Thread Four: Holding on to the end of the rope

[Pegsinarow]

Hello PoTs!

I am so very sorry to have been absent from the second half of thread three. I've been a overwhelmed by rl: some good, some bad and some a bit ugly!
I hope you are all doing as well as possible in the circumstances.

I saw thread three was on 998 posts and thought I had better start up thread four here!

I'll catch up in a bit but for now the previous threads were as follows:

Thread one here

Thread two here

Thread three here

Welcome back and feel free to vent here! And I'll try to stick around a bit more ... .

@ttwillpass that sounds really hard. We sometimes have phases of this. If course being on lockdown makes everything massively stressful. I quite often try the ‘shower with love’ method and sympathise with how hard it is to get work done, then praise for whatever possible. Is she not speaking to you at all? What about meals? The other option is pull wifi until she’s agreed to discuss with you... Mine won’t do family meetings either. Is she an only?

@Aramox. It is hard. Things have "calmed" down a bit for now but still giving us the silent treatment. She stopped eating with us, cooks for herself but leaves us the mess to clear up. She is 18 and I am hoping that she will be able to go to uni and sort out her anger issues there. Thank goodness she has managed to find a small job recently.
Very sad of course as I miss her...

@ttwillpass glad things are a bit better
But I hope at 18 things would be better that mine know to do their own study
Sometimes we need to step back for less arguing
My dd1 got up around 11 so I gave her task off cleaning bathroom
Dd2 ds dh and me outside

S

Hello all, can I join this thread?

I’ve got a DS who is 15, he usually spends his time 50/50 between me and his dads and he has mainly been with them since lockdown as they were able to home school and keep him company whereas I was out for work 6 days a week.
ExH and
DS stepmum have told me DS is self harming by cutting his arms he doesn't want anyone to know but knows that I am now aware. He doesn’t know why he is doing it or what feelings he has. He’s in a very intense relationship of about 9 months with someone who has a lot of issues in their home life and their own MH issues including self harm. DS is a sounding board for her, listening to all her difficult stuff. DS is adamant he doesn’t want a GP or any kind of Professional input not even from school. I feel like such a failure like it must be my fault or something I did or didn’t do when he was small, or the fact me and his dad split up, or something. I’ve asked him if he wants to come over for a couple of days but he seems reluctant I don’t know what I can do apart from tell him I am here for him, although he’s never really opened up much to me in the past has anyone else been through this? I feel helpless

Hi again PoTs. I've been missing for a while as lockdown has been difficult - not from a teen point of view but just generally as I'm sure it is for everyone.

We actually thought lockdown was a good thing for DD as it took her out of the toxic school environment and she was seeming happier. All of that meant I hadn't been doing much spot checking of her phone - which I did yesterday and that led to an absolutely awful few hours.

Turned out she had downloaded Snapchat again (explicitly something we've said she wasn't to do). So we had shouting and tears about why she had done it (so lonely, only thing people use now etc etc) followed by what appeared to be a reasonable conversation about how she wasn't going to be allowed her phone in her room at all again but that we had decided (falling for the emotional blackmail) not to take it off her phone. Minor trauma but sorted, or not ..........

As a bit later DH went up to her room and found her with an old phone which she had put Snapchat on and was using regularly in the middle of the night to message folk for the past month - explaining the calm acceptance of the punishment that actually wasn't going to impact on her at all. Also explaining the tiredness and headaches she's been suffering from.

DH and I did not react well - he started shouting that he was going to cancel her contract and I, I am ashamed to say, took the phone (the old one) downstairs and took a meat mallet to it. Then we had half an hour of screaming, threatening to run away and having to hold her arms her to stop her leaving the house. Followed by half an hour of tears and self hatred. Just right back where we were months ago or worse.

I barely slept last night and am sitting this morning trying to work with tears in my eyes. We took every piece of tech into our room when we went to bed and turned off the wifi. It shouldn't be like that and I really feel today that I am going to have trouble ever believing a word she says.

