How do I back down from this?

[CrazyHorse]

DD (14yo) asked for a pair of shoes while out shopping. Rudely, without explaining why she wanted/needed them.

DH told her she was behaving like a spoilt brat and walked out of the shop.

DD asked the shop assistant if she could try them on but they didn't have her size.

I had a chat to DD and told her no way would we be buying her anything if she was being so rude to us. I told her to apologise to DH and she offered a sulky "I'm sorry"

Having had time to consider the shoes, I now think she does actually need them. How do I go about buying them for her without rewarding her rudeness. She tends to be most rude when she's anxious, and she's anxious because she does need theses shoes.

Just say "You need the shoes so we'll get them. You know my policy is to get things on basis of need not want and you need." She didn't get what she wanted by being sulky or using rude words, so no face lost.

As for the 'rudeness'

"Rudely, without explaining why she wanted/needed them. "

So I'm confused (as ever), but here goes...

OP is saying that in order to ask for something, the DD has to give justification (how full a justification?) or she's being "rude". I don't want to have interactions with my children where they have to justify every request. I find that utterly bizarre. If they are polite in tone then I can ask "Why do you need them?" This is not an onerous burden to me.

I'm interpreting literally what OP wrote coz I don't like to pretend I understand all the things OP didn't say. But it sounds like from what OP said, that the dad escalated things (?with his own brusque dismissal?) rather than modelling to her how to engage in adult conversation. It sounds like she only used the F word & went sulky when he didn't give her a chance to explain (by asking her to explain).

I don't understand how the initial conversation panned out. Initially, the OP said that her dd asked for the shoes "rudely", without explaining why they were needed. She then clarifies that her dd was using the f-word, telling her parents to shut up and go away. I don't really get how even the rudest teen manages to get "fuck" and "shut up" and "go away" into a demand for some new shoes. There must have been more to the conversation than the OP has told us, and without knowing exactly what happened, it's hard to comment. That said, the DH's reaction seems petulant and childish, hardly a great role model.

Anyway, the bottom line is that she needs the shoes. If this is the case, you have no choice but to buy them - or at least, but some shoes - so I guess you just have to explain this logic to the dd and emphasise that this doesn't change your expectations about her behaviour.

Why do you think she was feeling anxious about the shoes? It seems an odd thing to be worried about - most teens tend to assume that their parents will provide them with their basic needs. Was she worried about not getting what she needs? Choosing the right ones? Cost? If you can pin down the trigger, this might help you to address the problem.

BTW, I agree that it's helpful to give teens an allowance for their clothes. My dd is 14 and manages all this stuff for herself now, so we don't have arguments of this nature.

Surely you know if your 14 year old needs new shoes or not?

Strategies would be things like - count to 10, take some deep breaths, think 'am I hungry?', 'Can I say this without swearing'

I'd asked DD to slow down, to take a breath, to talk to me without swearing etc. I was told: "No I fucking can't, just shut up and fuck off. You have no idea what my life is like. Mum fucking stop it!"
I was then sternly but quietly telling her to please not swear at me in public.

Any tactics that would actually help her calm down without her telling me to fuck off would be very much appreciated!

Going straight home just seemed to be the best option at that point. This is the second time we've cut short a shopping trip because of this type behaviour.

She also behaved like this once when it was just her and myself in Oxford Street. I read her the riot act, threatened to take her straight back home on the train (we'd only just got there) and she did then behave rationally . She's a typical 14 yo who usually loves shopping but can get overwhelmed.

There's need and there's need.

She won't be barefoot without them, but they would be very socially acceptable.

She won't be barefoot without them, but they would be very socially acceptable.

So they're a want rather than a need?

OH dear, poor you ... and you've about another 3 years of this, by 17 they are nearly out of it, with a few reversions just to remind you of the good old early teens!

We had this but it was with hair! Extreme rudeness and so hairdressing appointment delayed for about 3 or 4 months I recall until self control was maintained for a certain amount of time. It was hell. Similarly I recall earring removal as if behaving like that was not grown up enough to have earrings.

It really wont matter in 3 years' time whether or not you buy the shoes ... but you could have a discussion, if that is poss without her screaming etc, otherwise you might need to text to open it up, discuss with DH first so all on board ... "I want to buy you those shoes but we need to talk about things." This sort of approach worked for me with my volatile DD!

She is very lovely now!

You can't teach her the strategies when she's in a meltdown. Or just once- it takes a long time to learn.

They are the sort of thing she needs to think about when she is calm, in a chat about how she does keep calm and behave when she is anxious - and how she is then more likely to get her shoes!

Oh teens .

Make a bargain with her, she ups her behavior then x days/weeks later she gets the shoes.

Don't just get them now, she will assume acting that way has no consequences.

I don't really get how even the rudest teen manages to get "fuck" and "shut up" and "go away" into a demand for some new shoes.

No neither do I. There is honestly no more to the conversation than her asking if we can go into a shop we were passing, and then asking for the shoes and when I say I'm not sure if we can get them today she went into full on anxiety swearing mode. When she gets like this DH and I are usually so stunned we don't react. This is probably where we're going wrong. The "Do not swear at us!" Doesn't seem very effective.

The rest of the time when she isn't like this she's lovely and reasonable and sweet.

