Teenage son, stay or go?

[Gnicole]

I hope someone can help with my difficult decision. My 14 yr old son is literally driving me insane, he has no respect & cannot be told or made to do anything. He wants to live in my house like a bachelor doing exactly as he pleases. Ignores me, refuses to eat with me, refuses to go to bed, tells me to shut up. Everything I ask him to do just doesn’t get done, he requests nice things such as the latest trainers (£115) which I refuse to buy because of his awful behaviour and attitude. He refuses to wear the pair of trainers to purchased fo £40 (plain black Nike). It’s a battle everyday, I took his phone because I found he had recorded himself smoking & sent the videos on Snapchat asking friends if they want to join him. I’m constantly receiving emails & calls from school about his behaviour attitude & lack of respect. Doesn’t bother with school work, I’ve tried to help him find his interest but he’s simply too lazy to do anything. Yes he has always been lazy but it’s getting worse as he’s got older. It’s difficult to explain how awful life is & we live alone. There’s no one to intervene. I’ve tried speaking with social services and the school many times and getting nowhere. My dilemma is do I send him to live with his dad or continue with this suffering? Bearing in mind that his dad is all or nothing, he’s willing to take our son but will have a court order for full custody & I won’t get much of a look in from there on. His dad is not willing to co-parent with me but willing to take my son completely. I’m asking here for some advice because I would usually speak to my mum & my grandmother but I’ve lost them both last year to COVID. Feeling so lost & scared of making the wrong decisions but my son is breaking me. What do I do?

You sound like you're stuck between a rock and a hard place.
This age is peak obnoxiousness for teens.
Do you have any common ground, things that you do together?
What motivates him?
Is there anyone, other than Dad, he could stay with for a few days (once allowed) to give you a break? Time out at Dads would be ideal but sounds like it comes with baggage. Although, you're right, he should be able to stay there too without it being such a drama.

What does he want to do? Does he want to go to his dads? Whatever your reasons are for him not doing that, explain your worries to him. Tell him you worry about him and his health and you are trying to keep him safe and healthy. If he doesn’t want to speak to a counsellor or anyone, Are there any times when things are ok? That you could slip in some of your thoughts about where this will lead? Tell him, but don’t be soft with him. Give him an ultimatum, a week or whatever to change his attitude. Try letting him know what WILL or COULD happen if he changes

@Lsquiggles

Your son and ex clearly like to think they have power over you and I think you would benefit from your son staying with your ex for a period of time. He fought for access then didn't use it, says it all, I don't think you'll have an issue gaining access once you have had some head space. I don't think your ex really wants him full time but says so to make you feel shit and like you can't go to him for help. Teenagers can be ruthless and I feel your pain, the only person who can change the situation is you

Thank you so very much, your words are of great comfort to me & right now that’s clearly what I need. I’ve never laid myself so openly bear & reached out for help & advice like this before. But I Literally don’t know what to do and spinning round & round in my head. Sometimes I don’t feel like I’m going to make it to tomorrow & I’m obviously trying to do what’s best for us both but it seems there’s no right decision. If I let him go I’m abandoning him & he might run away he might join a gang (as I’m told by his social worker) if I keep him with me my health is dramatically deteriorating, his behaviour probably won’t improve & it’s slowly killing me being disrespected, ignored & overpowered Daily. Looks like I’ll be worried about him whatever decision I make 😢

I sent my son to live with his dad - he also didn't think i would. It took a couple of years with me refusing to break contact until our relationship became a good one. He has said that if I hadn't done this, he is not sure where he would be now. It worked out in the end and we have a close and loving relationship now. So take control of this and do what is best for your boy (boundaries from you and at his dads) and you (recovery time and stronger mothering) xxx

@Rosebud2005

What does he want to do? Does he want to go to his dads? Whatever your reasons are for him not doing that, explain your worries to him. Tell him you worry about him and his health and you are trying to keep him safe and healthy. If he doesn’t want to speak to a counsellor or anyone, Are there any times when things are ok? That you could slip in some of your thoughts about where this will lead? Tell him, but don’t be soft with him. Give him an ultimatum, a week or whatever to change his attitude. Try letting him know what WILL or COULD happen if he changes

