Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

[Pegsinarow]

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly!
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

Hi, @GettingRopeBurns I think you should phone friend and just make sure she knows what’s going on but def refuse to give the number. With DD You have an easy excuse of ‘after what happened with other friend no chance’

Hope all settles down soon.

Hi everyone. So sorry for being absent from this thread for over a month which was not my intention.

I hope everyone who is staying at home, is coping with their teens and enforced isolation (For the benefit of newcomers:
I live on the continent and we are in virtually total lockdown atm.)

Huge thanks to Billybagpuss who I see has, in her inimitably kind and wise fashion, been responding to posts and giving everyone the benefit of her experience .

It's been a bit full on here. Our office is expanding (well it was before Covid-19 crisis - now it's just frantically fire-fighting ) so my job has been expanding with it and in addition, we have been trying to renovate the wreck of the house we are hoping to move to in three/four years (the plan was to retire there, but it looks like we will be carrying on working for a good while yet!) while at the same time trying to clear/spruce up the house we are currently living in for renting/selling/moving the office in to (haven't decided yet) and in addition to that we had lots of visitors again (including more teens!) over Carnaval holiday.... and I am behind with everything... not just this thread!

Anyway, I just wanted to say "hello" to all PoTs and I will have a read back through the thread now and try and catch up a bit!

Solidarité (as they say over here!) to all!

And again to Billy and everyone who is desperately hanging on to the end of the rope atm.

Haven't read through all the thread yet but meant to say Gettingropeburns yes, I remember you very well! So sorry things are still so difficult with your dd.

I agree with Billbagpuss about forewarning your friend and I know it's excruciatingly difficult but I would try and not care what other people think of you and hold your head up high and just behave as you have been all along.

I had teens here over the half-term holidays (two of whom are siblings and who both complained bitterly about their mother who is an old family friend and absolutely lovely) and I put all the complaints mainly down to teen angst and I tried to get them to see that us mothers are just human, and frail and flawed like everyone else, just trying to do their best etc ... . So please don't assume everyone will think the worst of you

Btw, I should probably just say that I keep thinking that I am through the worst with dd now she's 16.5yrs, as she swings between behaving really admirably and unselfishly (for example, two nights ago she was crying and genuinely upset because her basic Red Cross certificate didn't qualify her to rush off to the nearest hospital and help doctors and nurses with Corona battle ) and at the other end of the spectrum being absolutely foul and frankly, making a difficult situation a whole lot worse, by mainly verbally battering me being obnoxious.

Basically, she is massively angry at life, the universe, current circumstances (she doesn't really realise how privileged she is yet) and to be truly honest - I don't think that I am great at the "emotional nurturing" side of parenting and interpreting what is behind her upset all the time.

She doesn't really open up much, but seems to be a ball of anger and is very verbally "effective" but at the same time she is not very confident which is a difficult combination to deal with.

It ends up with me biting my lip and taking quite wounding insults which would be totally unacceptable from anyone else (and let's face it, are unacceptable from your closest family too) but despite being so forceful, it's difficult because I know her confidence is really fragile. How the hell does one deal with that? I have absolutely no idea?

And it's exhausting as literally anything and everything I say seems to be misinterpreted as a personal attack, I kid you not, whether it's "pass the sugar" or advice in response to an issue she is complaining about.

A classic example late last night, just before bed, she was getting really intensely worked up and saying that the school Internet hub doesn't work for her remote lessons and that all the teachers were crap and aren't good at using it, and everything was too much and overwhelming etc etc.

And instead of just shutting up and sympathising, me and my big mouth, in an attempt to make her feel better, and because I was tired and not fast enough on my feet, gave her some advice (after acknowledging her feelings/sympathising I should add!) tantamount to it being difficult for everyone and not giving up and things will become easier as teachers get used to system etc and she went ballistic, saying I was always on her back and no one understood the pressures, etc etc etc and threw in a good few unpleasant verbal attacks in the process ending up at screaming full in my face. And so it goes ... .

