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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

479 replies

Pegsinarow · 07/02/2020 15:35

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly! Confused
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

OP posts:
Retrieversarefluffy · 18/06/2020 13:59

Thanks @ComplexNeeds and @Pegsinarow, I think we do just need to grit our teeth and get through it. Girlfriend currently lives with her mum. Each week pre-Covid restrictions they'd stay 2 nights at her house, 1 night at ours. I'm not up for more than that, I need my own space in my own home.

ComplexNeeds · 18/06/2020 14:02

I made a note in my mind that I need to be less objective-focused in our exchanges and just "be" and try and go with the flow etc.
Oh my goodness your comment seriously resonates and something I very much need to focus on!

gandalf456 · 02/07/2020 14:33

Hi. I have been struggling a bit with my teen and recently posted something about her swearing on the Teenager forum.

I have been trolled to high heaven. I just wonder if anyone on here could share some proper support/wisdom more than - well, I'm 20 and would never have sworn in my house and I have 2 grown up children and they would never have dared swear at me - because this is beyond unhelpful. Thank you.

Staywithmemyblood · 03/07/2020 00:02

@gandalf456 - handhold from me 💐 I have been there with the swearing/verbal abuse from my DD, peaking aged 13-14. She is now 15 and it is thankfully much reduced. For that period though it was pretty soul destroying and relentless.

Like your DD, ours responded really badly to negative consequences and became even more angry and totally defiant. I was called a bitch, a cunt, weak, a shit mum, a failure, even a fucking whore. My mental health was in tatters and my anxiety levels sky high. I started taking sertraline just to be able to function each day as I couldn't sleep or work and wanted to hide from the world. Even DH took AD's for a while. DH and I thought we were 'good parents' - DD has a supportive and loving home and the primary school years were easy. She has just been an extremely challenging teen.

So what has changed? DD's foul language towards us was always used when she was angry. We paid for some anger management counselling for her so she learned to recognise her triggers and remove herself from the situation until she felt calmer.

She also had CBT sessions to help her gain more control over her emotions and learn relaxation techniques.

We have boxercise gloves and pads so we can use them when DD wants a physical outlet for her frustration. It's good fun 😄🥊

There was no overnight change, but we pulled her up on her language and attitude every time. As I said, consequences didn't work well, just developed deep seated resentment and defiance and became a power struggle. A better approach was to talk to her when things were calm and explain it was unacceptable.

DH and I also have done the strengthening families programme (it's really aimed for parents of pre-teens, but was still very helpful). I think the best thing we learned was to communicate with your teen by using the format:
"I feel ............ when you.................... because................ and next time I would like ............."

Maybe all other parents already know this, but it has been a revelation for us. It doesn't criticise or blame, but is assertive and respectful. Best of all, it works for our defiance-prone DD! 😅👍🏻

Another thing that works for us is having weekly family meetings. We take turns at being chairperson, start with all saying something that's gone well that week, discuss our plans for the coming week and ask for any support we'll need. Then get on to issues we need to discuss ( we are still agreeing our family rules - eg: one is that we talk to each other respectfully without shouting or swearing), then finish up with a funny story or game if we have time.

Things are still far from perfect - before lockdown she was regularly refusing to go to school and during lockdown she has done very little school work. She has finally reached the top of the CAMHS waiting list, so hopefully it won't be long before they restart their face to face meetings. She still kicks off pretty regularly, but it blows over far quicker and is much more controlled (recently she contented herself with calling DH a sad weirdo with no friends, rather than the tirade of swear words she previously used. I know it's still totally unacceptable - I agree it's the attitude as well as the language, but for us it's a step in the right direction at least).

