DS14 punched gentle DH in chest/face multiple times. Now vanished.

[WaffleWiffle]

DS14 was being horrible to DS10 at xbox swap over time (ie DS10's turn came to an end and it was DS14's turn. This was 1pm today). DS14 was rude, taunting and generally horrible to his brother, in a way DS10 would not do if reversed.

DH went to talk to DS14 as this was happening. DS14 continued to be horrible. DH told DS14 to go to his room to calm down (Xbox is not in bedroom but is in family area upstairs), reflect and apologise before he could go on Xbox. They were standing outside of his bedroom but DS14 refused point-blank to go in.

Stand off continued. DS14's phone taken from him. Stand off continued along the lines of:

"You have lost 1h of xbox time, if you don't go in your room before I count to 5 you will lose 1h of phone time in addition.
(After count to 5)
You have lost 1h of phone & xbox, it becomes 2h if you don't go in your room before 5

Etc etc

Stand off continued and was getting nowhere so it reached the point where it was obvious this tactic was not working.

I want to add at this point that DH is the most non-confrontational person ever and is never, ever aggressive. He was calm and low-voiced throughout. But DS14 was becoming increasingly aggressive and 'squaring up' to get past DH and not go in his room. It became important to de-escalate quickly because DS14 was getting scary.

DH tried to march DS14 into his room by holding his two wrists and walking towards bedroom with him. This evidently was the wrong thing to do and we can reflect on this another day. But the result was DS pulling his arms away and throwing punches at DH.

Raining punches at DH's chest, this was the point I became involved (I was in the shower throughout all previous, could hear but knew DH is a capable parent. From this point onwards I am wrapped in a towel with wet hair...). I hear the cuffuffle and as I come out of the bathroom I see DS14 throw 2 punches at DH's face while DH tries and fails to get hold of DS's arms/hands to stop the attack.

Now in DS's room. DH holds DSs chest against the wall, which allows me to get hold of both of DSs wrists. We are trying to stop his violence and help him calm down. We are trying our best in a situation we've never known before. As you can imagine, this is a really, really stressful and dreadful situation to find ourselves in. DH and I wait maybe 90 seconds holding DS as he is throthing (literally) at the mouth to, well I don't know, attack us?

I continue to hold DSs wrists and tell DH to leave room. Then I swiftly follow, close door and tell DS he needs to CALM DOWN. DS punches (and damages) door and breaks his alarm clock (I don't know how, I was holding door closed).

DH, having caught his breath and had a few mins to check our other children are OK and not scared, is now furious. In explaining to me what happened he raises his voice for the first time (something DH very, rarely does - he's a quiet discussion kind of guy). This passes a strong message to DS, who knows how rarely DH loses his rag. DH spelled it out to me what DS had done (he physically punched me about 20 times! How I didn't retaliate , i don't know- he was battering me!) and that, a long with DHs tone of voice very quickly quietened DS behind his closed door.

I sent DH downstairs and out the way. DS silent. I opened door (mistake - I should have left him longer. Hindsight is a wonderful thing). DS is like a bull facing down a mattadore. In a very angry voice he says he want to get out.

I think he means of his room. I say no, must stay in room to calm down. He squares up to me, I think he's going to hit me . He says her not staying in here, her going and DH calls from downstairs that leaving the house might be a good idea. I agree since he's trashed his room and seems still very angry.

DS14 leaves the house. This is around 1.30-1 40pm today. DH throws his trainers out of the door as he leaves, because he's barefoot.

So that's where we are. DS has not come home. We've phoned our local family members in case he turns up at theirs and his best mates parents. He has no phone or money. Dinner is always 5.30pm

I'm starting to worry. How long should I leave him to brood before I go look for him?

Should I be out there now? Am I a bad parent for not? I feel ok to wait until usual dinner time (5.30) because that's his normal time to be in when he's out with friends. But don't know how long after that to wait? His night time curfue is 9-9.30pm in school hols, depending where he is. Should I wait until then?