This all sounds a bit trivial as she doesn't drink/smoke/go out without telling us where she is, and she is fairly self-motivated with studying (although that seems to be crumbling a bit in current situation) so I know I should be very grateful. But to be honest, it's all so up and down, and wearying, and relentless (and causes issues between dh "who can do no wrong" and myself) that it's really really got me down (feel bad anyway as battling massive menopausal symptoms of fatigue and low mood, joint pain) and I've been prescribed ADs but I haven't taken them yet. I'm swinging between "I really should" and "I don't need to it's fine" until the next verbal battering comes ... and I try and build up my mh and mental resilience .. and then I go down low again... .

From now on, I'm going to (as I have said so many times before) try to step back and just act like a vaguely comforting presence who doesn't have opinions and certainly doesn't express them, but it's so hard when the answer is staring you (as a parent) in the face! Must get "step back" tatooed on the back of my hand in fact

Anyway, that's how things are currently.

to everyone trying to negotiate similar ups and downs....

OK so I have read about half of all the posts I have missed ... so I am going to post this now and go and have lunch... and I'll be back later to respond to the rest!

First, huge sympathies to the PoTs whose children are self-harming or threatening to do worse which must be soul destroyingly worrying for parents when things are "normal" but in this current situation with Covid-19, when anxieties and stresses are all ramped up, and teens can't see their friends, it must all be a whole lot worse All I can say is "hang in there" and "keep posting" and read Parsley65's brilliant post that demonstrates that there is light at the end of the tunnel!

Also, thank you to Teentraumatrials because in response to another poster, you said,
"it's so hard to hear the hate but in so many cases it's coming from unhappiness and the fact that you are the ones at the end of the rope no matter what" and I really needed to hear that this morning!

Auberginerus that is really, really great and positive to hear! [Yay!] You sounded so low earlier down in the thread. Hats off to your ds for making such strides. And to your dp for engaging and trying to improve relations. You must be really proud of them both Not forgetting huge pats on the back to you for hanging in there

Maybe this crisis will make all of our teens a bit more appreciative of others, and what they have, in future? And get them in to the habit of counting their blessings a bit. Here's hoping anyway!

If you don't mind me asking (and don't feel you have to share obviously!) how are you doing with regard to your mh and ADs etc? We sound in a similar situation and I am still in a quandry... .

MrsCarolBrady hopefully peer pressure may win the day? Agree with Billybagpuss though. I guess I might express my doubts about a boyfriend if I thought they were being seriously manipulative (as this one sounds) and most importantly give specific give reasons why but then I guess you have to leave it up to them. I am not qualified to give advice though because I think I have a tendency to deal with these things with a blunt hammer, when I should be using a fine sculpting tool You must be pulling your hair out with frustration/extremely worried, all at the same time

Welcome to the thread Sunshinex2 I'm so sorry about your daughter's experience of being groomed. That must have been awful for her and for you

We have banned Snapchat but dd is on TikTok (or whatever it is called) and uploaded a dance video that I expressed my opinions about... (it wasn't inappropriate as such - well possibly the movements were a bit but I'm an old grouch) - but I think she had no clue as to how it would be interpreted on-line). I was totally surprised by it because she dresses fairly conservatively, isn't keen on make-up, etc etc and then goes and, despite having had CEOPs guidelines constantly talked about/emphasised, she goes and posts something like that. She is young for her age though and fairly gullible even though she thinks she knows everything! To be honest though, she is so way ahead of us in terms of technology that anything we ban or don't ban (short of turning off the Internet completely) is by the way really ... .Feel pathetic saying that but it's true.

God knows how she portrays us to her friends... although my "secret weapon" is that they have been here so much in the recent past and I have cooked and baked and fed them so much pizza that I hope they won't hate me entirely

Anyway, I just wanted to say to you that I really really sympathise with the feeling of being hated by your own daughter. It is really anxiety provoking because you keep raking through our own mind, over and over again, where you have gone wrong, or what you could have done better. I think we have to learn to step back and not take it so personally though. A lot of the time it is nothing to do with us (although sometimes of course it is!) . I think it is important (however hard it may be) not to go too far down the rabbit hole of anxiety with them ... but it is really, really difficult in practice

Nutcutlet no advice because I could have written your post myself and I am clueless generally about where all the hate/anger is coming from. I'm sorry that you are having to put up with such rudeness.
Your sentence "He is adept at winding us up until we explode and then blames us" certainly rings true! I agree that the up and down drama is so tedious and exhausting. One finds oneself bracing for the next attack ... . Arf at "Attila the teenage toddler"

Aramox just fyi this is our second week of lock-down and dd has cut herself a fringe to the sound of much shrieking from the bathroom How is the festering going ?

