Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

[Pegsinarow]

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly!
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

Just an update - school seems to have stepped up their game after realising that we were thinking of moving, it seemed to suddenly make them understand we were serious and genuinely worried. They have come up with strategies and extra support including from the SEN unit and pastoral care team. So far it seems to be helping and DD is feeling much more positive about things. Time will tell. I have my fingers crossed.

@Plumbuddle

Talking on here helps. No judgement and often good advice with a large dollop of support.

I’ll say. Getting dh to have a look to. Got through half the first post tonight. Will read more before posting properly. Essentially have ds17 who has nothing but contempt for us and shows that constantly. Have done my best to disengage and keep up minimal service and courtesy but just basically surviving day by day. The main crunch daily now is getting all devices off him at midnight. Other than that he does as he pleases as I cannot bear the response to any other request. But will fill in later. Eh on night shifts and unusually I am doing the removal of devices so for second night I am wiped out.

@Plumbuddle

I’ll say. Getting dh to have a look to. Got through half the first post tonight. Will read more before posting properly. Essentially have ds17 who has nothing but contempt for us and shows that constantly. Have done my best to disengage and keep up minimal service and courtesy but just basically surviving day by day. The main crunch daily now is getting all devices off him at midnight. Other than that he does as he pleases as I cannot bear the response to any other request. But will fill in later. Eh on night shifts and unusually I am doing the removal of devices so for second night I am wiped out.

It's exhausting. My son (18) stays up until god knows when. It's a fight I don't have the energy for. And his temper and violence makes it not worth my while to try to remove any devices, after all " I'm 18, you can't do this"

Just spent about an hour trying to get some of the history of this thread from the first one. It's taking too long and I can see this one started in February this year. Will just update myself on this one from now on in. Maybe tonight. So I can start responding to others posts too and give back some of the relief I've already got lol.
One thing I have picked up from That first thread is someone thought the book Mercury's child was good. I just checked it on amazon and saw it looked like for younger teens whom you can still tell what to do. Does anyone recommend it for someone in their last year at school?
Do you agree it is a bit hopeless trying to work on anything like that if your child is enraged by even any instruction from you. I hope my approach is sane. I just don't interact except for putting food on the table and calling him once, getting him up for college if I have to when shift working dh is not there to do it, taking him to his tuition class in another town once a week or to dental appts, and removing the devices at night. I will speak if spoken to but that never happens. I smile and look kind but anything else is not welcome.
I developed this policy after the worst summer holiday of our lives this year. He has ruined the last few making scenes over devices or hacking at his older brother and us. This year he had recently been discovered creeping down at night to surf the internet in front room and then enacting porn scenes with a like minded girl he has found in another town far away. Hence when we got away for a month this summer we were able to limit his internet activities to pre midnight because on holiday there was more ability to track and trace all the devices, and remove them. This is when all hell really broke lose as he kept us up for hours each night ranting and raving but we did manage to enforce that, and we have done so on return home. But what was previously 90% hate and rejection of us has turned to 100% for him. I suspect it's because the girl would not have the freedom to behave this way during her parents waking hours so he is getting less sex from her. But I have absolutely no doubt he is getting it elsewhere on the internet.
He is never off his devices it's a full blown addiction. Has add and as said earlier probably pda but by the time I felt really desperate for a diagnosis which was last year, he would not consent. We set up therapy privately for him that year as CAMHS useless round here, but he bunked the sessions and we just could not afford the cost of that. We both work (me remotely from home) and just have not the time or appetite for the 24/7 warfare that would ensue if we removed the devices at any time other than night time. He fors to fe because could not hack authority of school. He made a mate there unlike at his previous school. We have just started to meet this guy as he has deigned to bring him hime this week. Lovely jolly guy. You would have thought it would make dw happy that he had a friend and the friend could sit round the supper table interacting in a friendly way with us without the roof falling in. But no sooner has the friend left than he was nastier than ever to the rest of us.