I am trying to cling to the fact that she and I were actually getting on better the past few months and she had confided in me about some of the stuff that had happened before when the bullying was at its worst (messages telling her to kill herself etc).

She had been due to start counselling just before lockdown and I am so regretful it took so long to get that in place as I really think so much of her behaviour is coming from desparate unhappiness and self doubt/hatred (well I have to believe that as the alternative is so much worse).

@TeenTraumaTrials hand hold for you what age is your dd
I get all the running away chat somedays too you be so scared they will run away you feel yourself giving into them for fear.
Is she still been threatened on snapchat
I do let mine keep phones during covid19 as all teenagers seem to be on late and they feel left out if they are not can you compromise with a time.
As long as they do something school related or do some house cleaning.
I let them do their own thing.
I have had few stressful days with dd1 since the ease off lockdown she going out too much.

Hi Just want to introduce myself , lived in uk for ten years but now live back in ireland - have a 14DD, she seems to be having some problems - no friends- no social life at all - lives learning but hates school - hates this town where we live ) she moved back when 10. I am struggling with her behaviour and her low moods and will read these threads as it is an eye opener that I am not on my own and we are not the only parents struggling with our teenager. Thanks for letting me sit back and feel a tad normal - some fantastic advice and reassurance. Thanks

@louloulazy welcome to the thread glad you find the thread helpful.
Its good to have a rant gets it out off our system.
I'm also in Ireland but my teenagers are out too much.

Hi LouLouLazy - sorry to hear your DD is not happy. Since my DD started having problems with friends over 6m months ago she has said on a regular basis she hates school and where we live. DH has talked about moving but DS is just about to start secondary school and I can't risk one child's happiness over another's. DD is talking about leaving school after S5 if she can get the grades for Uni - not a great plan and I hope she reconsiders but I can see where she is coming from. I'd advise just being there for your DD and listening - if she is unhappy she may turn to online friends and that can lead to it's own problems.

Andi2020 - thanks - yes we've let her keep it but on the proviso that her phone doesn't go upstairs. She is also being overly helpful around the house which is either an attempt to make amends or out of guilt. We're letting her on it later too as the previous cut-off was 9pm

And we've now blocked the wifi overnight (I know!) so any new attempts to use old devices to be messaging in the middle of the night (which I've hidden too) should be thwarted. The (sad) irony of it all is that the boy she was mostly breaking the rules to message overnight has now ghosted her.

Dd1 out and police came to the house she is at she text me and asked if I rang them.
I tried to ring her she wouldn't answer sent my dh to get her wouldn't come home.
She spoke to me on Dh phone said she found out police came with some paperwork.
I am really worried about her been in a house police came too.
They where all drinking
I am in an absolute meltdown please someone calm me down with a reason police would come to a house before she comes home at 11 and I throw a fit

Hello PoTs, I hadn't noticed that this thread had sprung back to life! Sorry to take ages to get back on here. I guess that it is no coincidence that teens are kicking of really, given the stresses and strains of lockdown, it's very hard for them (and for us).

DD is absolutely vile atm I'm afraid to say. It is really getting me down. I'm walking on eggshells in my own home. And every single exchange - even those that revolve around nice things such as what she would like to do during the summer or for her birthday - end up in really vicious arguments (from her side I should say, I really try my best to keep calm). I blame myself of course because I think I must have made some horrible mistakes for our relationship to have deteriorated like this.

It's such a shame because she was really coming through it and getting better, and I think lockdown has undone all recent progress.

Anyway, sorry, that was very "me, me" and not very comforting for everyone on here to read.

So sorry that I didn't see your recent message @Andi2020 how are things now? What happend wrt police involvement? Was your dd OK when she came home? I hope you are ok too

How is your dd doing @TeenTraumaTrials? I am sorry you felt so let down when you checked her phone and had the trauma with the old phone. Have you been able to access any counselling for your dd since lockdown began? Or are appts opening up again maybe? I hope things have calmed down a little anyway.