Teentraumatrials how is your dd dealing with current isolation? Is it giving her a mental break from the pressure of knowing that it would be better for her to be out, even though she isn't (if that make sense) ... or is she finding things harder? I am taking comfort from the fact that at least my dd has contact through her friends via technology, although I know that comes with its own problems ... .

@McMen how are you and yours? How are your dds reacting to being restricted socially?

Welcome to the thread WhathaveIfound how is your daughter doing? I hope the ADs are helping x

vjg13 I'm so sorry about the social care funding and that your older teen isn't helping matters. Has the situation improved at all?

Welcome also Scruffyoak how are you doing?

Waves to Wowzers (it's really good to hear the thread is helpful!) Cocokoko123

I am going to end with Billbagpuss's advice to another poster whose teen had just disclosed mh issues, because it is so bloomin' brilliant and something we should all take on board ...

Also don’t ever feel embarrassed about showing emotion that is the main reason this thread has carried on, it’s hard raising a teen and you see all your friends with their perfect teens and think it must just be you and it’s honestly like being in an abusive relationship sometimes. You should be very proud that she said what she did.

Hear hear to that!

Finally, finally, in the words of Honeybadger hang tough people!

BBL to catch up with everyone I have missed!

Again, huge, huge apologies for returning to the thread so late ...

Oh yes, was just waving to Cocokoko123 in previous post there and waves to @Staywithmemyblood @BigSandyballs and everyone else!

Welcome to the thread @theletterZ how did it go with the specialist? I hope your dd's mood is lifting a little bit now

@Don'tjudgeme welcome to the thread. I was going to ask the same about your dd, did you manage to find any support for her via CAHMS (virtually impossible though that may be? How is her mood now?

@Jaxon123 how is it going with your ds now? Again I am so sorry for responding so late. Iirc (and that's not a given, as my menopausal brain is so foggy nowadays) all I think I was going to say that, was that if I had the choice, and if it was humanly possible, I think I would opt to switch schools in that situation as peer pressure is so important at this age but I know there were a number of different factors involved ... but personally I don't think 11 yrs is too old to move ... lots of dc move at 13yrs after all.

@AmIaweed how are your two doing? And yourself?

Also same question @calmonthesurfacebut?

@dayswithaY how is your dd doing? Again, so sorry to not to respond for so long. Everything in your post rings a bell I am sorry to say But you are definitely not alone, and you are definitely not a parenting failure. You woudn't care so much if you were

@wowzersindeed are things still as bleak as they were? How are you all doing. You are NOT a failure

@Chrysanthemum5 I hope the calm continued for a whilet at least ...

@sandwiches77 how is your dd responding to the restrictions about going out? I imagine the change could be hard for her (despite being reluctant to go out)? It's a different thing when you are not allowed to ifyswim.

I hope I haven't left anyone out? I've scrolled up and down until I am a bit dizzy ...and got a bit discombobulated [which seems to be my permanent state currently If I have I apologise!

And as ever, I am in total awe of all the support posters on this thread give to each other, despite being in distress themselves.

Must do some work but, hang in there PoTs!

Sorry emboldening fail there @calmonthesurfacebut !

Thanks @Pegsinarow, that was perfectly timed - you sound very calm (and kind), which is a balm as I’ve been flapping a bit - not actually too much about DDs for once! My elderly parents are refusing to be sensible about going out, my dad has almost no immune system to speak of & I’m struggling to explain how important it is that they look after themselves, without sounding patronising/making them angry... so maybe not so different to dealing with teens after all! I appreciate that things could be a lot worse, though. I hope being in lockdown is not driving you too far up the wall - your post made me smile, I also randomly cut my own fringe as a teen... sounds like you reacted a lot more calmly than my mum did!
It is helping me massively to read everyone’s posts. I sympathize so much, though I feel bad that I don’t often offer advice... (I feel like I’m flailing so much with my own teens that I wouldn’t have a clue where to start).
Hope everyone is finding ways to manage the current situation while still somehow keeping some ‘space’ for themselves (easy for me to say, I know). Just about to go and explain to DD for the nth time that - because her dad and I are both WFH & younger sister is being bombarded with ‘remote learning’ by her (admittedly very competent, which I am grateful for) teachers - she can’t have her music up so loud... wish me luck!