Anyway, this has become very long- sorry! If you've managed to get this far, I hope it helps a little, or even just reassures you you are not alone. You've got this! 💐🍫🍷🍰

gandalf456 · 03/07/2020 10:33

Thanks for your reply. I was feeling very fragile yesterday. Of all things, I'd not long been back from a funeral and, aside from dealing with the feelings of loss, we saw that the girls on the other side of the family were so polite, helping their mum with food prep, passing around drinks etc. It really hurt to realise that we hadn't managed to achieve this but I also said to DH that they haven't had half of the problems we have and we have actually made a lot of progress, like you, from the age of 13 or so when she was regularly smashing up her room, breaking valuables, banging her head against the wall, screaming she wanted to die. Mental health issues do run on both sides of the family and more heavily on DHs. Although, on the surface, everything looks fine, there is a history of things being swept under the carpet and not talked about, whereas, although my family are quite bad, they tend not to hide things.

Now we are actually just getting swearing at us and the occasional breakage (usually accidental through carelessness now), we are doing comparatively well but posting on that thread brought it home to me just how far we have to go to be anywhere near normal and just how judgemental people are, including those who are closest to us.

My early parenting experience has been a struggle with sleep, toilet training, speech therapy, anxiety, falling behind at school - all of this was in spite of interventions and being guided by professionals. Again, a lot of common and garden recommendations, which do work with my 11 year old if I persevere, do not work with her, and we have had the same judgemental attitudes from professionals who ought to know better. We also nearly got an ADHD diagnosis. CAMHS professional convinced she had it and most certainly had traits if not full blown, but this was retracted because someone in the school, which has been a shower of shite in terms of support, did not agree.

Sorry, I have really gone on but I do appreciate your tips and need to find a way of introducing some sort of family pow wow to establish some ground rules, as you have done. It is very reassuring to read that you have had similar and that you also found many of the usual techniques did not work and had to try something else and are doing things that we are trying so we can't be far wrong. Our kids are just more challenging, I guess!

Pegsinarow · 03/07/2020 15:31

Gandalf if it's any consolation my dd has hurled some fairly harsh insults at me too and they are always calibrated to hit the mark (ie directed at something I am particularly sensitive about). For a while, like Staywithmemyblood I was very low about it indeed and really took them to heart. I contemplated ADs too and haven't entirely dismissed the idea of taking them, even now.

Not swearing so much (well a tiny bit) but she said I was a crap mum, a shit mum, that all her friends' mums were more attractive and earned more (!), and most often that she hated me and wished I were dead ... oh and the best one .. I wish you hadn't survived your operation.

After that, I learned not to take her insults at face value because I know for sure that she doesn't hate me or want me dead but she may have done in that split second ifyswim. And she is allowed to dislike me intensely atm. After all, even the way I breathe is wrong! Grin

Sometimes I just think they feel to need to vent their general anger and frustration at life. Or they can't handle the way they think of themselves or their anxiety and so they hand it all over to us to "keep" for a bit. It's pretty wearing and demoralising but it serves a purpose sometimes I think and yes, Staywithmemyblood has the right idea with directing the anger elsewhere.

I also agree with Staywithmemyblood so much about the verbal attacks becoming a power struggle. That is what happened with dd and me and I should have learned to back out (not down!) much sooner. I honestly think she did it sometimes just because she was bored or wanted to provoke "something". Now, as soon as she starts, I walk out of the room. No hesitation or discussion. She knows that she can address whatever is bothering her later with me or dh when she can express it with civility.

We do the family meeting thing too which is more or less successful (the actions emanating from the meeting are more challenging to follow through).

And I must work on the "I feel that ...x and y" technique.

Sometimes I think extreme anger is a sign of frustration that they need more responsibility than they are currently getting or allowed to handle. So (in normal non-Covid times) I would suggest giving them a task that is slightly above their current ability and experience to manage and step back, and let them get on with it. This usually results in a more humble (in a good way) and respectful teen.

I wouldn't have dared to speak to my parents in the way dd speaks to me because I was too afraid of them. So perhaps they feel able to insult us - because they are emotionally closer to us - even though the behaviour is far from ideal of course and not to be encouraged. Also because they feel they have more agency within the family which is a good thing.

