Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

[Pegsinarow]

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly!
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

Thanks, @Dontjudgeme101 and @dayswithaY - I know it probably sounds cheesy, but I do really appreciate the fact you took the time to write kind words, even in the midst of dealing with your own difficult situations. It helps.
@Chrysanthemum5, you are definitely not alone. Every time things get tough with DD lately, DH and I seem to just snipe at each other/withhold affection. We used to be a good team... Autism (mine) is a factor in our situation too - DH is convinced I’ve ‘given’ it to eldest DD. In fairness it does run in my family (he’s not the total arse I’ve just made him sound) and she does display several traits, but she isn’t interested in pursuing an ‘official’ diagnosis. Which makes it really hard to know how to help her, sometimes - anxiety around change (even change that would make her life smoother/easier) is a big part of her behavior.
I was going to end this post with something like ‘hope everyone is having a better day today’, but seems a bit glib (my own day isn’t going any better than yesterday!). But I am really grateful to you all for just being there & having the generosity to share on this thread. You are good people. Right: I’m off to lurk for a few more months!

I've posted about DD before, so apologies if you know this....

She is 17 (18 in June). During her GCSE year, she struggled with friendship issues. Whether it was a consequence or not, I don't know, but she didn't get the GCSE results she needed to stay on and do A levels at School. School offered her alternative subjects, but she was adamant with her subject choices and the fact that she wants to go to Uni this September.

So, enrolled at college, struggled with both academic and social side. Got two U s after her first year.

Last July she was diagnosed with autism, which gave us the understanding regarding the lack of social skills. She dropped at of College as finding it too much, asking to study online at home last September. Since then, she has done hardly any assignments, spends the days in bed, adamant that she is going to Uni this September despite ite missing the January deadline.

She won't listen to any alternative sessions, and I'm tearing my hair out.

People tell me that it will get better, but when????????

@Wowzersindeed I can totally relate DH and I used to be a strong team now we are ok as long as things are going ok with DD but pretty miserable when things are bad.

DD doesn't have a CAMHS diagnosis of autism as the waiting list there is a year so we paid for private support. DD is adamant she doesn't want an official diagnosis as she doesn't want to feel different but fortunately her school say they don't need that in order to support her. Mind you we've yet to see much support from the school as DD's liaison person has been off sick for a while.

I'm rambling now! But it's good to talk

@Chrysanthemum5 I don’t think you’re rambling at all. All sounds familiar to me - DH and I have long conversations about how we need to work together/be a ‘safety net’ for DD even when she’s being hateful, and I think we both genuinely mean it, but as soon as things get properly bad we seem to forget our good intentions and start taking pops at each other. We’ve been saying it’s a ‘difficult patch’ for years now, tbh am just hoping to see some light at end of tunnel soon, not sure how much longer either of us can stick this out.
Yes CAMHS here is hopelessly over-subscribed, too, and I the school has one (presumably exhausted) full-time counsellor - DD didn’t want to take up an appointment with her. We paid for some private sessions with a counsellor but DD made it a point of principle not to engage, so was a waste of money/time. Glad to hear your DD’s school is at least trying to help.

Glad to find this thread still here ( but sad too if you see what I mean). I posted a bit when the thread was new back in the spring when ds went missing for a week. Since then things have been very up and down, a suicide attempt in June in the middle of GCSEs lead to a CAMHS referral but he then stopped engaging with help. He ended up with relatively good GCSE results and was initially very engaged with college, made a new friend circle and seemed much happier but has gone massively downhill since Christmas, stopped going to lots of classes, regrets choosing music etc. Upshot is we have a meeting with college on Friday regarding his fitness to study. His relationship with DH is pretty poor but DH put loads of effort into improving it - and organised some family counseling to discuss how the three of us can communicate better. Sessions went really well but he has now totally regressed and undone all the good work and I feel back to square one. Definitely affecting mine and DH's mental health. So it's encouraging to hear stories from survivors!

Can I ask advice? I think I know the answer but find myself double guessing everything.
My daughter, just turned 14 has a history of talking to people she shouldn't online. This was noted at school and police called due to a safeguarding incident and pornographic images. Since then she has far more regular phone checks and after a break down in trust due to her talking to more people (men) and hiding information/deleting messages I insisted the only way to continue is if I have 24/7 access to her Instagram on my account (as that's how she talks to and meets people) - she agreed to keep her smart phone. Last night I discovered she has snapchat installed, low and behold more messages to random people.
I've said I don't trust her at all now, it isn't like i'm doing this to read personal messages but ensure she is only talking to friends from school not randoms on the internet. I have ignored and not picked her up on private messages to friends on Instagram that have included horrible bullying comments until it all came to a head last night.
So, I think she shouldn't have a smart phone that way she cant access the likes of Instagram, TikTok and snapchat and have a basic phone that texts and makes phone calls.
She says she's bullied enough (from the messages I've seen she is the bully, full on mean girl) and she isn't pretty and that's why she needs instragram etc to feel good. I've told her it doesn't matter how pretty she is physically her behaviour is what makes her ugly, I cant trust her to keep herself safe/follow basic internet safety advice so she cant have a smart phone regardless of how 'bullied' she'll be.