Hi there Wowzers lovely to hear the thread is helping . Also, I hope the loud music was turned down eventually

It's entirely understandable to be worried about your parents in current circumstances. It's funny you say that it's like dealing with teens actually because I have had four rl friends say exactly the same thing! And all of their parents are driving them totally nuts by being non-compliant/dashing out when it's not necessary etc etc Perhaps the further measures imposed in the UK yesterday will curb their enthusiasm a bit.

I wish the on-line learning worked well here. DD had one lesson last week which stalled after 10 mins and then the technology crashed! Other than that she has been totally overwhelmed with all of the work in her in-box, little of which she understands and can't seem to contact anyone to ask .

I hope you and your family keep safe and well

And that applies to all the PoTs on here!

Hang in there eveyrone ...

How’s everyone in lockdown? We had an ok first bit but strains are ramping up massively. Ds refusing to do anything...

Bit up and down here Aramox tbh. I can't keep dd off sm as much as I would like. And she is a bit overwhelmed with all the hwk coming through. On-line lessons have crashed after 10 mins!

It's not easy for them.

to you and all other PoTs

My daughter is swamped with work from school too, Year 12. Even my school app is pinging constantly, she gave up on the online biology practical but is working hard to keep up or seems to be! She alternates between stressed about Coronavirus to oblivious!

We managed to sort out the care plan for my older daughter with social care before the world stopped and I'm happy with the outcome, she will start the adult day service on the same site as her specialist college when her course ends and can still access her usual respite services.

Anyone else feeling absolutely knackered all the time?

Thanks for the @Pegsinarow - very grateful for it! Cheers 🍸🍸

Difficult times PoTs - hang in there! 🍫🍷🍪

And total respect to all teachers! 🙌 This homeschooling malarkey sure isn't easy - and I've only got one DC Time for that now

pegsinarow thank you my DD isn't coping. She continues to be avoidant. She blames me for her low mood and anxiety as I have suggested that she gets out of bed and get some fresh air. She is spending the day in bed all day asleep in her onesie.... I need another tactic, but am struggling to find one.

Oh that’s hard. Mine won’t go out either. I feel it shouldn’t be optional! Am I wrong? Probably.

Hi everyone,

So sorry your dd isn't coping Sandwiches. It's so difficult. I think some adults are using the "ostrich in sand" technique to keep anxiety at bay, so you can't really blame a teen for doing so. But it's so incredibly frustrating when you KNOW they would be better for going outside and exercising for a bit! It's like talking to a brick wall, I know

No, fwiw, I don't think you are wrong Aramox at all! It's terribly difficult to make them though! I don't know what the answer is! The single thing I am insisting on atm is dinner or lunch around the table once a day, at which phones are put down. That's it.

I probably should be being more interventionist wrt hwk though? What is everyone else doing with their 16 yr olds?

Wowzers how are you doing?

Cheers Staywithmemyblood (and here's some for later! ) totally agree with you about respect for teachers btw! (Although my dd is very compliant at school, it's only me she ignores or berates )

vjg13 gosh it must be such a relief to have the care package for your older daughter sorted, but how is this current situation affecting her (and you?).

If it's any consolation wrt your younger daughter, my dd seems to veer between being overwhelmed or oblivious too!

She is either trying to follow an extreme schedule (get up at 5am and study for an hour, exercise at 6am, breakfast of goji berry and berroca shake (I am making that up, but you know what I mean!!) at 7am, studying again at 8 to 12 when it's avocado on toast for lunch etc right through until bed-time ... all of which was sustainable for about four days in total ... and I thought she did well to do it for that long tbh! Or it is getting up at 11 am, resting sloth-like on sofa, doing no study, generally morose. And when I tried to suggest (very, very gently) that a "bit of balance" might be in order, then my head got bitten off!