And just to reassure you, I can very much remember a situation where we had all had had a massive row with dd screaming at the top of her voice, and 45 mins later, following the arrival of guests, she was handing around canapes, joining in conversation, polite and engaged.
So comparisons are not necessarily helpful Grin
Good luck Flowers Keep hanging on to the end of the rope. You are helping her so much by doing so, even though you are getting burns!

Complexneeds It isn't always easy NOT to have an objective-focused conversation when they have been non-communicative and moody for weeks and you have been storing up qs about the school trip payment, the time they need a lift to x or the amount of money they need for y. So don't be so hard on yourself!

Waves to Retrievers Staywithmemyblood and all PoTs!

Wishing you a calm and peaceful weekend everyone!

OP posts:
gandalf456 · 03/07/2020 23:50

Thanks, pegs. Perhaps she needs a job and to stop lying in bed til 1pm Grin

JessCat75 · 05/07/2020 11:50

I'm so glad I found this thread, my DD14 has been driving us mad now for about a year, smoking, smoking weed, anger and aggression at home, drinking generally every thing you can think of,it's all to do with the terrible friendship group she has, she was at a sleepover last night and I had to come pick her up in the middle of the night when she fell out with one of her friends, found her wandering around outside the house she was meant to be staying in, I'm really struggling and feel like I can't keep her safe...finally got a CAMHS appointment next month so I'm praying things will improve from there but I am at my wits end..it's reassuring to know I'm not the only one in this situation though. Keep wondering where I went wrong with her as my older 2 were nothing like this..

JessCat75 · 05/07/2020 11:54

So glad I found this thread, literally at my wits end with my DD14, she's been driving us mad for over a year now with behavioural problems, smoking weed, drinking, smoking, i could go on, she finally has a CAMHS appointment next month but I'm so stressed and exhausted with it all, I feel I can't keep her safe, it's reassuring to know there are others in the same boat, her friendship group is absolutely awful and it all stems from this.

Andi2020 · 05/07/2020 13:07

@JessCat75 welcome to the thread
You are definitely not alone
There is 2 other threads on this also links are on page 1 off this created by @Pegsinarow and we are thankful to pegs for starting this thread loads of parents have teenagers similar to yours so plenty off advice.
I have 2 dd 17 and 15 and ds 12
Dd1 only stayed at a friends a couple off times and didn't like it.
She likes her home comforts but she causes me plenty off worry I always like to know where she is and who with but she turns location off goes to rough areas. I have went and collected her a few times and it's a real screaming match but she would go back again couple days later.
I did have her friends around for a party about 17 turned up they had a great time in garden shed. So if I let her do more at her own house hoping it will keep her from rough area at least once a week.
She has a lovely wee bf no need for them to go near bad areas but it's where all the fun is .
Come on and have a good old rant it gets it out off our head

JessCat75 · 05/07/2020 13:58

@Andi2020 Thanks for the reply, I'm hoping this friendship group will implode after whatever happened last night, it's so tough trying to deal with her on a day to day basis, it is nice to have somewhere to rant though

Andi2020 · 05/07/2020 14:43

@JessCat75 my dd1 goes around different friend groups every few months she has 2 main friends in school but a wider group has sprung up since a party in February they did zoom quizzes during lockdown and now hang out in each others gardens at least 3 times as week.
They are mostly in couples so when one couple finishes others follow and different friendships form .
My dd1 15 keeps same friend group never have any fallout
So all teenagers are different
Has your dd told you what they fell out over
Probably a boy 🙈

JessCat75 · 05/07/2020 15:07

She said one of them is always mean to her and she had enough, a few of them seem to be properly bitchy and she's not however she's so hung up on being part of a group I think she'd rather have this lot than none at all.

