Total breakdown of relationship - how can I fix this?

[anorak]

As I'm sure you guessed, useless anorak and her 15 year old daughter again.

My daughter, my beautiful first child, seems to hate myself, dh, dd2 and at times even 4 year old ds. She is manipulative, abusive, foul-mouthed and bullying. I have tried to ignore her behaviour and try to ride the storm but if I do she kind of makes sure she pushes things until I have to do something.

I see a girl who is deeply damaged by some things her father did to her years ago. Things dh and I went to a lot of trouble to ensure could never happen again. I have been there for her throughout trying to help her get over the damage but she says she is fine it is just the rest of us. Her constant refrain is 'I don't f*ing care'.

She has been saying for a long time that she no longer wants to babysit or help around the house for her allowance and recently I complied with her requests for Saturday nights out with her friends. Now she says no more babysitting unless she is paid by the hour. I refused to do this since it disconnects her from being part of the family and she doesn't see the way we do things for one another. So we have decided no more chores or babysitting and no more allowance.

I can do the chores myself and hire a babysitter, but I am so sad that she is totally rejecting us as a family. She is trying to get a job at Sainsbury's and while I know this may be a good thing for her I long for her to do it WITH our support. But she is doing it to gather money to free herself from us.

Last night DD2 caught her stealing money from a purse of mine. When I confronted her she talked to me as if I were an evil sadist to be accusing her. But money was missing so I know she took it. DD2 was called a 'lying fing bh'.

I am at the end of my tether. She is breaking my heart. She is using every chance to hurt me in any way she can and I am not sure how much more I can take. I can't stop crying and feel I am greiving for something I have lost. Even if she ever stops being like this I am reaching the point when I won't be able to forgive.

I have told her I want her either to start treating the rest of us like human beings or move out when she reaches 16. She seems keen for the latter and sounds totally determined to live in squalour and loneliness rather than accept the support and help we long to offer.

I know she is punishing me for what her father did to her but for how much longer? She will kill me before she forgives me.

Oh, and Copper, I am so sorry about your mum. Thank you for being so kind as to post for me under such circumstances.

Hi Anorak - nothing new to add, am a bit in awe of some of the fantastic advice you're getting.

Just to let you know that I hope that everything goes ok for you while your daughter is away this weeeknd, and that you have chance for a bit of a 'breather'

loads of hugs xx

Hi lilibet and thanks. I don't know if she's going anywhere this weekend. It's just a question of wanting to go anytime she feels like it without reference to anyone else in the family. Or necessarily even telling us.

She is sick at the moment. Stress I expect.

bless her, hope she is soon feeling better, my dd does the excluding thing occasionally and to a much lesser degree and I really hate it. I hate feeling cut out of her life - she's my baby! I want to look after her and mother her, adn she knows that ignoring me and the rest of us is a good way to get a reaction.
Things must be really hard for you.

bless her, hope she is soon feeling better, my dd does the excluding thing occasionally and to a much lesser degree and I really hate it. I hate feeling cut out of her life - she's my baby! I want to look after her and mother her, adn she knows that ignoring me and the rest of us is a good way to get a reaction.
Things must be really hard for you.

Anorak darling. I've been so busy I missed this thread. I'll read the whole thing in the morning-but until then just wanted to let you know I'm thinking about you all. I can't imagine how worried and upset you are. It seems like it's never ending doesn't it. If it's any consolation I was a horrid horrid teenager. As you know my mum left when I was 9. Shoplifting,very rarely bothering to go to school-you name it I did it. But look! I came through the other side as I know DD1 will. Unfortunately you've got to live with the fallout of all that anger and hurt. I'm sorry. I haven't read the whole thread and DS's still awake but I'll be back in the morning.{{{{{{{{{{{ Big Hugs}}}}}}}}}}}

Hi spook. Yes I would love to hear what you say since you have met DD and all of us.

If I knew she would come through it okay like you did, I wouldn't have to worry about the freedoms she is determined to have. I wouldn't have to worry about her mental and emotional damage or the dangerous situations she wants to put herself in. But I don't at this stage know (of course). She could end up dead in a ditch or with severe mental illness or any number of things in between. I'm scared for her.

It is beginning to get to me despite my resolve to be calm and ride the storm. I kept waking up last night with this kind of huge empty feeling in my chest and racing heart. Dreaming about stress, not being able to find things and being late. Dreaming about time running out and not being able to do ordinary things. Woke up this morning feeling ghastly to use my grandma's old word.

