How do I back down from this?

[CrazyHorse]

DD (14yo) asked for a pair of shoes while out shopping. Rudely, without explaining why she wanted/needed them.

DH told her she was behaving like a spoilt brat and walked out of the shop.

DD asked the shop assistant if she could try them on but they didn't have her size.

I had a chat to DD and told her no way would we be buying her anything if she was being so rude to us. I told her to apologise to DH and she offered a sulky "I'm sorry"

Having had time to consider the shoes, I now think she does actually need them. How do I go about buying them for her without rewarding her rudeness. She tends to be most rude when she's anxious, and she's anxious because she does need theses shoes.

What exactly does she ‘need’ these Doc Martins for?

Why can’t she use pocket money or any savings she might have for them?

@IncrediblySadToo - they'd don't need to be DMs, it's not a Doctor Martin convention or anything They need to be smart lace up shoes which will go with the clothes she has. She obviously could wear her school shoes but they wouldn't look great (I'm much more bothered than DD about this) or one of several scruffy pairs of Vanns which she loves, which DD would happily wear but just wouldn't be smart enough, or her trainers or snow boots rather than have bare feet, but I want her to look OK.

And for those wondering why they have to be lace up, it's because DD has weirdly narrow feet, so technically they could have buckles, but not be slip on.

One of the reasons I agreed to let her try them on in the shop was because I thought she'd realise they'd be too wide for her. We still don't know the answer to that.

She doesn't have any savings she knows about. She chooses to immediately spend every penny she's given or earns, all her Christmas money was spent pretty much immediately. She spends all her monthly pocket money on the first day she gets it, and is happy to go without things for the rest of the month. We've tried various tactics to get her to save and it's something she's still learning. DS is the opposite and refuses to ever spend any money, so I don't think that's a parenting thing.

She's a shoe size 7 for those who are interested.

Not convinced Docs come under the heading of “smart” footwear, tbh.
Why would anyone be interested in her shoe size?

I have no idea why anyone would be interested in her shoe size. I was being facetious.

If DM shoes aren't smart what are? What do teenagers wear on their feet for flat and smart lace ups?

I was going to post about the comment she made that you don't know what her life is like..and that you need to find out what her life is like.

Then many posts later you say she pulls her hair out from anxiety and she receives professional help.

And that she's been bullied over not having the right hair and shoes.

And you post about her behaviour buying shoes? Do you not see any correlation between her anxiety over shoes and her behaviour? Not saying you should tolerate rudeness but her trichotillomania can be life ruining and it 100% causes her huge amount of heart ache and anxiety, depression and stress.

Anyway, next time don't take her shopping she can order her shoes online.

DD wears lace up DM for school and now 6th form. They are very popular (and hard wearing, good quality shoes)

trichotillomania can be life ruining Yes I get that, which is why I'm very much trying to consider how I parent.

I didn't take her shoe shopping, we passed a shoe shop. It was all going we'll until that point.

I agree with posters who are saying it runs deeper. I've said this as I also have a ds with asd like the OP.

But what I think needs separating is the anxiety and behaviour.
You can be sympathetic, empathetic and model better ways.

But the OP actually is right in my mind the more she posts. She doesn't want her dd to think swearing gets her what she wants. But she can't ever not buy her shoes again!
She's separating them and if she was going to buy shoes anyway (which wasn't clear at the beginning) doing it as a separate event and "we need to get you shoes for x" is a good way forward.

I said before. If my ds reacted like that I'd explain why his reaction was unacceptable and guide him towards a better way of communicating. If he then communicated to me at a later date effectively we'd move on and he may possibly get item (if it was genuinely needed).
Or he may get the same answer with an explanation and he will still have to accept it!

OP my ds also does this whole eventful story about things as a way to introduce needing or wanting an alternative. I often find myself saying "stop telling me the history as I can't change that and tell me the future as I maybe able to help you achieve what you want"

I find with the shoes his whole story about it falling off would be to get me to ask him if he needed new ones or offer him new ones because he finds it extremely hard to communicate he needs new things.

It all sounds such a frustrating set up, so you took her shopping for shoes but then said “I am not sure we can get you any shoes today” then she flipped out

I mean, her language was not ok but what kind of shopping expedition is that, where you send mixed messages about getting her shoes, but then warning her you are not getting her shoes (maybe )

My teens would not have enjoyed a “shopping” outing like that

What was the point of it all?

No, that is not what happened at all.

I'm off to bed.

I always tried to install some self regulation into my children.

The fact she’s been helpful today shows some remorse in her actions. She’s trying to get back in your good books by doing chores. Almost a self punishment.

But isn’t that what we want? For them to recognise when they are wrong and put it right? Albeit clumsly teen behaviour?

It sounds like you want her to have the shoes to ‘look right’ for this occasion, if she already has school lace up shoes surely she can wear those?

And the fact that she ‘always immediately spends her pocket/gift money’ is the perfect opportunity for you to say ‘if you hadn’t spent your pocket money you could buy the shoes of your choice.

My teenage DS used to like to buy trendy trainers, he soon realised that we were not prepared to buy them so he got a paper round, saved up his present money & bought his own.

I also can't get past the fact that you are policing how she looks - picking shoes that you think would look good. As long as she is compliant with school dress policies and isn't going downtown on a Saturday in a thing bikini, at 14 she should be allowed to choose her own clothes.

Give her pocket money weekly until she learns how to save. Standing order into a bank account is easily done.

@CrazyHorse

I’m somewhat disappointed it’s NOT a DM convention!🤣

I think that given everything you’ve said about DD, there’s much more going on with her than simply being a brat the other day. Definitely things to look into. A diagnosis would her her to understand why she feels/behaves as she does and help you ALL to find the best strategies to help her feel less anxious - and moderate her behaviour

Shoes. YOU are the one who wants her to have new ones because you think they’ll look better.

But you said She has a perfectly good pair of quality lace up school shoes. I think you should just give them a clean and a proper polish. They’ll be just fine, surely? Apart from the drama about these shies, it seems pointless buying DM’s for a growing teenager when she has school shoes already and vans she loves etc.

@TheHumansAreDefinitelyDead. At least do the OP of a thread the courtesy of reading their posts if you’re going to chime in. You can go into settings to highlight OP’s posts, or simply do a page search.

But you didn’t realise you wanted her to have new shoes until she started swearing at you? You really are desperate to make excuses so you can get her the shoes aren’t you?!

@73Sunglasslover
Your attitude of handwringing and analysing is why kids become manipulative and demanding because you excuse it label
atrocious behaviour.
I’m now on my 4th teenager and have yet to be told to fuck off by a tantrum king one, they were taught respect and boundaries unlike this spoiled brat.

We can agree to disagree. My kids have both been described as 'role models' at parents evening, so I don't think the outcomes you envisage are inevitable. I think you are conflating 'understanding and teaching' with 'excusing' but each to their own.