He doesn’t want to go to his dad because he can stay with me and overpower me & live like he’s in charge of his own life. We’ve had several proper talks about consequences what could happen and also the rewards of life what he can have for doing the right thing. He always chooses to do the wrong thing. I’ve given him Ultimatums they don’t work because you couldn’t care less. He breaks any Boundaries I put in place for example taking his phone off of him he decided to steal it back for me rather than ask for it back or earn it back. I always tell him how much I love him and worry about him. We speak about what his future can look like if he does right & how it could be if he continues to do wrong. He himself told me that a prison governor came to his school and explain to all of the class that those of you who refuse to listen to your parents or your teachers or anyone in authority he may as well give them the keys to the cell now. He sees sense but chooses to do wrong rather than right. He’s 14 and I see 6 year old behaviour sometimes. Also yes he has been fully assessed by CAMS for almost everything & it turned out that he’s absolutely fine with a slight memory problem. What came out of all the assessments was he is the way he is because he’s just lazy and can’t be arsed! I couldn’t believe it but it was the truth. Lost with this son of mine & just want to do what’s best. I’ve tried praying too x

@uneedabreak

I sent my son to live with his dad - he also didn't think i would. It took a couple of years with me refusing to break contact until our relationship became a good one. He has said that if I hadn't done this, he is not sure where he would be now. It worked out in the end and we have a close and loving relationship now. So take control of this and do what is best for your boy (boundaries from you and at his dads) and you (recovery time and stronger mothering) xxx

Thank you so very very much It’s the first comment I’ve seen with a success story of sending a son to live with their dad. I am made to feel it’s the most awful thing a mother could do & what sort of mother would send their child to live with the dad. Maybe it’s the sort of mother that isn’t coping & trying to do what’s best for us both. I have truly given my all & my best just isn’t enough. He’s breaking me & making this decision is making me sick. I can’t eat can’t sleep then I want to speak to my mum as I’m feeling so shit & the whole grief starts off. I feel I’m going to have to let him go & he really doesn’t believe I will. But I feel I will also be Harshly judged and may have to go through the grief of losing him. Life!

@EarringsandLipstick

To have someone not say “you can’t send him to his dad” is comforting.

Sorry OP. I didn't mean to cause you further stress with my posts.

Hi Honestly all of your words have been of comfort today. Please don’t think you have Distressed me in anyway your words have been a great help thank you very very much. I’m just very Distressed with my situation and decisions I have to make.

I’d pop him off to his fathers - and I wouldn’t feel any guilt in doing so either.

I think it will give you time to grieve and recover emotionally. It’s not abandonment, it’s respite for yourself in order to be the best mum possible and I think it sounds like you really need it.

Don’t make a big deal of it - keep it all matter of fact. He has two homes and he’s going to stay at his other home whilst you get better.

Ignore his fathers threats. Your ds has a phone so you can keep communication open without his involvement. Perhaps you could arrange to collect him during his school lunch breaks - take him somewhere for lunch. My ds enjoys this.

Been through a rough patch with my ds so I understand how shitty and cruel they can be.

I find it best to ignore the attitude, give him options , and give advice not orders.

So if he doesn’t want to do chores/help out that’s okay, but he then shouldn’t expect money or lifts.

Having problems at school - ok this is a difficult one. School and social work should be doing more to investigate and finding solutions.

“Refuses to eat with me”. What I’d say - Are you eating at the same time as me or are you doing your own thing? No? Ok that’s absolutely fine. Should I cook for you or would you prefer to make your own? Ok great no problem.

The shoes - if my ds asks for expensive trainers/clothing that are more than my budget then he has to contribute towards them. Otherwise I say well you need new school shoes your budget is £60 you find a pair yourself send me the link once you have and I’ll buy them.

Spending - you gave him an allowance to buy things. Whilst you may not like what he’s bought let him crack on with it. If my ds bought a balaclava I’d prob laugh and ask which bank he was planning on robbing.
If my ds bought anything dangerous I’d remove and dispose of it straight away. Ds could argue/complain all he wanted I’d explain once “buy things that are dangerous and I will remove them. Don’t be so silly in the future,” and it would be end of discussion. Regardless if he continued to complain I wouldn’t respond.

OP I know it's hard and I know it seems like there's no end to it, but this phase will pass. When my DD was that age I came close to a complete breakdown over her behaviour and complete lack of respect. I've no idea how I got through it. But I did. She's an adult now and a teacher herself. She looks back with shame on how she was as a teen and now has huge respect for me (for not killing her).

