when his mum left his brother in Aus and took him to LA it caused terrible abandonment issues so was clearly skewing my view.

Your son is a problem yes but for me his dad is the bigger problem. Don’t sign any agreement he tries to give you, he’s shown he can’t be trusted to stick to arrangements in the past. From the further info you have shared, your son isn’t in any danger from dad it’s just harder work for him there in which case he’s perfectly safe to go.

As you say he’s 14 and can keep direct contact with you if he and you chose to without his dad interfering. It will give you some much needed space. Also advise some self care. Doesn’t have to be pricey, bath, glass of wine or a G&T, cheap face pack from Boots and something easy and rubbish on the telly.

@Lovinglifeand Thank you for your comments & advice. You are an amazing mum & im not sure I could live up to being so great. Your Strategies are fantastic however putting them in place and living with them with my son feels like almost impossible to do. I struggle with being spoken to like crap all the time & ignoring him let’s him just have his own way. As when I do speak to him when he’s calm & not in the moment, all I get is “sorry I donno” or what’s your problem your just going on about nothing. I feel like just giving up, let him do his own thing, do as he pleases if he pleases. Meanwhile I just provide a warm home clothing & food as that’s my responsibility. Ignore everything & try to live like I live alone. No expectations just ignore & keep my mouth shut. If I haven’t got the strength or support to do anything else, I think I’m supposed to do this as a parent. Maybe I’m not supposed to have a life until he’s fully grown as I should be bringing him up until he’s of age to live elsewhere. I have spoken with my son again yesterday evening, he desperately doesn’t want to go but & he doesn’t believe it will happen. He also made it clear he has no idea how his behaviour has such an impact. He completely doesn’t connect how is having an impact on his life or home. Obviously a 14 year old brain hasn’t fully developed yet as pp have pointed out. Dealing with this everyday alone is hurting my near & stomach, just feeling unwell & drained xx

Are you sure your ds hasn’t got ADHD (take no notice of CAHMS they really don’t know what they are talking about. I took ds to them and they said he didn’t have ADHD within the split second we were getting out of the lift
It took us 15 years for us to start on getting a proper diagnosis for ds, dd and myself.
I am in my 50s and recognise so much of the problems your ds has

I can’t retain any sort of list of things to do or if I was at school and told I should do A, B, and C and the class would start I could only remember A no matter how hard I concentrated and then was trying to work out what B and C was by watching others
I was called lazy all the time. I was called immature. ADHD people are slow to mature or never really mature. I think I read somewhere that we think like a 21 year old at the most so him acting like a 6 year old at 14 is nothing to be surprised about When ds was younger I used to knock 2 or 3 years off his chronological age to get how he was thinking

My mother put me in boarding school for a few terms as she couldn’t cope with me but as it was near a big town I was out every night even if it was just walking around.
The washing thing was exactly what I would do. I have the memory retention of a gnat.
Tell me something to do in half an hour and it won’t get done not because I am lazy but because I have clean forgotten it.
And the anger issues. I would explode several times a day.
I went undiagnosed for 50 + years and it has wrecked my life. I can’t for the life of me hold down a job for more than 6 weeks.

Both of my children are also being tested for ADHD and they think I brought them up great but do think I was more one of them than being a proper mother with bed times and meal times (to be honest I couldn’t keep up the level of commitment to get them into bed every night or dinner on the table at the same time or do anything on a regular basis)

For me I just let them get on with things and sort themselves out. I got their uniform ready every night. For me that one task was exhausting and took every ounce of mental strength which to a normal person probably sounds ridiculous but it was like a huge mountain I faced every night

Dd was the only one to enjoy school because she went to a particular school that the emphasis was on a particular activity and they only did academics for half the week.
Ds never really got on with school. He managed to get 12 demerits in 2 days at his new secondary. (3 was a detention) He just consistently missed things or forgot things or wouldn’t know what he was supposed to be doing

What would happen if you didn’t scream or try to correct him. What if you were just calm and did everything for him like going and getting his laundry or asking if he needs help with anything.

If he is ADHD you have to throw out the normal parenting manual because trying to adhere to it will drive you insane and cause a massive rift in your relationship. It will do you more harm than good

For me I just wished my mother would leave me alone to figure things out and let me leave school at 14 because I really couldn’t cope with school. It was boring to a degree that every second I was there ticked by so slowly and I think staying those extra 2 years just made me depressed and more off the rails than I already was.

