How do I back down from this?

[CrazyHorse]

DD (14yo) asked for a pair of shoes while out shopping. Rudely, without explaining why she wanted/needed them.

DH told her she was behaving like a spoilt brat and walked out of the shop.

DD asked the shop assistant if she could try them on but they didn't have her size.

I had a chat to DD and told her no way would we be buying her anything if she was being so rude to us. I told her to apologise to DH and she offered a sulky "I'm sorry"

Having had time to consider the shoes, I now think she does actually need them. How do I go about buying them for her without rewarding her rudeness. She tends to be most rude when she's anxious, and she's anxious because she does need theses shoes.

But it is not usual, I think, for children to be anxious because they need shoes and that suggests there is something behind that.

She doesn't need the shoes. She wants them. She has thrown a tantrum and told both parents to f&ck off. She is manipulative and her mother would have simply capitulated if they had her size. She is a spoiled 14 year old and unless her parents stop indulging her tantrums, she will become a spoilt, tantrum prone adult.

She was using the f word? How is that just rude? It’s downright dire spectacle and I wouldn’t have dared speak to my parents like that.
Anxious or not, this isn’t about the shoes, there is clearly a big issue in communication. Your DH is speaking to her wrong, she is ‘rude’ and I get the impression punishment and discipline is no where to be seen

There’s no way I’d buy her a pair of shoes after being told to fuck off and go away. Why are you putting her obnoxious behaviour down to “anxiety”? And ing about it, too... Do you find it amusing?
Can you elaborate on the shoes being socially acceptable? To whom?
You sound as bad as she is, tbh. Little wonder your dh reacted the way he did.

@73Sunglasslover
Your attitude of handwringing and analysing is why kids become manipulative and demanding because you excuse it label
atrocious behaviour.
I’m now on my 4th teenager and have yet to be told to fuck off by a tantrum king one, they were taught respect and boundaries unlike this spoiled brat.

I wasn't using the hangry example as an excuse JKScott4. I have observed a direct link between low blood sugar and angry behaviour in my teen. I do not tolerate rudeness.

@strategic
I get hungry and tired but don’t start shouting and swearing, 14 is not a little child, if her parents hadn’t spoiled and indulged her they wouldn’t be here now. I’m sorry but if your teen can’t control themselves I doubt it’s just down to hunger 🙄

I have a feeling the OP might not return to this thread...

I'd let her get shoes if she really needs them but not the shoes she asked for. A consequence of her bad manners.

You sound a bit rude yourself - and certainly not as if you were being calm, patient etc.

Most poster's here have no real idea about anxiety as opposed to being a bit anxious. For my DC actually getting them into a shop at times during the teenage year was a major achievement.
OP were you also getting anxious, overwhelmed, and maybe low blood sugar? Because on reflection you realised she did need the shoes. Just she couldn't express why at the time.
One of my DC struggles at times to express themselves - we tend to put this down to their dyslexia. Dyslexia is not just about reading, but it and related conditions can affect the ability to put thoughts into words.

I’m now on my 4th teenager and have yet to be told to fuck off by a tantrum king one, they were taught respect and boundaries unlike this spoiled brat. Or none of your teenagers have huge issues going on as well as being teens?

Personally I wouldn't be buying them. But understand the pressures about fitting in for teenagers, so can appreciate that this may feel like a need rather than a want.

I'd sit down with her and explain that as she would like them you are prepared to buy them, but demanding and foot-stamping will get her nowhere in life, with you or anyone else. However, putting in some work for things she wants - earning them - is the way forwards? Don't know what she already does chorewise, but maybe set a couple of additional tasks at home, dishwasher emptying and filling, walking the dog etc, and she can have them. She doesn't do them, she doesn't get them.

There's plenty of things I need and want in life. And I have to work to earn for them. Don't think it's ever too young to learn that lesson.

@MollyButton
Not every child has issues, they can be rude and ill behaved. The OP stated she has always manipulated her dad to get her way and now is swearing and tantruming to be bought shoes. There isn’t always anxiety, ASD, do we never teach kids to take responsibility for their choices, behaviours? just excuse it because it’s anxiety etc
My DS has high functioning Aspergers and is very respectful, polite and has never used it as an excuse to be a brat. So do go away with your armchair psychology crap.

My ds has anxiety and asd.

He still wouldn't be getting shies because he swore at me in a shop.

What he would get was a calm chat about why he behaved that way. Guidance on why it wasn't acceptable and some phrases and opportunities for practising them to communicate properly and effectively next time.

There are many Mners who have anxiety. It's thanks to them and their honesty I've been able to understand and support ds more.
I don't think any of them would think it's ok for them to go into work on Monday and f and blind at their employer because they want something and aren't sure how to ask for it. What they'd do is practice how to ask. Thing of replies or send an email.