Ditto! If he sees you’re not arguing back he’ll start thinking about it - eventually. You just need to stick to your guns. I can hear my ds hear too when he was 14. Twice going out the door this morning I was told to shut up (pure exhaustion but unacceptable so will he having a word in his ear later!) oh they’re delightful at this age..!

Sorry but 14 is not a young child. I would give him an ultimatum - behave or you'll be going to you'd fathers - and follow it through. If you have a breakdown that's what will happen. Sometimes you have to put your self first.

@Freehugs

I’d pop him off to his fathers - and I wouldn’t feel any guilt in doing so either.

I think it will give you time to grieve and recover emotionally. It’s not abandonment, it’s respite for yourself in order to be the best mum possible and I think it sounds like you really need it.

Don’t make a big deal of it - keep it all matter of fact. He has two homes and he’s going to stay at his other home whilst you get better.

Ignore his fathers threats. Your ds has a phone so you can keep communication open without his involvement. Perhaps you could arrange to collect him during his school lunch breaks - take him somewhere for lunch. My ds enjoys this.

Been through a rough patch with my ds so I understand how shitty and cruel they can be.

I find it best to ignore the attitude, give him options , and give advice not orders.

So if he doesn’t want to do chores/help out that’s okay, but he then shouldn’t expect money or lifts.

Having problems at school - ok this is a difficult one. School and social work should be doing more to investigate and finding solutions.

“Refuses to eat with me”. What I’d say - Are you eating at the same time as me or are you doing your own thing? No? Ok that’s absolutely fine. Should I cook for you or would you prefer to make your own? Ok great no problem.

The shoes - if my ds asks for expensive trainers/clothing that are more than my budget then he has to contribute towards them. Otherwise I say well you need new school shoes your budget is £60 you find a pair yourself send me the link once you have and I’ll buy them.

Spending - you gave him an allowance to buy things. Whilst you may not like what he’s bought let him crack on with it. If my ds bought a balaclava I’d prob laugh and ask which bank he was planning on robbing.
If my ds bought anything dangerous I’d remove and dispose of it straight away. Ds could argue/complain all he wanted I’d explain once “buy things that are dangerous and I will remove them. Don’t be so silly in the future,” and it would be end of discussion. Regardless if he continued to complain I wouldn’t respond.

@Freehugs This has been helpful, I do hope I can get past the guilt & let him go & hope he understand one day. Chores around the house, that’s a battle everyday. He isn’t just given money but he’s happy to do without.

Trainers, he’s happy to do without rather than earn the ones he wants even if it means being in trouble for not bringing trainers for PE.
I do ask if he wants to eat with me and it’s always no so I let him have Pete so whatever he wants to put in the oven.
The spending, we had a decent conversation about me getting him the debt card & we spoke about what is & isn’t allowed. Also we had an agreement that he will ask me if he can make a purchase before he does. It didn’t last long as he started buying the things we spoke about that isn’t allowed. So I took the card back. He can’t be trusted with a debt card.
I had to turn his room upside down to find the things I realised he purchased on Amazon. He refused to hand the items over. Instead he had me searching for 4 hours.

@makesIlaugh
Thanks
That’s also a part of my thinking, he’s not a baby or a young child. I also think if I’m not coping now what am I going to do when he’s 15 16? I’ll be living under his rules by that point.
What I’m hearing is I can’t continue to live like this with him but I’m going to be equally struggling with worrying about him & the guilt of letting him go. Can’t win

At 14 no court would stop your access. Send him to his dads as primary carer and then state your son can visit you when he wants, not a fixed agreement. At 14 your son can contact you directly about visiting

@Babyiskickingmyribs
What happens when I don’t do things for him example I let him know I’m cooking, I let him know it will be ready in 15 minutes, I call him when it’s on the plate & he doesn’t come. Whenever he comes to the kitchen for food he usually chooses to put on a pizza or may sometimes warm the food I cooked. I’m not really complaining about him not wanting to eat with me, someone asked if we eat together and I answered why we don’t.
Laundry, same thing every week, I ask him to have all his dirty clothes in the laundry basket by Friday evening so I can have it ready by Sunday. He never does, I’ve tried leaving it but on Monday morning when he has no clean ironed uniform he will just say “I can’t go to school because you didn’t sort out my uniform”
School usually calls when he’s on his way home, they’ve already spoken to him & passing it over to me. When the teacher threatens to call me he says “go on then, why’s she gonna do? Scream & shout” there’s no showing him.
I have a friend who owns a sports shop in london & with the lockdown he said he’s going to have to have a ridiculous sale at a massive loss but before he does my son can come to his shop & choose anything he wants if he stops being disrespectful to me & stays out of trouble with the teachers till Easter. My son was excited at the time being told but couldn’t be bothered to put in any effort to be able to have what he wants. This is unworkable