Andi2020 · 06/07/2020 21:48

Having a bad day just can't seem to stand back from the arguments with dd1
She said I'm making her depressed because I'm always at her.
Example I do not like her going in a rough area on town she says there is nothing wrong with it. It's me has the problem but every parent knows it's a rough area.
Her bf and 2 off his friends are having their birthday party in a house there that is another friend.
I said I'll was very disappointed he would do this she screamed and screamed at me told me I was discusting because I asked her if her bf fancied the girl who was hosting his and his 2 friends party
Is this normal that a girl not going with any off the 3 birthday boys would host party for them. She does have her own bf.
I feel I'm going mad that it really is me that over reacts and makes the situation worse. I have no more say in what she does I asked her to stay home tonight and she went out anyway.

Staywithmemyblood · 07/07/2020 10:59

How are things today @Andi2020? Did your DD get home safely last night?

I know you worry about her going to a rough area, but as you say, you can't really stop her, so it's about managing the risk. If she's going to a house party with her friends, and has arranged drop off and pick up, then the risk is very low. She's not wandering the streets meeting randoms. You know where she is, who she's with, what they're doing, and how she's getting home. If you can keep your anxiety under control and don't get into a shouting match she is much more likely to be honest about her plans.

Let her know she can contact you any time she feels unsafe, even agree an emoji she sends you if she wants picked up but doesn't want to appear uncool in front of her friends. If she sends it, you phone her with an 'emergency' at home which means you have to collect her straight away.

It won't stop you worrying, we all do, but next year she could be away to college or uni and you won't know what she's up to, so a practice run now for her to have a bit of freedom and learn what is safe/unsafe is a good thing. Let her know you trust her, but there are risks out there which teenagers are prone to ignore/minimise and it's your job to help her manage.

I don't think there needs to be anything going on between the bf and the party host. She probably is just using the birthdays as an excuse to hold a party 🎉

Hope you're feeling better today 💐🍫🍰☕️

Andi2020 · 07/07/2020 13:02

@Staywithmemyblood she sent a text about 9pm could dh pick them up at 10 then turned phone off again so she left with bf and his dad came back with bf and her dad where she was in between I will never know. She was at shop at top off road off bad area turned phone off so I can only assume she went down .
I just worry about the party house as it is on bad area and police where there one day so didn't look good.
The girl who is hosting the party was at our house last week seems quite.

ExhaustedMom17 · 07/07/2020 16:47

This reply has been deleted

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Bulbousbob · 08/07/2020 15:58

I’m so pleased you lot are here. I’m on my own with my teen. I often feel like a woman on the edge with my 18 year old. He is rude, inconsiderate, verbally abusive, and treats me worse than something you might tread on. I feel weak and can’t believe how my son has turned out or that this is my life. Age 16 he turned into a different person. I’ve been through hell for two years. I’m still struggling with him. He’s no GCSEs, has tried college, didn’t like it, has had three jobs in past year. All of which were part time and he didn’t like any of them. He smokes weed day and night. He’s practically moved his girlfriend in my house. I’m on my own. If I ask him not to do something he laughs on my face and does it anyway. He will soon run out of money and will hassle me relentlessly for it. His dad is only available via phone calls whereby I can hear both of them slagging me off. I’ve tried everything. I’ve now told him he’s got until the end of the year to get a job and find his own place. I simply cannot live this way any longer. I’m so soft though I’ll also probably not follow through but I don’t know what else to do.

Bulbousbob · 08/07/2020 15:58

Sorry that was an essay. Blush

Pegsinarow · 08/07/2020 16:54

Don't apologise Bulbousbob it all sounds really really stressful for you Flowers Particularly when you are on your own and your ex is undermining you. Angry

I'm no expert (my dd harangued me so much yesterday that I was in tears by the end of the afternoon, honestly she was like a dog with a bone) but fwiw I think you are doing the right thing by setting your ds a deadline of moving out with his gf. And I think you are right to say you are not going to support him any longer.

I am never usually one to say "chuck them out at 18 yrs" but it sounds like you have explored every avenue with him and he has thrown it all back in your face. His behaviour is so disrespectful it makes me feel angry on your behalf. [Like father like son perhaps?] Angry

In fact, I think your deadline is rather generous in the circumstances and please don't let yourself be talked out of it. In fact, I would probably say he needs to find a place by November in case things go very quiet at Christmas and then he won't be tempted to leave it until the last minute.