I know your ds can’t leave school at 14 (no more than I could) but something needs to change

@Bythemillpond The The similarities between the two is so clear.
Mine was tested for ADHD because they thought he was on the other extreme end of it not bouncing off the walls but ridiculously laid back to a point of doing nothing. Most of the time I just feel like I can’t win as when I do do everything for him apparently I’m spoiling him mollycoddling him not teaching him how to grow up. I have had lots of changes that didn’t make any difference. The screaming & shouting stoped (from me) I changed language approach just about everything else you could think of it just made no difference. Maybe he needs to be assessed again. However when he’s in a decent mood and I speak to him and ask if he’s having problems at school, does he forget to do what he supposed to do is he struggling in anyway what’s stopping him from doing the right thing etc he will openly say there really isn’t anything he’s struggling with & it’s that he’s lazy & can’t be bothered. He’s definitely running this show!

Update
My has really flipped the script here
His social worker came yesterday explained to him that his dad will be applying for schools end of this week & seeking a court order for full custody. He simply said “ I don’t know why he’s doing all that because I ain’t going! I’m not doing that so forget it” she explained that if he refuses to go to his dad & mum can’t look after him then we have to look at Local authority care. He’s very clever as he knows I wouldn’t put him in care. It’s never been on the list as an option so he knows if it came to care or stay with me then it’s with me. I wasn’t expecting it to go like this, seems that he has a lot more control of his situation than I realised. I have explained sending him to his dad isn’t a punishment, it’s because I’m struggling to cope and it’s making me ill and if I’m too ill to look after him then he will have to go. So if this continues and I end up too ill to look after you I’m going to have to give me to your dad whatever decisions you make from there like refusing won’t be down to me. This is unbelievable, he’s completely running this show

Send him to his dad.
The latest update is horrendous.
He’s completely running the show, if you don’t get him out he’ll run you into the ground.

Pack a bag for him and take him to his dad's. He's running the show because you don't have the energy at this time to stop him. You need a break from him and he needs to see that you will follow through on what you say. It will be incredibly tough but at 14 he is old enough to learn that his actions have consequences.

I'd send him to live with his dad. I have a son like this but am married. If I could send him away, I would. He actually does much better with other people.

And you need to get over the 'I'd never put him in care'. I have friends whose teens went into care because they became so violent and aggressive and it was the best thing for them.

He needs to go to his dads.
Yes, he doesn’t want to, yes he will likely resent you for it BUT you won’t survive this much longer. You are broken, you’re done. I hear that in your messages.
You can’t be his mum if you’re not here.
I wish you so well, so very well.

He needs to have it explained that if social services don’t think things are good then they won’t hang about, they will make the decision for you all. It has and can happen

*arent good

You need to think differently. Break everything down into little pieces because you are struggling so much you can't see the wood for the trees.
Send him to Dads, don't feel guilty you have done and tried everything. Your son will be able to come back at a later date if that is what he wanted regardless of what your husband says. You would also get access. I would talk to your social worker about the legalities of access, they should help with this. Keeping him with you at the moment is unrealistic as you are at breaking point.
People don't realise how hard it is to have a child like this.

Get your son reassesed. No child acts like this for fun. There is always a reason.
I would look into PDA which is a form of Autism that causes extreme demand avoidant which is driven by anxiety and a need to be in control. Children with PDA can be very controlling, they may appear lazy but it is often can't rather than won't. They also often slip through the net as it is an atypical form of Autism that is harder to diagnose as children with PDA are excellent maskers who appear to have good social skills but often don't when you scratch the surface.

If you do decide to keep your son you need to totally rethink your parenting. It isn't working, not because you are doing the wrong thing but because your son is not a typical child.
Does it really matter if he stays in bed on non school days for example or fixes his own food. He may need that control. With PDA you need to give him more control, that doesn't mean no boundaries, just rephrase things slightly e.g rather than you need to do x now you would say x and y need doing which would you prefer.

Look into love bombing and therapeutic parenting. It is gentle and can help to rebuild the parent child relationship. I had to fake it with my dd at first. Things were so bad she had a complete breakdown and was violent towards me at 14. Two years on she has diagnoses of ASD and ADHD and we have a much better relationship as I now understand the reasons behind her behaviours and she is a much nicer happier person.

YY, I have one who has PDA traits within his autism and ADHD. But honestly, right now, I've been where you are, and you need space and a break. He needs to go his dad's. He refuses, social services will decide for him.

People do not realise how hard it is to have a child like this. It's utterly soul-destroying. It's the closest I've come to suicide and I've experienced child loss.

Send him to his dad. Ask social services to support you in gaining access. They will do this as its in your son's best interests to maintain contact with you - the fact his dad doesn't like it is irrelevant.
He needs to know he can't control this or he will be controlling you until he chooses to move out

@MotherofTerriers

Send him to his dad. Ask social services to support you in gaining access. They will do this as its in your son's best interests to maintain contact with you - the fact his dad doesn't like it is irrelevant. He needs to know he can't control this or he will be controlling you until he chooses to move out

Or until you have a breakdown and he has to leave anyway.