Many times I woke in the night to hear DD moving about. I think she is still vomiting and I am sure it is stress but she won't let me help her.

OK-read the whole thing. None of it particualrly surprises me though the abusive language and general nastiness directed towards the whole family is way way unacceptable.
What do I do if my 4 year old has a screaming tantrum now? I walk away. Within minutes he's clinging on to my legs apologising. I am not for a second suggesting something so simplistic will work for a 15 year old but I really do think the only was to deal with the screaming and general verbal and/or physical abuse is to ignore it and walk away if possible.
Your daughter DOES love you very much.D'you remember when I gave her those shoes?? She was so embarassed at wearing something so overtly "pretty" and girly but do you know the FIRST VERY FIRST thing she did????? She came down to the kitchen and hung about and eventually said to you "notice anything different" As an outsider this was as plain as day to me. All she wanted was your praise/acknowledgement that she looked gorgeous (and you gave it to her!!) I have to say-she was crying out for it.
Ignore the nastiness,let her go,but PLEASE take the advice on the letters. It's a fantastic idea. You don't have to be gushing or over-emotional. There's plenty of time for that. But little by little you will chip away at that tough girl exterior. She needs love but she also needs tough love.
That has just poured onto the page and I have said nothing that other wise MNers have not already said. But you must carry on living your life with your gorgeous DH and DD2 and DS. She doesn't want to be alone and she certainly doesn't want to leave home at 16. I can almost guarantee that.

Thank you spook. What you say means a lot because you know how my children love you. I wish I could see you soon! You said you couldn't make it to ds's birthday, didn't you? The children are forever asking when spook is coming back.

Honey-can't make it as my own little pumpkin is 5 on Wednesday and it's his party that weekend. But I will come down soon I promise. How's this for an idea. Why don't you and DD1 come up here for a weekend. Just the 2 of you. I would LOVE to see K & P but I think this is a TOP idea. She would come I'm sure. We could go for walks on the beach,you could talk-I could try and talk to her...PLEASE think about it!!!

Wow spook. I'd love to! I'll ask her when she wakes up (she's still sick, I heard her up in the night a few times.) God knows when we will fit it in, weekends are really busy at the moment but I hope we can cos it would be such a great opportunity - not only to see you but also to be trapped in a car or train with dd for hours on end if you see what I mean.

Thank you, thank you. xxx I'm emailing you now about a separate matter.

anorak, been thnking about this and I haven't read the whole thread, so probably repeating what others have already said. I don't think she hates you and the family...I think she hates herself and because she hates herself she tries to justify that feeling by trying to make you hate her IYSWIM....its a kind of self-fulfilling prophersy I'm a crp person, I'm crp to you, You think I'm crp, see I'm a crp person....
I don't think I felt as bad as your dd obviously does but I distinctly remember coming home every night for about a term and starting a row with my mum (and I mean EVERY night....)
You sound like a wonderful mother and I think you just have to keep on being there...
I also think spook may be right about the ignoring. As I said I lived in a house with a teenager who was vile, so I simply ignored her and it worked to some extent...

I am sure you are right blackduck. The problem is not in realising that she feels that way, but in knowing what is the best thing to do about it (from the things she will allow me to do, that is). I am sure that ignoring is the best at this stage, while letting her know that I am still here for her.

Anorak, I have only just read this thread - and I don't know what to say but I couldn't read and not post. You are such a lovely person, you are one of the kindest and wisest people on MN. I am so sorry that you and your family are going through this (and I include your dd in that - poor child, she is so unhappy, isn't she?)

I really don't know that there is anything else you can do - it sounds like you are doing it already. Like others have said, I think it's a case of waiting it out. Even though it may feel like nothing you say or do makes a difference, somewhere, deep down, it is getting through to your dd - I really believe that. She can't respond to you now, but she knows you love her, and - given time and more maturity - I hope she will come back to you.

I wish I had a magic wand to make it all better - it's awful to hear you so sad and at the end of your tether. I think you just have to keep being there for her - no matter how hard she is pushing you away. She is your dd, she has a lot of you in her, so somewhere in there is a good, kind person hiding away and frightened to come out.