CAMHS said the problem with your son was that he was lazy with a bit of a memory problem?? Did he hear them say that? Shocking IMO. CAMHS is a shit show, I wouldn't take what they said as gospel, it's only 'in their opinion' he doesn't have SEN and they might just not have asked the right questions

My guess would be that the 'memory problem' has led to him finding school difficult and really struggling to keep up, he feels like a failure, this develops into extremely low self esteem and so he doesn't engage with anything. He pretends he doesn't care about anything because it's easier that way especially when people you love die, your parents are split and you're not sure if anyone really wants you because your dad has a new family and your mum is struggling. He may also be pushing you as hard as he can so that you send him to his dad's and in his head he is then proved right that you don't want him.

I don't think at his age there are any easy answers. Does he have any idea what he wants to do when he leaves school? Any interests whatsoever? Any positives you could really concentrate on and try to bring out in him? Interests from when he was younger? What is he buying on amazon? Could any of that lead into more of an interest? xxx

@Tal45
Sounds like an interesting point of view, he’s never liked school. There’s nothing at school he interested in, at home his only interest is his Xbox. Myself & my daughter who is 27 has tried asking if he wants do gaming professionally and she would help him set up his own YouTube channel. He’s not interested, all the hobbies he used to do was because I took him after school (primary school) since starting secondary school he hasn’t wanted to engage in any activities. He’s super lazy, I remember taking him to his swimming class after school & it was raining. He said “don’t you think it’s wet enough? Surely we don’t have to go swimming” however once I got him there he was always happy & a great swimmer. Just an example, he’s not that age where I have control over what he does. He was buying Contraband balaclavas legal highs etc. The fact we had a conversation about it and he did the complete opposite just tells me I’m wasting my breath.
He’s endless consistent disregard is impossible to live with. Xx

OP, I really don’t think sending a child in this situation to their dad’s is a bad thing btw. I was only looking for other solutions because his Dad has been shit to you and will probably gloat and tell you he’s won if you decide that your son going to live with dad is what’s best. It’s not abandoning him at all so don’t feel guilty if it comes down to that. It may well be awful for a bit because his dad might do things to try to make you look bad to your son - like buy the damn trainers. But your son will see through that after a while. He’s seen your trying so hard to help him and even though it isn’t working at the moment, one day he will appreciate that you tried so hard for him. If you send him to Dad’s for a bit then you will need to be careful to keep a line of communication open with your son - taking him out for lunch once a week could work well, even if it’s only Fish and Chips in the park while lockdown is on. As a pp said, some of his behavior will be linked to his brain being an immature teenage brain, so damage limitation now and waiting it out is a reasonable strategy as far as I’m concerned. It’ll probably start to get better when he gets excited about something in life.

@youneedabreak

To all the posters on here piling on the guilt trip - the OP is exhausted and is having difficulty dealing with a disrespectful teenager. She has said she recognises that her pulling back will negatively impact him, but while this might be the case in the short term, in the long term she is teaching him that she is a person too, and as much as she loves him, she also deserves respect. As it is she is being bullied by her son and her ex. OP - please put yourself first for a bit so you can carry on being the best mum you can be. There a lot of mum years ahead.