Her basic needs are more than met materially. It's her anxiety needs that are not being met, because I don't know how to do that- how do I calm down someone who's decided their life is going to be awful if they don't have a particular thing NOW. from buying her the shoes there and then (which wasn't possible because they didn't have them in her size) she wouldn't have calmed down. In all honesty I probably would have bought the shoes if they'd had them in her size. I'm not sure, as I was feeling quite overwhelmed and thrown by her outburst, and the shoes are quite expensive.

sorry but I'm with DH on this

If you relented to those outburst you just reinforce the behaviour. Have a strop, get what I want. Teen wins.

Give her an allowance. No extras, she will learn soon enough how to budget.

I think it’s ok to say nothing, turn around and walk away from her.

Let it sit with her for a while.

Talk about it calmly after the event.

They do turn into lovely adults. Mine are 18, 17, 15 and 12. Currently in the thick of it with 15 yo who is generally a lovely person. The older ones are through it and mostly out the other side.

Keep reminding yourself ‘this isn’t personal’.

Remember, you are ALL adjusting to having this new adult around. Give yourselves a break. It’s ok to walk away rather than a row erupting. It doesn’t mean she’s ‘got away with it’ but rather you will deal with it when it’s productive to do so.

OP, you need to talk to her about her outbursts when she is calm and in a good mood. Yes, it might tip her over the edge into a bad mood, but she needs to understand that her behaviour is unacceptable. She won't be able to hear this when she is in meltdown mode, so you need to talk to her about it afterwards.

From what you've said, it seems to me that the shoes are a want rather than a genuine need. On that basis, I would explain to her that, actually, you would have been prepared to buy the shoes for her but you don't feel that you can now because you need her to understand that she cannot speak to you like that and that rudeness will not get her what she wants. I would then find a way of leaving the door open for her if she is able to demonstrate that she is making a significant effort to behave in a more respectful manner - so that can work towards getting what she wants at some point in the near future. For example, you might tell her that you're considering giving her a clothing allowance if she can demonstrate that she is mature enough to have one by behaving like a reasonable human being for the next couple of months! Or something...

Am I missing something? How could you not know as parents that your dd needs shoes or not?

She only needs them if she doesn't actually own a pair!

I wouldn't buy them after all that swearing. But I would tell dd that if she does need shoes or anything she needs to ask nicely or if she struggles verbally to send a text. My ds has anxiety and hates asking for anything. I practically have to over reassure him when I'm asking him if he needs anything I'm offering to pay! But he also knows swearing at me won't be the way to solve the issue.

If she needs the shoes then she can bloody well earn the money to buy them herself! Entitled little madam!!!!

Remind me of the job opportunities available for 14-year-olds again?

I can't believe you even bothered to check they were in her size after being spoken to like that!
Stop being a walkover and rewarding that kind of behaviour.

Anxiety, my arse. It sounds like she has been spoilt and is still stuck in the toddler tantrum stage when she doesn't get what she wants. Your husband had the right idea walking away from it but he needs to reflect on his part in letting her get like this by indulging her in the past.

There was an interesting thread a few days ago where a teacher was commenting on the deterioration of behaviour and attitudes demonstrated by children; children who had probably never been told no and had parents who tolerated behaviour which would make the hair of previous generation of parents stand on end.

It also stands out that she actually sorted herself out on a previous occasion when you were firm and made it clear that you weren't putting up with any shit.

I wouldn't buy her the shoes after the way she'd behaved.. I'd suggest she saves up pocket money, birthday money, money for jobs, whatever, and gets them herself.

I have two teenagers myself and wouldn't accept being spoken to like that.

Her behaviour was extremely rude. Swearing and demanding you buy her shoes? Not good. Not acceptable. Is she spoiled? I don't think you should buy her those shoes at all. It teaches her there are zero consequences for swearing and throwing a tantrum

I'm still not getting "anxiety driven swearing". What do you believe she was anxious about? She asked for shoes and was told not today. That seems more like temper than panic because she'll be bare foot for the forseeable and can't communicate it.

She doesn’t need them. She might want them but that is different. If she needs new shoes, then I would get her new shoes but not the ones she was so rude about.

Anxiety needs?Is that the excuse for being a manipulative horror?
OP your DD has you both where she wants you, she was well aware of what she was doing with what she said to you!
She wants the shoes not needs them.
Under no circumstances would my DD14 get anything if she spoke to me like that.
Why oh why on MN is nobody ever just rude or cheeky? it’s anxiety, behavioural, whip out labels....I’m waiting on that.

Sounds like she's mixing up her emotions. Anger yes. Anxiety....no. Especially as she was fine until she heard the word no.

Honestly OP, you need to set your stall out. Firmly and quietly. You will get X allowance a month to buy any extra clothes, go out etc with. There will be no more money for you. We will buy school shoes, one pair of trainers etc and your basic clothing, you need to budget and buy the rest from now on.

How was Dh to blame. Walking away is a recommended tactic, not one that he should be criticised for.

I don't see how buying them fur her helps in any way, apart from showing that you are prepared to pander to her.

To add I love mummy excuse of she refused to eat so was thirsty and hungry 🤣🤣
Christ on bike, it’s obvious who runs this house 🙄🙄
She sounds like an obnoxious toddler.