Hello @undecidedforever2020 Welcome to the thread! I'm really sorry to hear about your son self-harming. You must be worried sick. What has happened since you posted. Are you both OK? You are not a failure. Have you seen this advice from Young Minds on the subject: here?

*@ttwillpassare things going with your dd? Is she still able to do her job and has that improved things any? I am sorry you are going through all this stress.

You too @sandwiches77 I seem to be the focus of all of dd's angst so I blame myself too.

@DorsetCamping how are the home edding battles going? It must be very hard for you currently, especially when teens don't seem to give a jot wrt any personal sacrifices made on their behalf. I have delayed moving house for two years so that I could see my dd through school and launch her off to uni but she seems to resent me for it.

@Aramox how are things with you?

Keep hanging on PoTs, I realise things are utterly crap atm, and the prospect of the holidays isn't exactly filling us with joy this summer.

I am dreading it frankly if dd isn't able to get some sort of job or organise some sort of activity (this is what we were arguing about because she hasn't done anything about it yet and won't accept any suggestions or help from me).

[And let's not go there about September because I don't think I will be able to cope if schools don't open fully.]

Anyway, hang in there everyone. One day at a time. And do feel free to vent on here!

@Pegsinarow,
It is nice to hear your positive voice again on this thread! DD not back in the fold yet alas but things are calmer for now.
I try to comfort myself that I can only be in Donald Winnicott's phrase "a good enough mother"
blogs.psychcentral.com/mindful-parenting/2013/09/the-gift-of-the-good-enough-mother/

Can I join too please? I’m going to start with thread 1 and read everything. I’ve 3 DDs but find my eldest (16; lower 6th) trickiest as she’s so withdrawn, rude and simply doesn’t engage. She’s always been quiet and introverted but the last couple of years she’s impossible to reach/read. I found out from someone that she’s been self harming since yr10. She told the person in confidence and I’m struggling with how to help her. I’m not her favourite person so don’t think I’m best suited but????

@ComplexNeeds welcome to the thread.
We are all hear for the same reason.
Its good to vent. It gets it out off your own head and always someone with similar teenagers that can help each other
I have no experience to offer on self harm. But plenty off advice on threads
I hope you are doing ok yourself
During lockdown I got back into reading reading helps to distract from teen drama.
The biggest problem I have with dd1 is lying she said she lies because I wouldn't let her do some things if she told me.

Thanks Andi2020 I used to lie as a teen all the time. I’m expecting that. Impossible to trust fibbers though!!!

@complexneeds in my view she is still keeping up yesterdays lies so to clear it up. I am going to drive her to where she says she was and see where the location shows on snap map when we are actually together. I hope I'm right.
May be tomorrow before I go as her bf here at the moment.

I have not read all the threads related to this but I just desperately need someone to talk to and DH has decided he has had enough and does not want to get involved as it will become a bigger argument. The issue started when DS got home at 9.45 pm today when we had previously agreed no later than 9 pm (is this unreasonable, I don't know?) He has obviously been in lockdown with us so like most others not been out much over the past few months but the 9 pm rule has been in place since before lockdown.
The context is my DS (16), not particularly interested in studying and he was the class of 2020 so all exams cancelled which gave him further ammunition to not study and he literally gave up and is on the PS4 24/7.
He is going to 6th form, he says, and some transitional work has come through but he has not bothered looking into it, I push him to just get it over and done with but no luck. This lack of focus with studies and just life, in general, has been driving DH up the wall for a very long time now and it has finally come to a head where DH has literally just told me that DS is a loose cannon and he cannot be bothered to converse with him, their relationship is already strained for several reasons such as DS not pulling his weight around the house, disrespectful behaviour, usual teen stuff really but DH is Asian and was bought up in Asia, so his perception of parenting is very different and this creates the perfect storm in our house, hence the ultimatum today that he will not spend more time on this issue as he is a lost cause essentially. Needless to say, I need his support and whilst he is amazing in every other way, this has really let me down. I need to add that DS can be helpful and do chores around the house if we ask him, not always done to the standard we would do it but nonetheless he does it.
I am sitting here in tears as I feel so alone, I honestly do not know how to handle the constant rebellious behaviour and all my DH sees is that DS is being disrespectful and he will not engage with someone like that!