Thank you so very much for your support xx I’m feeling awful & guilty enough, obviously I don’t want to let my son go but it’s equally obvious I can’t cope & I have really tried xx

@Bigglassofwineplease
You deserve a medal, how did you survive them years off of your son being so difficult? I’ve been struggling with my son since he started secondary school & I don’t feel I can make it through the next feed years like this. It’s also become clear that he’s going to get worse before it gets better & he might not have a mother left standing by then.
I’m wiped out, tired of trying & tired of being exhausted & just Surviving it’s not a way of life.
I have warned him over & over hence why he doesn’t believe it will happen even though it has in December. It’s unbelievable to me that he’s had the horrible experience of having to go to his dad, begged to come back & gone back to being a problem quickly. It’s the rudeness and disrespect I probably find the hardest. Your a champion to have got through that with your Sanity intact xx

Usually when reading about children being difficult there are avenues to still go down. And I am sure if there was any ideas left they would be suggested as I do not know many mums that would say going to his dads is usually best. But my god you do seem to have done everything you can. And it is obvious that you also have not had chance to get any breathing space to grieve over your losses. As you even rightly admit he does not want to go to his dads as he has an easier time with you. He doesn't appreciate you and completely takes you for granted. And quite honestly kids can be like this but obviously not to this level in that they don't listen to their mum but they do their dad. So you either need to treat him as his dad would, rules and consequences or send him to his dad. I would think it will be short lived on his dads behalf as with 2 little ones at his dads will mean his dad won't want the extra stress, he won't likely want to be around them and I doubt the step mum will enjoy the situation either.

What is his memory issue?

It's entirely possible that he actually isn't retaining any behavioural amendments you're trying to make. He may be lazy because he doesn't know why he doesn't remember how to do things or that he likes them. Like the swimming he might not remember that he likes swimming so sees it as you forcing him to do things he doesn't know he likes.

Did he remember the list of things he wasn't allowed to buy? And frankly at that age I would've gone straight out and bought that list because it wasn't allowed to be honest. A gohenry type card that gives you control over it may be better suited.

Does the school make any adjustments for him? Its often the transition to secondary school that sparks issues because the problem isn't as easy to mask and you slip behind your peers quickly. And masking at school takes up a lot of effort so home behaviour completely deteriorates.

Could you afford a private ed psych assessment for him? Even if he does move to hs Dad's it might help the school if they're willing with recommendations for his learning.

It sounds like he's quite self sufficient with cooking etc so I'd leave him to it. A lot of teens retreat from family meals especially if they feel an expectation to interact.

With things like the phone, or gaming(wifi) have you tried simply putting a password on them for 24 hours as a consequence. He'd likely spend a long time trying to guess it and might succeed occasionally. Then don't engage in any conversation about it until the 24 hours is up.

Has the washing thing always been a problem and maybe linked to his memory or just teen can't be botheredness? If the latter and his washing isn't ready for you then don't do it, If he says he doesn't have anything and can't go simply tell him he can wear the dirty stuff and go. If he doesn't go that has natural consequences of its own.

Still it sounds like his Dad would be the better option for a time.

@Gnicole I totally understand. I developed awful anxiety and ended up on medication when he was here with us. Its so bloody hard. You sound like you have thought long and hard about it though. I'm 4 years in if you want to DM me with any questions.

My heart goes out to you. I would pop him to his dads until he learns respect for you. End of. You need a break.
One last conversation explaining what will be happening & how he should behave if he wants to stay.
Then follow through.
You won't lose him, the way it's going you may lose yourself though.

@PurpleMustang
Absolutely, I have tried all sorts of different strategies however you can’t work with someone who will not work with you. I’m sure the step mum doesn’t want this & my son can’t stand being around the young children. He says the 8 yr old boy has ADHD & regularly locks his parents out the house and the 6yr old girl kicks & punches his parents all the time. Therefore my son actually looks like the well behaved perfect Peter when he’s at there house, as he has the best behaviour out of the three of them. His dad doesn’t discipline him when he has him. He says he doesn’t want to upset his son in the short weekends he has him. So he does as he pleases there, refuses to get out of bed before 1pm but no one challenges him except me. He’s waited on at his dad’s house, he says he doesn’t even have to get himself a drink. They have young children & are used to doing everything for them. Getting every snack drink and not expecting them to do anything for themselves. Which is fine when your child is 6 but not 14. Even though he’s waited on at his dad’s he hates going because of how ridged the household is run. For example my son tells me his dad puts on the house alarm at 8.30 because they all go to bed & he can stay up in his room but can’t walk around the house or get a drink snack etc. He absolutely hates going, it’s been a battle everytime he has to go. His dad has told me & the authorities that he will have to move home to Accommodate his son therefore this will not be short lived. He wants me to sign an agreement that if my son turns up at me door asking to come home I have to return him. I couldn’t answer that as it would be very difficult to turn him away. As his dad has made it clear all or nothing. Really stressed, haven’t eaten again today xx