Oh just to clarify, the rationale for taking the phone at midnight is not to stop the relationship or surfing, it's just to guarantee him a nights sleep so he can preserve his health. He already eats a very very limited diet which will default time junk food when he leaves home, but we're determined to ensure he at least sleeps ok.

Taking a phone or limiting the Internet is usual in my house they don't need to be surfing the Internet or chatting to people over night. But every body seems to think its unfair and was told recently off a social worker that her dd would move out if she tried to do that. There is nothing wrong doing that

Sal

Yes social workers are the first to support internet use. I work in this field and don't get why they are so liberal. Mind you it is the young ones with no kids who appear to have this attitude.

Sympathy to everyone finding school return turbulent. It’s hard here too. We managed to get a bit more harmony in the summer, and to feel more in charge, but back at school ds is bad tempered/glued to phone. Went into a rage because I’d planned an activity which I knew he’d enjoy. Still he’s moved on from the insults we used to get so perhaps there’s hope. I get so sad seeing other families having fun and a positive sense of themselves-ds is determined to find us horrible and weird.

@whysotriggered

Just an update - school seems to have stepped up their game after realising that we were thinking of moving, it seemed to suddenly make them understand we were serious and genuinely worried. They have come up with strategies and extra support including from the SEN unit and pastoral care team. So far it seems to be helping and DD is feeling much more positive about things. Time will tell. I have my fingers crossed.

That's really good to hear - particularly that your DD is feeling more positive. Take the small wins when you can.

Welcome plumbuddle - my teen is younger than yours with different issues but sure lots of people here will be able to offer good advice and always a listening ear.

Hang in there aramox - stopping the insults is probably quite a big thing for your ds and at the very least should make it a wee bit easier for you to be supportive without wondering why you are bothering.

And on the phone thing I think that despite the fact that it always brings grief, having limits on phone use at night is so so important for teen mental health.

DD has had some form for this but basically now hands over her phone when she goes up to bed and it charges in our room overnight so there is no temptation to get up and go downstairs to use it in the middle of the night. As it's a routine it doesn't cause any grumbling (now).

DS is nearly 12 and we treat him the same - his phone goes off at 8pm. I have seen messages on his phone on group WhatApp chats from classmates at ridiculous times - half past midnight on a school night etc - and full on chats, not just one random message. That is so bad for them - I just don't think some parents realise what their kids are up to.

Thanks for your kind comments @TeenTraumaTrials. So glad that others agree that there has to be a limit to phone use. I must say that over the period we've really enforced this ie the last month, we have really seen a developing resignation in DS that this is inevitable and last couple of nights he handed over the phone quite peaceably (whilst looking very depressed and curled up fully clothed in bed).
Reading this post I have to reflect back that a lot of the teens are described as well-behaved in other settings or by friends, I remember another toddler parent telling me when my firstborn was little that the measure of success as a parent was not how they treated you but how they treated other adults, I think this is to a degree correct. I agree though @Aramox there is nothing like the pain of seeing other families in happy groups out and about and knowing that your own environment just engenders misery. Our family is so lucky and privileged in so many ways and yet he can't enjoy what is lying before him that is unavailable to so many... That's so painful too.
Has anyone had experience of what you do when they hit 18 and you really do not have a legal basis for taking their phone any more? Is the only option just telling them my house my rules, or has anyone been able to put forward a clever rationale?
I am begging fate to allow DS to opt, as of Sept 21, for a uni course away from the city we're in but unfortunately the best course and the one that I ironically always encouraged him to plan for over the past 5 years (!) is local and so we are going to be stuck with him potentially living here in the first year, simply because the loan is so reduced if they study in their home town so we can afford rent elsewhere but not here... I don't think I could stand another year of this negativity and hate.

Take the small wins when you can

I think this is very good advice for everyone. I try to take each day as it comes but I dread when dd walks through the door in case she's upset. The saying a mother is only as happy as her unhappiest child is so apt for all of us. Trying to support their emotional well-being or manage their behaviour or tending to your own hurt feelings when they lash out is so fecking tiring.