So rant aside, would you insist she has a basic phone and remove the smart phone or have another temporary ban

We're in a very similar situation AmIaWeed . The threat of getting a 'punishment brick' has been made a few times but I the end we've done the same as you - temp bans and access for us to her account. I think trying to teach responsible use is the best option but it's bloody hard. Every day I see stuff on DD's phone that makes me cringe, whether it's lies or just things that might sound not too l bad said, but written down are terrible.

My daughter is on the other side being bullied but actually she definitely isn't making things easy for herself.

Personally I'd like social media banned for under 16's as I just don't think that they re mature enough to deal with it.

teentraumatrials there is a petition going round on fb to ban just that - I have signed it

Thanks CocoKoko - I'd heard that but haven't got round to signing it - will find it and add my name.

I'm feeling particularly down this morning as I was thinking about how lonely and isolated DD is when I was out walking the dog this morning.

She hasn't had a social interaction with any of her peers for 2 months now - barely a conversation at school either. It's got to the point where no-one wants to speak to her in case the bullies then turn on them. She sits on the stairs at break and comes home or eats in a classroom at lunch. When I think about how hard it must be for her to even set foot in school every day it breaks my heart and I can totally understand how that is driving her (sometime fairly terrible) behaviour.

I just worry so much about the long term impact on her ability to form relationships and develop trust as at the moment she trusts no-one (and is right to as only this week several of her private chats with so called friends (the few who are still even talking via social media) have been screenshotted and shared with the wider group.

I have made an appointment with my work wellbeing service to talk about potential counselling for me as I don't see things getting better soon and I know I'm not resilient enough to be able to properly support her.

Hope others are having a better time

Chrysanthemum and Wowzers - I think dealing with all of this stuff definitely puts a huge strain on relationships. It's so important to present a joint front but sometimes it's hard for us too as DH can be quite black and white about things and also says things to me which he would obviously never say to her, but that indicate that he is reaching a point where he feels she can do no right. We're also trying to arrange counselling (through the school but probably paid for) but DD is adamant she won't go - we'll cross that argument when we come to it.

Completely agree with you TeenTraumatTrials on the relationship strain, especially when you have different views on how to deal with behaviour. DH has a tendency to get personally affronted by ds's behaviour. He knows this is OTT and tries to deal with it, but it's how he naturally reacts to things. I feel very caught in the middle sometimes.
Have been to the meeting with the pastoral lady today, she was very sympathetic toward DS MH issues but gave him some stark choices to make with regards his education, all of which I guess he will view as failing in some way. Sigh.
Hoping you can persuade your daughter to engage with help.

So much sympathy with the partner/parent troubles- ds has alienated dp so far that they can barely speak to eachother. It’s awful. I dread weekends- ds will spend all of it in bed with phone unless I intervene, in which case he will be foul. I feel there must be something else he can do, or something pleasant with us-ha - but he says not. Any suggestions? leaving him to fester goes against all my instincts- he literally just scrolls thru instagram, tik tok etc,I swear I can see the brain cells dying.

No big ideas Aramox but I empathise. Luckily we have a dog and our weekend long walks are something that we still do as a family. Otherwise DD would be exactly the same - jumping from Netflix to Instagram. Would a small step be to insist he at least gets out of bed and comes downstairs - then at least you can try to pull him into conversation or get him to help with stuff around the house?

I am so unhappy. There is me, my DP and our DS, 14, in our family. Our son tells us that he hates us about a zillion times a day. He says that he hates me 'more than the other one' (my DP). I am 'fat', 'stink', 'senile', 'retarded' etc. He will barely speak to us and certainly not to me. This is heartbreaking for me. He is not interested in anything except his phone. He is bored with himself, I know. He is adept at winding us up until we explode and then blames us. Of course, we are the adults etc etc but how can one live being so verbally abused, so devalued? I know there is kindness in him really but, right now, he's like Atilla the Teenage Toddler.

@TeenTraumaTrials maybe just one exit from the bedroom is an achievement! I think dogs are a great plan. Unfortunately ds is determined never to leave the house with us!

Survivor here.
Just wanted to pop back on to wish you all strength and empathy.
We went through a gruelling 2 - 3 years with Dd16 who was self harming, refusing to go to lessons, suicidal. One several occasions the counsellor told me to hide knives and medication.
We used a combination of CAMHS and private counselling and in the end Dd told us that 'just talking' wasn't enough and that she needed to go on AD's.
School were good too and last summer she bagged a decent crop of GCSE's and is now determined to go to uni. She isn't perfect by any means, but is more a 'normal' teenager now. She is still on AD's, but will be reducing them gradually over the next few months.
I wanted to say that there have been many times over the past years when I wondered how it would all end. Dd is still high maintenance, but I can say hand on heart that there is light at the end of the tunnel, even when you seem to be thrashing about in total darkness, screaming silently at the injustice of it all.