I'm soooooo cross with him. Like big, big style angry for his behaviour to his Dad. But of course I'm also worried for his safety given I don't know where he is. I don't want my worry to lessen his consequences for physically assaulting another. But the worry is overtaking now. What if he's so sorrowful that he has... oh god. What if he's hurt?

What should I do???????

FWIW I think calling the police here would be a mistake. It removes all your parental authority very early on in the teenage parenting game. It tells him that you can’t manage him so you’ll call the police (who really won’t punish him in this instance- they won’t and he’ll end up laughing at you)

Abstractedobstructed

but you are still ignoring that he was "taunting" and being "generally horrible" (OP's words) to his brother which is (apparently) what he was being spoken to about and even then he continued.

Trying to drag a child by their wrists into another room is assault. Of course your child shouldn't have hit his father, but your husband shouldn't have lost his temper and grabbed his wrists to put him into another room, get him off me was his response. I wouldnt do that to my toddler, never mind a teenager. Poor lad. My dad did this to me, I was frightened, never forgot it. Its not ok. If he'd done that to his wife everyone would be saying its assault. Its not ok just because he's a child, strong young man or not. DH had a choice. He chose to assault his son to force him to move.

I'm honestly not sure if half the pp here read the OP fully.

Yes the way it was handled was bad but the older child was verbally abusing a younger sibling and was told off for doing so (not because he was gaming or that it was his turn, it was switch over time but I'd assume from the OP that this was slightly before/during switch over) at which point the parent intervened with a punishment. Older child didn't like punishment, squared up and then rained punches on his father, at which point he was restrained and when left alone damaged his door, alarm clock and other things, before leaving the house with no indication of where he was going.

Yes the father shouldn't have tried to march him to his room, but other than that, this is all on the child. He made some terrible hormone and anger fueled decisions and should face the consequences of that.

Hope it goes ok when he comes home

Boneyback
No, I wasn't ignoring that. I was inferring (as I said, perhaps wrongly) that the reason older son was being nasty was because younger son was slow in coming off the computer.

I have teenaged sons and that is the usual reason why they get aerated.

I already said, obviously if younger son wasn't eating into older son's turn, then I have misjudged the whole circumstances (but the dh still handled this inappropriately).

Abstractedobstructed

but the dh still handled this inappropriately

This we can agree on.

But it needs three things to go forward.
The older child should stop being nasty to the younger child
The older child needs to stop resorting to violence
and
The parents need to find a way forward that doesn't escalate thi situation (or others).

I am talking to you from the green zone, why are you shouting at me from the red zone ?

That would really antagonise me. I think you just need to have a good old fashioned row and let him get it out his system. People can be cross, they can lose their temper, and you can move on from it. I know it’s not the MN way but it works for us

I'm honestly not sure if half the pp here read the OP fully

Actually @barrythekestrel I don’t think you’ve read the OP fully. She says her dh physically restrained the ds before the ds punched him. The punches were a result of being physically restrained.

The mistake was in escalating the punishment when he was already in a temper. He was never going to back down. Better to walk off and then decide the punishment in the calm if necessary.

My 14 year old is as tall as his dad, and very fit he could put his dad on his arse and really hurt me. So I get being scared of your child when are displaying threatening behaviour which is out of character. I refuse to engage with ds when he gets irate. In your situation I would have walked away but held the line on no Xbox until he calmed down and apologised to his brother. But no interaction. He needs to know you never lay hands on another person, his dad was wrong to do it and he was wrong to react. But he also doesn't get to abuse his little brother without consequence

It’s just hard to be treated like a piece of shit and to walk off calmly. I get that.

Parenting teens is so hard you do your best that's all you can do. Xx

How did your dd phone him, if he didn't have the phone?

Unfortunately he'll quickly work out there's little you can do to punish him really. Your son is still 'a child' so he can hit you, your DH or his brother and there's little you can do about it. You can't physically stop him or you could be assaulting him and he can simply ignore any other punishment.

I wondered that Madambee.