All the signs are imho that he needs to go. Then the smoking weed becomes his problem and no longer yours. He is probably very frustrated and upset with himself but turns all that anger on you. When he is supporting himself he can only blame himself. And he may be humbled and find that real life after all is not as easy as he thought.

I think now you have to focus totally on yourself and it will actually help him if you do so. Totally immerse yourself with your own activities. Don't cook for him, clean for him or do his washing. Don't wait up for him or drive him anywhere or even wait for him to eat dinner. It sounds so awful - and probably goes completely against your kind nature - but I honestly think you just need to get on with your own life and he will eventually benefit from being forced to stand on his own two feet.

If he threatens to stay put then maybe you could arrange to move yourself? This will be incredibly hard but he needs a giant push in to the big wide world as he is stuck in a sort of hellish hinterland which he is finding deeply unsatisfactory and it is completely awful for you.

Please, please follow through. You are doing the right thing Flowers I hope all goes well at the end of the year and please feel free to rant on here in the meantime... .

OP posts:
Pegsinarow · 08/07/2020 17:08

How are you doing today @Andi2020? Hopefully you are feeling a bit less stressed. I totally "get" your anxiety about not wanting your dd to go to the party house in the rough part of town. I would get very het up indeed about that and I often find it hard to walk away and still get sucked in to arguments (only yesterday in fact) when I should know better. But I think Staywithmemyblood offers some very wise words there. We all need to step back sometimes I think. Hope you are ok anyway and things are not as fraught as they were Flowers

@gandalf456 how are things going at yours?

@JessCat75 how is your dd doing? Is she still hanging out with that particular group of "friends"? Is there any chance what with the summer holidays/Covid-19 etc she could move from one friendship group to another, or even to a different school? It all sounds really hard for you and her Flowers

OP posts:
Bulbousbob · 08/07/2020 17:40

Thank you so much. I’m grateful for everything you have said. I’m honestly heartbroken at the prospect of him not being with me but I need to follow through. I’m not convinced I can do it but I’m going to give it a good try.

Pegsinarow · 08/07/2020 18:12

You can do it Bulbousbob! Can you re-frame it in your head from "him not being with me" to you "being kind to your ds's future self" (however armchair psych that sounds!). It will be easier enforcing the boundaries you have laid down when you know it will really benefit your ds in the long-term (even though the short-term may be hellish for both of you.) For example, he will have a much greater incentive to keep a job if there is no bank of Mum to rely on = win/win. Good luck!

OP posts:
Andi2020 · 08/07/2020 21:28

@Pegsinarow worse today she away to another friends house tonight gang off them all together is this Normal for teenagers about 5 nights a week
She booked Saturday off her work for the party in the rough area and now only got 4 hours work next week totally fuming she put her job at risk for a party.
They could have put her on another day but she probably pissed them off by asking and them only started back.
I have to say I totally lossed the plot then she threatened she wont come home so I had to back down.
I love her so much and know I'm away over protective I don't know how to break this cycle off not wanting her out every night.
How many nights do your 16/17 year olds go out.
She is always home by 11 unless an actual birthday which will be later
She has never been drunk. Just out too much. Out as groups off 6 to 15 people 5 nights. 1 night in her house with bf and 1night at his.
It has only got this bad since lockdown lifted.
I am coming out in a while rash tonight thinking about it.

gandalf456 · 08/07/2020 23:08

I am feeling much better now and Dd has met up with a friend or 2 and seems calmer. I can tell she is very hormonal and overreacting to everything and am doing my best to ignore and get dh to deal with her more calmly.

She and Dh had a big blow out at the weekend and she slammed the door so hard she broke the frame. He had just painted it too!

She ended up running off to my sister's. She was a bit snippy with her too - something she doesn't see much. She ended up bursting into tears and confiding in her how worried she is about 6th form.

I'm hoping for a better week