DS14 punched gentle DH in chest/face multiple times. Now vanished.

[WaffleWiffle]

DS14 was being horrible to DS10 at xbox swap over time (ie DS10's turn came to an end and it was DS14's turn. This was 1pm today). DS14 was rude, taunting and generally horrible to his brother, in a way DS10 would not do if reversed.

DH went to talk to DS14 as this was happening. DS14 continued to be horrible. DH told DS14 to go to his room to calm down (Xbox is not in bedroom but is in family area upstairs), reflect and apologise before he could go on Xbox. They were standing outside of his bedroom but DS14 refused point-blank to go in.

Stand off continued. DS14's phone taken from him. Stand off continued along the lines of:

"You have lost 1h of xbox time, if you don't go in your room before I count to 5 you will lose 1h of phone time in addition.
(After count to 5)
You have lost 1h of phone & xbox, it becomes 2h if you don't go in your room before 5

Etc etc

Stand off continued and was getting nowhere so it reached the point where it was obvious this tactic was not working.

I want to add at this point that DH is the most non-confrontational person ever and is never, ever aggressive. He was calm and low-voiced throughout. But DS14 was becoming increasingly aggressive and 'squaring up' to get past DH and not go in his room. It became important to de-escalate quickly because DS14 was getting scary.

DH tried to march DS14 into his room by holding his two wrists and walking towards bedroom with him. This evidently was the wrong thing to do and we can reflect on this another day. But the result was DS pulling his arms away and throwing punches at DH.

Raining punches at DH's chest, this was the point I became involved (I was in the shower throughout all previous, could hear but knew DH is a capable parent. From this point onwards I am wrapped in a towel with wet hair...). I hear the cuffuffle and as I come out of the bathroom I see DS14 throw 2 punches at DH's face while DH tries and fails to get hold of DS's arms/hands to stop the attack.

Now in DS's room. DH holds DSs chest against the wall, which allows me to get hold of both of DSs wrists. We are trying to stop his violence and help him calm down. We are trying our best in a situation we've never known before. As you can imagine, this is a really, really stressful and dreadful situation to find ourselves in. DH and I wait maybe 90 seconds holding DS as he is throthing (literally) at the mouth to, well I don't know, attack us?

I continue to hold DSs wrists and tell DH to leave room. Then I swiftly follow, close door and tell DS he needs to CALM DOWN. DS punches (and damages) door and breaks his alarm clock (I don't know how, I was holding door closed).

DH, having caught his breath and had a few mins to check our other children are OK and not scared, is now furious. In explaining to me what happened he raises his voice for the first time (something DH very, rarely does - he's a quiet discussion kind of guy). This passes a strong message to DS, who knows how rarely DH loses his rag. DH spelled it out to me what DS had done (he physically punched me about 20 times! How I didn't retaliate , i don't know- he was battering me!) and that, a long with DHs tone of voice very quickly quietened DS behind his closed door.

I sent DH downstairs and out the way. DS silent. I opened door (mistake - I should have left him longer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing). DS is like a bull facing down a mattadore. In a very angry voice he says he want to get out.

I think he means of his room. I say no, must stay in room to calm down. He squares up to me, I think he's going to hit me . He says her not staying in here, her going and DH calls from downstairs that leaving the house might be a good idea. I agree since he's trashed his room and seems still very angry.

DS14 leaves the house. This is around 1.30-1 40pm today. DH throws his trainers out of the door as he leaves, because he's barefoot.

So that's where we are. DS has not come home. We've phoned our local family members in case he turns up at theirs and his best mates parents. He has no phone or money. Dinner is always 5.30pm

I'm starting to worry. How long should I leave him to brood before I go look for him?

Should I be out there now? Am I a bad parent for not? I feel ok to wait until usual dinner time (5.30) because that's his normal time to be in when he's out with friends. But don't know how long after that to wait? His night time curfue is 9-9.30pm in school hols, depending where he is. Should I wait until then?