I have backed away for now and will try again on Monday... . I can only suggest though, not order ... . And model it myself of course!

Hang in there PoTs ... we can get through this ...

I’m going to back off too as I got nowhere today! I suspect they need more control than usual. I thought they’d be online all the time but ds seems completely cut off from his few friends- so worrying.

Hello all, hope you and your families are keeping safe and well. Thanks Pegsinarow I’m OK - just calming down after first big shouty lockdown row with eldest DD. Sorry everyone, this is going to be me ranting 😞... I knew it was all too good to be true... turns out she’s been going to the local supermarket (after telling us she’s going for her daily exercise walk) to stock up on junk food, Red Bull etc - because she can now no longer do this on the way home from school. The junk food in itself is one issue (which I try to be very, very careful around, because of the prevalence of eating disorders amongst her friends- I mean she is clearly already eating in a disordered way, but if I mention it I seem to make it worse). But a far worse problem is that she said today that she doesn’t bother to wash her hands/use sanitizer before or after going into shops, and has admitted that she then comes home and hasn’t bothered to do it here, either. She just sneers at me for ‘pandering to the fear mongers’ when I point out to her that she’s not only putting herself in danger, but all of us too. I was nearly in tears trying to get her to see this today, but she just laughed. She’s vaping and smoking in her room (yet another issue - my dad has had skin cancer and is now in remission from lymphoma, my brother has had testicular cancer, but again all my reasoning, pleading and eventually anger about it just produces sneers and ‘well it’s my choice and I’m doing it’). She’s at least doing her schoolwork for the moment, so I can’t moan about that. She’s just generally being very hard to live with - I hate saying it, but it feels like we’ve plumbed new depths of teen selfishness today... I keep racking my brains trying to think where I went wrong. She told me repeatedly tonight that I’m an idiot, prick, cnt, and that I’ve ‘fcked up’ her and her younger sister (who has told us that she’s ‘terrified’ of her older sister, but sides with her whenever she’s around, presumably out of fear). I’m finding it hard not to think eldest is right, I have made a mess of things. I had a pretty miserable adolescence and promised myself I wouldn’t repeat my parents’ behaviour... I haven’t, but instead I’ve just made my own mistakes.
On a slightly more positive note, my parents have now accepted that they are probably ‘vulnerable’ after all and are staying in their house apart from a short daily walk, which is a massive relief. Sorry I’ve banged on for so long... sending 🌻🌻 to you all.

Sorry @Wowzersindeed it’s particularly shit when basic health precautions become a matter of argument. I hope she heard you beneath the bluster. Mine threw away the hand sanitizer I gave him- I was so cross! Can you stress these are govt/nhs rules not yours?
It’s very hard for our teenagers (and us) when they have to individuate themselves from us but are locked up with no freedoms. It feels like there is so little we can do to give them autonomy, especially when we are (vaguely) supervising school work too.

That's so true Aramox just when they are gaining autonomy and independence, they have it all taken away again. And I don't know about you but it's so difficult to know how their friendships/school work are going ... because they choose to share such tiny nuggets of information.. If dd volunteers some info and I ask a follow up question which is slightly clumsily phrased, or not quite factually right ... it all blows up in my face again One can only hazard a rough guess I suppose Sorry your ds seems to be cut off though These are very difficult times for teens that are already withdrawn and now are withdrawing even more ...

Wowzers it's a total nightmare isn't it, because they instinctively dislike anyone telling them to do anything -it's like lighting the tough paper when I remind my dd to wash her hands - or help tidy up, or empty the dw, or do anything to help actually! [She did hoover once last week though so I suppose I should be grateful for small mercies!]

I don't think anyone without a teen - or with a compliant teen - would understand just how difficult the normal, regular transactions of life can become with a non-compliant teen, never mind when your health/life depends on it! You would think they would get it but grrrrrrrrrrrrrr . The only difference with mine is that she only goes out to run. She's reluctant to go shopping but she is going to have to take her turn at some point!

I am trying to take a bit of comfort from the fact that their selfishness in a way has a bit of a protective effect, in that they can't really comprehend the full horrors of cv and the effect it will have on everyone, they just consider the immediate effect on themselves. Although I do think they have "glimpses" of the bigger picture sometimes too ... but they can't cope with it.