@Parsley65 good to read your story. I wish my 16yold was at the end of it. But again today she said she not going come home after school tomorrow because I'm constantly annoying her. I asked her to set alarm for 11 have a shower before dinner and couple hours study for GCSE before work at 3.30 I'm just a nag.

Thanks Parsley65

Really glad to hear that things are better with your DD and she managed to do ok in her GCSEs.

Nutcutlet - it's so hard to hear the hate but in so many cases it's coming from unhappiness and the fact that you are the ones at the end of the rope no matter what.

At one point DD changed us on her contacts from mum and dad to our names (as "you aren't my parents any more") - that was so hurtful but thankfully she did change us back.

I think it's ok to remind your DS that while you will always love and listen to him that personal insults are not ever ok.

I just wrote loads and it disappeared and after a get out of bed and go to school battle I haven’t got the energy to start again. So I’m marking my place and will post from a desktop later because apparently mumsnet and my iPhone don’t get on

Hang tough people x

Hi im a first time poster - long time lurker

So my 13 year old (almost 14) is not allowed snapchat. Phones are where most of our house rules apply. I have the screentime app and shes allowed 2 hours of screentime mon-fri and 3 hours on sat and sun. The 2 apps i dont allow are tik tok and snapchat. Shes also not allowed phones upstairs.

For over a year now she has given us so much grief over snapchat. We decided to put it under review. She can have it on our phones and if used responsibly in a few months she could have it on hers.

She has sideloaded it 5 times onto her phone - i can see on the screentime app that she has so she gets her phone taken away.

She got pretty vicious to her dad last night - we are shit parents, we ruined her, we need to go talk to her friends parents who are good parents etc
Im so hurt!

She has a history of telling lies about us too. She will write messages to other people telling them ive punished her when i havent or ive taken her phone.
She makes me out to be a monster.

She has a few chores in the week to do and if they are done she gets 20pound pocket money. We actively encpurage her to go out with friends. She has the latest runners, phone etc

Its killing me the fact that she hates me so much. Ive asked her to do me a list today of all the ways im a shit parent because other than her feelings on snapchat i cant see it?

Well. I recognise this very much. My feeling is 1. I hate you = I don’t like your rules. Stand firm, 2. She clearly feels strongly about snapchat. Do you have to ban it? Could you give it to her sooner? I think most 13 y olds have it. And the time limits, which I respect, are also quite strict. I had similar but had to give up. I also think lying about you is not criminal but normal, and you probably should give her more digital privacy.
It’s so hard!

Thanks all for sustaining thoughts. Re phone limits : these are the source of many rows with our 14 yr old DS. Enforcing them turns us into jailers and, at some point, something has to give. Here, it’s been us. DS is on his phone a lot (don’t judge me), noodling around w games etc, but there is a switch-off time at 9pm (using downtime) and no phone in room at night. That’s relatively ok. Re the “I hate you” speeches, I second what Aramox said. The other day, I bought some biscuits that DS likes and he said “I love you”. A bit later, the hates came out because of some minor request. I have to remind myself that it’s all teenage drama but it’s so tedious!

Thanks for the replies. Im absolutly open to her having snapchat, ove heard her out and realise how important it is to her. However she was previously groomed online. She never told us either. It was only through a spot check we found out. The stuff this person was sending her was vile and had her sumpathising but also giving away information - such as the colour of uniform, the town we live in. She is still so gullable. So we had a plan - she had access to snapchat on our phones whenever she wanted andin a cpuple of months all going well she could have it on her phone. But she keeps sideloading it on. I want her to have it but i also dont trust her to use it responsibly yet and i dont want her to learn that by telling us we are shit parents it will get her what she wants. She could have had it 10 times over at this rate

The screen time can and has been extended at times - it actually not a big deal. It was put on at a time when she was always on the phone and she was so sad and tired all the time as a result. Now most days she barely uses 1.5 hours. Things like whatsapp and spotify arent included in the screentime.

She told us that her friends told her if they had to live like her they would kill themselves. She has more freedom than any other 14 year old around us. Shes always given money when she needs it. We are currently renovating our house so she can have her own bedroom and have friends over without the smaller kids pestering her.

She never wants to do anything with us and is so mean to her 3 younger siblings. They are all afraid to even talk to her most of the time.

Shes an amazing kid, does so well in school, does so well socially and outside of the house she is an amazingly pleastent polite person

But most nights i cant sleep because she hates me so much. Shes made me cry so much and the thoughts of her not wanting anything to do with me fills me with so much anxiety

She doesn’t hate you! You’re her safe place. It’s terribly hard to listen to but this whole experience must have bern frightening for you all and maybe she is still processing it. How do you respond when she says she hates you etc? I find it better not to engage and just go Mmmm.

We are trying hard not to react. I did tell her that her words have power and that at the moment im really hurt. She told me she is sorry she hurt my feelings but she stands by what she said. She said it so calmly and not in a temper - it was 100% worse than when it was shouted