I'm soooooo cross with him. Like big, big style angry for his behaviour to his Dad. But of course I'm also worried for his safety given I don't know where he is. I don't want my worry to lessen his consequences for physically assaulting another. But the worry is overtaking now. What if he's so sorrowful that he has... oh god. What if he's hurt?

What should I do???????

I think reporting him to the police for assault is Not going to give any happy solutions.

Clearly the boy was out of line, but honestly I see kids reacting badly so often when parents try to control them. The idea that he would have to go into his room, by force if necessary, seems random?

Yes, he behaved badly, but I find with teens that you get much further if you talk about things when everyone is calm. So tell them their behaviour is not ok and have a proper chat about how he behaves to his brother and dad, and how squaring up to someone in the outside world would be reciprocated.... Also ask why he was acting like that, what is up, where dies the anger come from?

The teens I know who act like this all have parents who want to “control” their kids (with sanctions, or physical actions) rather than helping them make their own good decisions. Iykwim

@WaffleWiffle, if your DH is unused to ‘threatening behaviour and violence’ then I. Sure he also has learnt that in that case, you just walked away.

What wouod he do face with another man half his size who gets aggressive? Do you really think he would grab him? I doubt it.

So no I don’t believe he was so threatened and frightened by his own ds.
But rather quite baffled and annoyed that his ds didn’t step down and resorted for force instead. Neither him nor you could cope with not having the last word in this incident.
Saying that he felt threatened is a way to excuse his own behaviour, becoming physical, when he knows fully well he should never have done so. And nor should you btw. But I’m pretty sure you know that already.

No more than smacking a toddler or a child is acceptable. Or grabbing another adult (you just let them go)

Glad he's ok OP. It must have been very scary not knowing where he was.

I think you have had a bit of a hard time here. Teenagers do not come with an instruction book. It's much, much harder than the baby years. Sleepless nights are nothing in comparison to hormonal teenagers.

I am talking to you from the green zone, why are you shouting at me from the red zone

To be honest I think something like that would cause me to rage too!

OP what a dreadfully upsetting incident for all of you. Call the police, get him home safe .

Hope he turns up soon OP. Not sure why the smug brigade are out. There's no rule book for this kind of outburst especially when there's no history and it's escalated out of the blue. Even if there was a pattern it doesn't mean everyone is equipped to deal with such a violent outburst. Incredulous at the posts claiming you were helicoptering by intervening when the 14 year old was being nasty to the 10 year old. No you don't leave them to it because That would be shitty parenting.

I have older boys and they've never been persistently nasty to each other or been violent to anyone, (bickered and then gone to their own rooms if they occasionally fell out).
If they had we would certainly have intervened. Certainly did not tolerate unkind behaviour in any form and would have been equally at a loss as to what to do in your situation.

I expect he is ok but feeling quite ashamed and struggling to return expecting to be in serious trouble and clueless as to how to put it right.

When he does return Xbox is not an option for him. Hopefully you will get to the bottom of his attitude to his brother and subsequent outburst. Parenting is really hard.

Oops sorry missed your update. Good news.

1. Ds will have felt justified. He was trying to get his rightful turn and DS2 was in the wrong not coming off. Yes DS will have handled this badly, in the way he tried to handle DS2 - but what about DS2? Did he sweetly carry on playing past his turn swap time? To de-escalate DH should have made a play of being even handed here: ds1 you stop telling, DS2 you have 1 minute to get off, I am not surprised that DS1 is getting frustrated.

Never fail to acknowledge righteous anger in a teen, even if they are expressing it wrong.

1. You will never de-escalate with a teen by confronting them and laying down the law. I suggest you buy and read 2 books: "How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk", and " get out of my life, but first take me and Alex into town".