With regards to phone use, it doesn't help that so much of school is based around screens, group work, homework setting, online revision tests, it's hard to know what screen time is valid and what is not.

@Plumbuddle how open would he be to going elsewhere to do a different course? I will keep my fingers crossed for you.

I feel like I let go of the rope my 15 year old son has moved out and says he's not coming back. The social have arranged private fostering without my consent. Thing is he's trying to get us in trouble with the police and social services. He's living 2 minutes away from me and now I don't want to live here.
He doesn't care about his family at all. He rings up calling me a slut and calls his dad for being disabled.
I don't like the people he's living with I think they are making things worst. I got told to stop claiming benefits for him so they could. Then the social worker wanted money off me because he needed pants. They wouldn't buy him any till the back pay come in then I saw him last week and he said they have brought him a watch for £150 and still no pants. He is promised a phone clothes and other stuff but it's taking a long while to get them. When I saw him he looked greasey and has lost weight he had scretch marks on his arm and some rash. But the social worker says he's safe where he is.
He hasn't spoken to his dad for ages but seems to be interested in what his dad feels about him not coming home.
I don't see a way out of this.

Sal

I've had an awful afternoon - can't bring myself to go into the details but it's pretty devastating about something DD has done, and lied to us about. Given that she and I have been building a really good relationship over the past few months, it's broken my heart (again) and now trust in her is just rock bottom. Also it's something that could have serious repercussions for her and it's really difficult to support her (as it's going to be really tough) but also make her realise how serious it is. God, this stuff just never ends and I'm emotionally drained.

@teenTraumaTrials hand hold for you.
My own dd(17) lied to me today also
Shes not home yet and let her phone die.
She threatened to end her life because I caught her out on a lie.
She was to go to McDonald's after school with her friend then meet her boyfriend and go to a football match.
She ended up going to a house after school doing God knows what I'm so mad with the lying and because off covid19 and she just mixes away with people.
The only way I get the truth is telling her I'll contact her boyfriend mum to ask where they are.
Am I wrong wanting to know where a 17 year old is after school she says I am but I think I'm right.
I have caught her lying alot because she knows she is doing wrong
I let her have a drink. I allow her have her bf in her room and stay over so it's not like I don't let her do things.
Just not lie or go to bad areas or smoke.

Thanks @Andi2020 - I know - the lying is just so hard to deal with.

In our case she has lied about this thing so many times (because she knows it's wrong) despite us giving her so many opportunities to tell us the truth.

I don't think it's wrong of you to want to know where your DD is - it's just courtesy.

@TeenTraumaTrials the football game is over still no sign of her phone on 2% she just text are you in bed as I get up early for work.

@Andi2020 I really hope she gets home ok.

@TeenTraumaTrials she got home came in all sorry said it was my fault for messaging her that her phone died
Everything they do is a mums fault
I always back down cause I'm scared she will run away or kill herself if I give out to much.
So my plan is to leave her too late in the morning to meet bf before school
I have it set up with others in house to dally about and not rush I know it sounds mean but she needs to learn it cant be all her way.

@sadless they can't arrange private fostering without your consent. Do not agree to anything for now but get hold of a family lawyer that does legal aid. You are entitled to free advice. I'm not saying you wouldn't agree but you must not be pressured. Pm me if you don't know how to find a family lawyer in your area.

Remember there are county lines groomers out there who will feed your children lines. Very important to torotect our teens even if they r living separate from us.

@andi2020 there is nothing wrong with mums being benevolently manipulative.

@teentraumatirials I so agree and the irony is, it's the teens who claim that trust is the issue.

@whysotriggered I'm afraid we r likely doomed. He is interested in a tech design area where this particular outfit is streets ahead in the industry. That's why I promoted it for so many years. Now I am the victim of my own success as he is (rightly) hooked up on that outfit. I'm hoping he gets better to deal with by next year as I can't go on being hated at this level.
So sad but glad to say my dh now sympathises with my position as he did not get it before he too was ground down to rubble by the relentless hate and misery.
Tonight was tolerable over here ladies take it day by day.