Don't know if any of that helps at all - but I am thinking of you (((HUGS)))

Hi this is sarah A.K.A. DD1 (well my life story is published to the world, you can hardly expect me not to have a look). Just wanted to say a few things:

1. I can cope without my allowance, my job at the pub pays well considering I am 15 and it is a pub...
2. The teachers at my school are... how can i put this... stuck up... don't know anything about me... disinterested... etc etc.
3. I don't put myself in the dangerous situations you might think. In London i go to friends' houses; not the streets.
4. Letters... ridiculous! Almost as silly as my English teacher making me write a formal letter to my stepdad.
5. I didn't steal money (I'm not going into details as you probably don't believe me anyway, just that I am above stealing £4. I will get about £30 for a days work tomorrow so stealing £4 hardly seems worthwhile right?) so it certainly will not "escalate into shoplifting and petty theft outside the home".
6. My father is out of my life now!! I hardly ever think about him. Sure he did some damage but he's gone now.
7. I really, really HATE therapy. These people who think they can know all about me and cure all my problems in just a few sessions with their magic... no it's not for me.
8. I think that is very sweet Spook and thanks, but i don't think it's a good idea, sorry.
9. None of you know me which is shown in suggestions such as drugs being behind this so please stop assuming the worst of me. Please.

I could go on but I'll let you get on discussing me now lol enjoy.

You write very well, Sarah - you sound very mature - could you possibly extend that maturity a bit, into your dealings with the rest of your family?

Sarah, if you have read this thread, you will have seen how much your mother loves you and is worrying about you. None of us here are trying to put you down or are laughing at you. I think you will find that most of us have said that you seem to be having a very hard time but, as you said, we do not know you so it is very difficult to see how we can help. All we are trying to do is support your mother, but really the only one that can really help is you. Please can you find it in yourself to just talk to her - tell her how you are feeling? Please, please do not think that I am being condescending, or looking down on you in any way. I am not, but it so frustrating when two people seem so unhappy, and being unable to see a way of helping.

What is it you want me to do with that maturity JanH? And Muminamillion I have talked and talked and talked with her, nothing ever changes, until now. I don't see much we can argue about now and it's all been a lot more peaceful since the last arguement. TBH I can't see what the big deal is at the moment and what's upset my mom so much more in comparison to other arguements which I found a lot more distressing. I'm going out now. Mum will be on tomorrow morning if not tonight when she gets home.

Thanks for answering Sarah. I really do hope you can find a way to bridge this gap. You both need each other, and I know you care about your mum, otherwise you would not have been affected by reading this thread, and would not have taken the time to post. Perhaps you both just need a little cooling off time - it's easy to get into a habit of arguing (I have 4 dd's and I was one!!! so I know).

Just remember that whatever may have been said in the heat of the moment before, your mum really does love you, and just wants you to be happy.

Hope you have a nice evening tonight, and weekend. And thanks again for posting back.

Hi, Sarah. I just meant that life at your house would be so much nicer for everybody, including you, if you were all reasonably pleasant and polite to each other. We all snap and snipe sometimes, me included, but it doesn't have to be like that all the time.

Sarah - I'm sorry - it was me that said 'escalating into shoplifting and petty theft outside the home'- it wasn't a judgement on you it was a mum's worry about how her own son would cope with a complete lack of money.

Your mum is just worried about you too, she wants you to stay safe. Take care.

HI anorak , ive only just realised this is your thread. I dotn have much intelligant advice only having a 1 yr old. Ive only been able to read your post. You have been wonderful and open and caring with me , so with your tenacity and love , she will realise that and come back to you. having been a teenager once I can give you this.I was a very nasty, rude, screamy, shouty teenager, mainly frustartion with low self esteem from years of bullying and being pushed form school to school becaue of it.i was revolting to my sisters and also refused to help with the youngest , NO WAY was I gonna baby sit. My mum gave up on me a few times and let me just go and get it all out of my system.But boy did I !!!I took things very very far for many years. I eventually came round as she just kept on pushing me through and supporting me , even though sometimes I didnt deserve it. I can only imagine what my mum went thorugh and now reading your posts I can see!! But if it wasnt for her constant caring and not turning away from me and chucking me out(which I think she wanted to do many times), then I dont think I would have come back so to speak and woken up from my angry place. She knows you care and love her very much , she just needs to vent as you do too.

Anorak - Saza......not sure how either of you will be feling about this, this morning. Hope you are both OK and can see the positive side of things.

Saza, you're probably feeling pretty miffed about your relationship being discussed like this, maybe I would be to, no scratch that, I defo would be. Your mum didn't do it to hurt you, just to try to get her head around things and to try to get some support.

Anorak - thinking of you.