Good morning all!

User101 I'm so sorry that you feel so right now - it all sounds really hard - and even worse that you feel alone with it all. Rest assured you can come on here and vent any time.

In the often quoted Mumsnet phrase, it sounds like you have a dh problem as much as there is a teen issue here (which sounds like a pretty "normal" teen rebellion to me). My dd is the same age as your ds and she is only doing school work because her school (not in UK) have made the children sit three exams in their three weakest subjects so that they have to keep it engaging until the end of term. If it wasn't for that, I don't think she would be doing that much study tbh and anyway, all school work stops in a couple of days.

Fwiw, I would say, first of all, cut yourself some slack, we are in the midst of a global pandemic and it is an unprecedented situation. Everyone is feeling the strain. Also, you cannot help the cultural differences that inform your dh's perspective. Finally, it is really unpleasant to be piggy in the middle between two opposing factions. You are not responsible for any of that and you shouldn't have to be the one that constantly suffers because of it.

[Btw, how do your dh and ds get on when you are not in the house? Do you have any other dc? Three is a difficult number sometimes! ]

So if I could (I have no idea if this is correct advice or not mind you) I think I would call a family meeting and make it very clear that this can't continue and you are not going to engage with their arguments any more seeing the two people you love the most in the world at odds is causing you too much grief and stress. Then I would try and step back, withdraw as much as possible, and get on with your own projects. Don't allow yourself to get drawn in or involved in any arguments. Keep cool and calm and aloof. Say you will only engage with them both if they are civil to one another. Are there any activities you could do all together that you would enjoy to try and alter the mood a little bit?

Then I would take your dh away from the house somewhere and make it clear that his reaction to a child being home 45 mins later than planned (personally I think a curfew of 9pm for a sixteen year old who doesn't have school the next day quite harsh) isn't great but maybe the time that he required your ds to be back home was a little early? Remind him that parenting isn't about rules so much as a relationship.

Then could you ask your dh about his relationship with his own parents. What were his perceptions of his parents as a child and then a teen? What are his expectations of his son? Would he be willing to engage in a parenting course or just take his son out occasionally to do something together they both enjoy to get their relationship back on an even footing?

Good luck User010 it all sounds really difficult Can you ringfence some time just for yourself to day to go out and get some peace for yourself?

Thanks for your lovely comment ttwillpass (especially when I thought I was being quite moany ). Thank you so much for that link. It is really helpful. Especially the bit about it HELPING a child if their parents fail him or her in a few minor ways now and then as "that's life" and it allows them to develop resilience. I will keep that in mind!

I received a very nice letter from dd the other day apologising for being so horrible which was surprisingly reflective and I must admit I feel hugely better for reading it. Unbeknown to me (because she hadn't said!) she had already been making plans for the summer/her birthday and she misunderstood the plans that I was suggesting. Essentially we were both aiming for the same thing but had misinterpreted each other. It just shows how communication can go badly wrong when two people are hurt and angry with one another.

Welcome to the thread ComplexNeeds I'm really sorry to hear about your dd self-harming. You must be so worried about her. .
That's an especially really tricky situatiion when you have heard through a third party too. Did you see the link posted below about self-harming from Young Minds? Here it is again here. As for the withdrawing, I think that is a pretty normal part of teen life for some adolescents. They are preparing themselves for independence and a safe first step, is to isolate in their bedrooms, so I wouldn't worry about that too much. Obviously, it's very difficult though when you are not able to communicate. Could you take her on a drive or engage her in an activity where you are alongside one another (not facing each other directly) so that it is easier to speak? Good luck

Andi good luck with sorting out truth from fiction!! This article here is quite interesting about adolescents lying. A lot of it is about establishing autonomy and engaging in a world that is separate to us I think. My dd doesn't lie but there again she doesn't tell us much about what is going on at the time at all! She only get to hear about it months/years afterwards! It is a bit scary I must admit.