1. I wonder if DS1's huge reaction is that the handling of this situation has triggered some idea that DS2 is allowed to get away with stuff/ favoured. You may feel this is objectively not the case; that is irrelevant if DS1 believes it. Situations that "confirm" this will trigger huge reactions.

Dh did not handle this well, apart from not fighting back. He in no way de-escalated. He would have been better telling DS1 to make himself scarce for 5 mins so he (dh) can handle getting DS2 off Xbox, and in return for backing down and sensibly starting a little late, he will ensure he gets an extra 15 mins at the end of his turn, or something similar.

I bet DS1 had arranged to meet his friends online at an allowed time and DS2 was preventing that from happening.

Ok OP. Glad he’s safe.

What I would do now is sit down with DH and make sure you are both on the same page- recognising where you two went wrong and what should happen in future. DE-escalate needs to be your new mantra. Calm, least said is truly the best policy. No matter how angry you are.

As for when DS is home. Don’t start anything immediately. Ask him if he is OK. Not because you think something happened while he was out but because he’s probably still a bit shell shocked about what happened. Hug him and tell him to go and get some sleep and you’ll talk about things tomorrow.

When you talk to him you acknowledge that what happened was horrific for everyone involved and none of you wish to ever repeat it again. Apologise for your parts in it and give him opportunity to apologise for his behaviour. (He May not do that instantly- don’t force it- it’s bravado- tell him that’s fine- he can apologise when he’s ready) tell him that the consequences for his violence and behaviour is X (removal of Xbox for set period? returned dependant on behaviour during that time) and then you discuss what behaviour should happen when he is irritated/upset/angry. What would you like him to do? Walk away and take time to calm down? Come and find you to talk to you? Take a walk outside? Go and see a friend? Also explain that you know he needed to leave the house to calm down/ get away from the situation and that that’s ok but that it’s not okay not to tell anyone where he is. Make that a rule- he can leave if he’s wound up but he must tell either you/DH/sister where he is going.

Smilebehappy, i am that poster, and I am surprised at your aggressive tone.

I don’t think gaming is an excuse for bad behaviour, i was just explaining how modern gaming works as I find some RL parents don’t know and it helps to understand the teens’ frustrations (without justifying anything)

It is also not an excuse for assault obviously

Why are you calling my kids little shits and why do you assume they will assault people?

Maybe examine your own aggressive attitude before lashing out?

@WaffleWiffle, you do realise that
wanted to come home and was nervous to face the music with his Dad
Basically means he is frightened to come back home?

Oh come on. A teenager can be nervous about facing the consequences of his actions with his parents and not be scared of his parents as you are implying.

I am honestly incredulous too at some of the responses here and it does explain a lot about the entitlement levels we are seeing in society generally right now. Taking him by the wrists was not great, but "squaring up" is very physically aggressive, and nothing - absolutely nothing - justifies punching your dad multiple times. 14 year old boys can also be very big and powerful (often more so than older men). I've got some very loving parents but if I'd started beating either of them up at that age I'd expect there to have been serious consequences. And this is apparently ok because his behaviour around gaming is totally justifiable?

I'm also a secondary teacher, so used to the signs - you think that restraining a 14 year old like this is a good strategy? And now you are thinking you'll call the police?

I'm thinking that a lot of schools offer courses on parenting teens, or you can get referred through CAMHS. I doubt this is a one off, and you need to find a way to cope that doesn't result in your son running off much further than his mates house for tea.

Some people's responses on here are quite frankly crazy.

You did the right thing by explaining the consequences and putting him in his room. If he was already angry, keeping him in the same space as his little brother wouldn't have been good. If it was uncharacteristic, there was no way of saying how far it would go.

As a teacher, I'm sure you know all about physical interventions so no, it wasn't out of line with that type of behaviour.

He wasn't scared to come home, he was probably ashamed of his behaviour. Following an incident like you've described, young people go through what is called a 'post incident depression'. He's gonna be feeling like an idiot.