Anyway, I was just coming on to say Wowzsers please, please, please PLEASE don't go down the route of believing all the insults that are flung at you! It's apparent from your posts that you love your dc and are very concerned for your dds. Your dd is not right when she flings all those insults at you! Please don't imbue those words with the power to hurt you so much because they were chosen to inflict maximum damage (and to offload inner conflict on to a "safe recipient" ) not because they have any weight to them!

Believe me, I have been there and doubted and wrung my hands and got very anxious about it (I also had a pretty miserable adolescence with quite a harsh/distant mother). And now a bit of time has passed, I have stepped back and been able to assess things a bit more rationally and thought "ok I am definitely not the best mother, and I have made lots of mistakes, but I am not a bad mother: I listen much much more than my mother did, I am interested in and more engaged with my dd's life (when she allows it), I am more easy-going in terms of how we live in the house and I love her totally and want the very, very best for her and try and do everything in my power so that she has a good future. So I am not the best, but neither do I deserve being called names and being shouted at or on the receiving end of receiving horrible insults.

So in your shoes I would talk to her (choose a good moment) and explain all of that and tell her how those insults are NOT acceptable and how they make you feel. Ask how she would feel if one of her classmates screamed those words at her? But be confident when you say it and don't cry or beg or betray that you are upset. Because I have a feeling they need us to be strong in this situation! And to stand up to them a little... .

Who knows ... I am still grappling with all of this myself ...but just to give you a small glimmer of hope ... things do improve bit by bit ... even if it's just by tiny tiny incremental amounts ... ! Hang in there

Take care everyone! Hope you are all keeping safe and well in these very testing times!

< not just to be used for hand-sanitising purposes

Forgot to say Wowzers glad your parents are now staying indoors except for daily exercise! Hope they keep safe and well!

Thanks Aramox and Pegs. You’re completely right - feel like daughter was definitely ready to spread her wings and has now had them well and truly clipped. I know I’d hate it if I was her, but also know that I would never have behaved towards my parents the way she does - I suppose because they were stricter and less ‘present’, so I will try and tell myself that it is good that she feels able to talk to me the way she does, because it means I’m not like they were. I keep saying to her that it’s only temporary, and that while I am not the one making all these new rules, I do think it’s important to try and comply just for the time being.
I know I shouldn’t let words hurt so much, she just seems to know how to skewer me completely. I’m not confident at the best of times, clearly I’m going to have to toughen up a bit! Yes, am so glad my parents are finally hunkering down - it took concerted WhatsApp badgering from me, my sister and brother but at least they understand now. Take care all 💐

Pegs My older daughter (22) can be a challenge even on a 'normal' day so isn't doing too badly with the huge change in her routine. Trying to get her to do a few bits round the house, stop eating! and walk the dogs with my husband in the afternoon. She will settle down in a week or two when she realises this is it.
Trying to get the teen out of bed by 10am isn't going well either. It looks like she will get 80% pay from her weekend job so that's cheered her up a bit.

I've managed to strain a muscle at the back of my left leg so haven't been out since Friday and not even Coronavirus related! Normally my dog walks and treadmill runs are my life line, my fault because I carried on running and walking despite being in pain. Just hoping a day or two more and I can at least have a little walk! Lots of people have it much worst and I do know that.

Good luck everyone, a day at a time.

Hi all. I'm back!

I used to be Parsley - nothing sinister, just computer problems.

When I last posted it was to say that Dd16, after a couple of years of self harming & school refusal was back on track.

Now she's had a relapse because she hates being stuck at home, is sick of the excessive and endless school work and is really missing her friends.

Family are a very poor substitute.

I've had to contact school to explain that she's struggling and why they aren't getting any work in from her

I could see this coming and have been dreading it as she has been slowly building up her her MH and is now isolated, unmotivated, eating too much and generally rolling back down a very long, steep hill. It's like watching a slow motion car crash and being unable to help.

I feel as though I'm in the back seat; a reluctant and terrified passenger.

That’s so hard @SausageCrush. There’s no roadmap for a time like this is there? Are mental health services operating at all? Is there a school counsellor? Any chance of more adjusted work or personal contact from teachers?