Take care everyone! Remember to try and take some time out for yourselves if at all possible.

Sorry I was rushing typing that down, hence some mistakes/omissions...

ComplexNeeds I meant to say that, hearing through a third party or not, fwiw I think I would intervene if I heard that my child was self-harming. It's a difficult one though.

UserO10 meant to say that I thought your dh's reaction was a little extreme

Andi that should have read "WE only get to hear about it weeks/months later!

Hello PoTs. Our DS (19) has asked if his girlfriend can move in with us. We've said no as it doesn't work for us - not enough space - we don't want an extra person here using bathroom / kitchen. No objection to girlfriend she's very nice and welcome to stay over once a week but we do not want to live with her. Since saying no (5 days ago) DS is completely blanking me and DH, ignoring us when we talk to him and generally creating an oppressive atmosphere at home. We're not going to change our minds. Ideally he needs to move out I know but not sure how economically viable that's going to be - he does work full time but minimum wage. His reaction has been so OTT I'm starting to wonder if we've been unreasonable. Any suggestions on the way through this? My DH thinks we should just ignore him until he starts talking to us again but I hate living with the current atmosphere.

@pegsinarow the 3rd party is someone who she’s confided in, and I can’t throw them under the bus as it’ll totally damage that relationship. I have to find a work around.

Oh forgot to thank you for the young minds link... it’s pretty good. Thanks! Good to know the withdrawing to room is relatively normal. I’m planning on doing some activities as a family as we are all a bit separate at the mo and need to come together. That sounds crazy when we’re all not going out. I had a short drive with her today. I agree minimal eye contact works well. Nothing much said but it’s a start!
@Retrieversarefluffy I’d hold my ground and let him sulk tbh. I don’t think you are being remotely unreasonable.

Can't believe I've never found you guys before! Or your previous 3 threads.

Just place-marking. Will go back and have a good read. Thank you.

Hi oblomov you were seriously supportive in 2018 when my DD1 was having a horrific time with bullying (I’ve name changed). Thank you for that!! Sorry you’re having a tough time with a teen, which I’m guessing you must be, to be here.

Oblomov -Welcome back!I definitely remember you on the second thread (linked in op) and looked back and found a post from you on 7th June 2019. As I recall I think you were with us earlier (not sure which thread) when you were job hunting (and you had some health issues perhaps? - forgive me if I have remembered this incorrectly as the threads have so many contributors now, I may have confused you with someone else).

Complexneeds no it doesn't sound crazy about needing to do a bonding family activity when you are all living together anyway - it's about quality over quantity. Totally understood about the 3rd party issue btw, although I suppose it depends on how bad the self-harming is/or if it becomes more serious? I wonder if there is a current film or tv series which touches on the subject that you could watch together that would open up the discussion?

I (quite by chance) had a long chat with dd last night when she was recounting the high- and low- lights of school trips of old. It felt good to have her happy and animated and laughing with me for once and not just with her friends! While it was going on, it crossed my mind that we just sit and chat far too rarely, as I am so often fire-fighting with her, or tackling some issue, or there is some ongoing dispute happening. And I made a note in my mind that I need to be less objective-focused in our exchanges and just "be" and try and go with the flow etc.

Retrieversarefluffy eek that's a tough one. I think you are totally within your rights to refuse though. What are her living circumstances that have led to this situation? (Obviously, feel free to not answer that q here if too outing.) Could you compromise and offer two nights - say Fri and Sat?