I really hope you get to the bottom of it. I'm sure, as a professional, you already know but please keep an eye on his social media activity. Xx

The x-box would be gone in our house. Forever. It might mean a group punishment but that's the way it works here. I'd bet any money that you will find that you like your kids far more if you get rid of it.

Chickney chick you was trying to use the online gaming argument to justify his behaviours , I dread to think how your kids behave if you think this is ok

I absolutely wouldn't go the police.
You just need to talk as a family.

He punched his own father multiple times, let that sink in
but dont upset him for God sake eh

I honestly cant believe the people on this thread blaming the parents for this. this is why we have a society of little shits. Yes to this, and as to the poster who is stating that the pausing of an online game is a valid reason for an explosive reaction, ridiculous!

@HeyNotInMyName are we reading the same thread here?

Honestly what would you have done in that situation? The OP and her DH obviously know that touching DS was a no-no but DS lost any moral high ground when he started raining punches on his father.

Fuck me, anyone who thinks that can be explained away needs their head testing.

Reflections and lessons to learn for all - sure. But DH and OP did pretty bloody well in a highly combustible situation.

My parents both non violent not shouty people but and we grew up in a very happy home
Christ I can only imagine punching my dad 20 times.i cant even begin to think of the consequences it just wouldn't happen then you have people on here asking the OP to evaluate her parenting. no OP dont your lad is the issue not you

yes, he would have felt like a prisoner being manhandled.
best of luck in moving forward, i am sure you can put it behind you and learn from it

DS14 was being horrible to DS10 at xbox swap over time (ie DS10's turn came to an end and it was DS14's turn. This was 1pm today). DS14 was rude, taunting and generally horrible to his brother, in a way DS10 would not do if reversed.

The younger child wasn't, as I understand it, doing anything wrong. The older one was being rude & taunting his younger sibling because he could, presumably because he is bigger and stronger so feels powerful.

14yo is being verbally horrible to 10yo. Adult intervenes to tell 14yo old not to do so, and gives reasonable consequences. 14yo refuses to accept consequences and turns violent.

If that situation was in a school, not a home, what would posters be saying? If a year 10 boy was taunting a year 7, and a teacher got battered for intervening and giving consequences, would they be saying it was the teacher's fault? It doesn't matter that it's his dad instead, it's not ok to respond to being held by the wrists by raining punches.

Glad he’s embarrassed.

When he gets back, tell him you’re going to sleep on it and let him know in the morning the consequences for this.

Especially if you are slightly anxious about him, do NOT apologise about holding his wrists while he pummelled your husband. Take a cool and measured approach in the morning. And him not being allowed on that X box for a while should be the absolute minimum. It’s good he’s worried about how his very soft dad might respond - he should be. If he had treated another dad like that he could be sitting in a hospital right now. There are a lot of adults who would respond aggressively to being punched 20+ times by a tall athletic sporty adolescent. Plus he squared up to you? No, I would withdraw soft chats and kindness and reflecting on how the parents handled it for the moment. It will make him feel less safe if you don’t think you handled it well and share your weakness with him. Save that for another day once he’s back in his box.

Just imagine the scenario
Said 14 year old comes home , let's all hug him and tell him it's ok that he beat his father, what lessin does that teach? What will he learn ? Will he do this with a future partner and think it's ok?
Obviously you cant all dwell on this for the rest of your lives and need to move forward but I'f this was my family he would be grounded for two weeks , no xbox , phones and made to apologise

YourOpinion at a mainstream school that would be a permanent exclusion.

And a teacher could well move a child by his wrists if he was being punched like that.

I would suggest this book www.amazon.co.uk/Get-Out-Life-bestselling-teenagers/dp/1781253315/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&tag=mumsnetforu03-21&qid&sr and being kind to yourself.

We all have times when parenting teens that we aren't proud of and sometimes in the heat of the moment we do things we haven't thought through properly but it's a new experience for both teen and parents.