@itsgettingweird
Thankfully someone with sense 🥰

What they'd do is practice how to ask

OPs DD clearly has been taught to ask nicely and she was capable of that at a much younger age. What’s changed?

I would have also reminded them of the correct way to ask for something ‘Do you mean ‘.....’ ?

I still wouldn’t have brought them.

I’m wondering also if DH has put his foot down about the shoes and DD is still upset at being denied them and OP feels stuck in the middle.

Obviously the choice is ‘Your dad has said no due to your embarrassing behaviour’

Also, if you do end up buying them you will be completely undermining your DH. Which won't bode well for future disagreements

I get hungry and tired but don’t start shouting and swearing, 14 is not a little child, if her parents hadn’t spoiled and indulged her they wouldn’t be here now. I’m sorry but if your teen can’t control themselves I doubt it’s just down to hunger 🙄

I never said it was just down to hunger. Teens moods are generally more up and down than adults. But I did say that having low blood sugar does have a negative effect on my child's moods.

Step up and sanction to give your poor kids some boundaries. Here's a simple formula for parents with teens:

1. Empathise. Simply recognise their frustration. Do not excuse their behaviour, recognise their emotional response. Big important difference there.

1. Be outraged by the behaviour. State how it is not acceptable as a member of a loving family. Apologise here if your response to their behaviour was not as you'd have liked.

1. Explain the affect their behaviour had on others. Teens go though a natural development of sociopathic traits, they need it spelt out.

1. Sanction, mean it and do it, no backing down, ever. Remove their phone/internet time. Pull the the plug if you have to. This is the step that parents struggle with the most. Your kids need you to be strong here! So does everyone else who will have to deal with these young people.

1. Move on. The sanction is firmly in place seeing it through to the end is all that needs to happen. Look to praise their good behaviour/decisions but do not allow them to barter out of the sanction. You are the boss.

Is there something else going on here, possibly?

Because I can’t join the dots between getting anxious because she needs new shoes, and that anxiety being expressed in telling her parents to fuck off repeatedly.

Neither can I!

Re: the ASD, I have wondered whether she could be on the spectrum - my eldest DS is. Even so, that is NO excuse for the swearing and being rude to me. Neither of my elder DC have ever sworn at me ( apart from the legendary time DS1 put his middle finger up to me behind my back).

She wasn't having a good day before we left, which is why we took her out...DH needed to buy something specific, I went along to make sure he didn't choose an ugly one and we thought it would be better for DD to come along than watch TV all day. She'd been fine up until the shoe shop.

The issues she was having that morning were: her hair wouldn't style the way she wanted it to. DS1 has apparently told her he went back to Uni a few days early because she was annoying him ( I had no idea he'd told her this, I'm cross with him for saying it, and I need to talk to her about it.) It's not true. She adores her brother and misses him when he's not here, yes she does annoy him occasionally in the way that siblings do, but that's certainly not why he went back to uni earlier than she expected.
A boy in her class has been repeatedly mean to her about her hair and her shoes. Not wanting to drop feed: she has a bald patch where she pulled her hair out due to anxiety, which got particularly bad when she was being bullied at school. We are dealing with the hair pulling and have sought professional help. This thread isn't about that. The bullying has stopped.
She has a perfectly good pair of quality lace up school shoes. As she was walking along the corridor in school one of her shoes fell off (I've no idea how) and a few people laughed. She's told me this on Friday evening, but was in a very good mood and didn't seem upset about it. She must have been thinking about it though as she now she wants a pair of Doctor Martens to wear to school, but they will also be good for something she's doing in a couple of weeks time (I can't justify them for school, but I can for the other thing) Fake DMs are a fate worth than death, apparently.

I think that's how I'll approach it...you don't need them for school, but you do need them for X ( I'm not even 100% sure she allowed to wear them for school, but apparently other people do)

She been her usual delightful self today. She's asked very politely for new underwear, then laughed at what I brought home and told me in a nice jokey way, she hoped I'd kept the receipt as, apparently, I'm bad at choosing pants.

If she's not going barefoot then actually she needs to be going without those particular shoes. Permanently.

Swearing in at me in a shop, ever, would be an instant end to the shopping trip. I would return to the car. The child would need to compose herself before getting in the car, unless she fancies making her own way home.

And no further shopping trips would be occurring until she had full control over her behaviour.

(I am renowned for being the super strict parent, though)

No way would I be buying shoes for a teenager that told me to ‘F off’. (And I do have a teenager). She can go without or use her own pocket money/birthday or Christmas money.

Doc martens will hurt for the first few weeks to they break in just incase that’s likely to cause a mass kick off again.

Sports direct also do better outdoorsy boots for like £20 if that’s what x is.

Anyone else thinking swearing at their dm would’ve been a fate worse than death never mind fake shoes.