I hope he's home now op. Definitely tell him there will be consequences but they will be decided tomorrow. Loss of any Xbox time should go without saying.

I would then ask him to go to his room, if he doesn't he doesn't, but I would not engage with him again tonight.

Let him stew for a while.

• e music with his Dad Basically means he is frightened to come back home?

What are you going to do about it? And when are you going to take some responsibility in what has happened rather than simply ‘being angry at him’?
If he comes back and you start by having a go and punishing him, wo even talking to him (not talking NOT laying the guilt all over him about how upset this behaviour made you etc....), what do you think is going to happen*

Seriously? I hope he is scared to come home! He should be ashamed. Some of these comments on here are shocking.
There is no excuse for what he has done.
Of course they could be threatened by a 14 year old

My concern is that the Dad is still 'so angry'.

Your husband forcefully dragged your son to his bedroom and then got surprised when he lashed out?

It’s hard OP dealing with a teen. Unless you want your DH investigated by the police, I don’t see how you can report the matter. Grabbing wrists is assault so he was the first to strike and therefore more likely to be charged. I know you say you will deal with that’s later but I think you should take all factors into consideration when dealing with your anger with your DS. It’s not fair to remove it from the equation. Everyone could learn from this including you, when you pinned him against the wall. I’m not suggesting your son is without fault

Your husband should be ashamed of himself.

Can you answer the phone question OP? You said he left without it but that your DD rang him?

Is there part of the story missing?

Why was the 14 year old being horrible to his younger brother in the first place? Was it past the swap time and the younger brother didn’t hand the controller over?

You will never de-escalate with a teen by confronting them and laying down the law. I suggest you buy and read 2 books: "How to talk so kids will listen, and listen so kids will talk", and " get out of my life, but first take me and Alex into town".

I agree with this advice. De-escalation with teens, unless they are being unsafe often means just walking away until everyone is calmer.

Everyone gets it wrong though at times. Your dh wasn't expecting the reaction he got and was probably angry which stopped him being able to see outside the situation.

I am not a big believer in punishments for teens (although I know most people do) in that I think they can be counter productive. I think half the shit that goes on with teens is their desire to be in control which cannot be fulfilled. After what happened, I would not be thinking in terms of consequences or punishment or anything like that but first have a serious conversation where you ask him what he was thinking/feeling and discuss it together. Then you can decide what to do. The more important thing right now is to talk to him. His older sister is probably going to be helpful too. My own dad said to us when we were entering the teen years "you're going to think I am trying to ruin your life and I may even feel the same about you and my life but try to remember through the next few years just how much we love each other even when things get fraught". I said the same to my 3.

And I presume it was the aftermath of the situation which made you say you thought of calling the police and not any rational response. If you call the police the first time you have a confrontation like that with an otherwise normally behaved teen you will have betrayed him utterly and indicated in neon mile-high letters that you are incapable of parenting him. don't do that.

I'm glad you know where he is. I think you should be spending this time talking to DH about how you both react when DS comes back. Your DS behaved appallingly but your DH escalated it from the beginning. You're not parenting a child anymore. You're parenting a teen. You need to work not only on de-escalation but on adjusting to the fact he isn't a child. That doesn't mean 'panicking' about how strong he is and how gentle your DH is It means accepting that manhandling isn't a solution. fwiw your DH's actions aren't the actions of a man afraid of violence or a man who de-escalates and stays calm. Is your DH his father?

Calm and rational conversation needed after that.

He's behaved appallingly.

Dad added fuel to the fire, but probably out of shock at his sons behaviour, which seems to have been out of the norm.

You need a meeting with him (somewhere neutral ideally?) and to set out that behaviour like he just displayed is not acceptable. Of he has anger issues then he needs to get some therapy, but bullying younger brother and being violent will not help his cause.

Remove privileges, to be earned back as he shows himself to be capable of adult behaviour, he gets his adult privileges. Behave like a brat, get nothing.

If necessary, you get rid of the console permanently.

Kids don't need one. In fact, they may even be better off without them.