Ds 17, shocking as results, is adhd a possibility or am I being ridiculous? (Probably long)

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Ds is funny kind caring (mostly) can have a quick temper, had anxiety when he was younger but seems to have grown out of it. He is a gamer, no social life other than online maybe a party once or twice a year but otherwise nothing. Has a group of nice enough mates (male and female) at school but no one he seems particularly close to. Has held down a part time job with no real problems although a few comments about him not going the extra mile.

Teachers have always said the same - he's academically very bright but lazy, a typical boy, only does the bare minimum. Gcse grades were ok bit disappointing but nothing drastic. At the last parents evening teachers were worried for his a levels, said he needed to be doing lots more than he was, he says yeah he knows etc nothing changes. We try everything we can to get him to revise and he says it's all under control, exams, he says have gone well. We are cautious but hopeful.

D in epq (predicted b/c) d - computing pred c, e in physics pred c, u in maths pred c. Total disaster - he wants to go to uni to do computer science (gaming) but won't get into anywhere decent without an a level maths. He says he will retake whole year as really wants to go to uni - we say ok but things will have to change etc he says fine.

We are on holiday we have been doing a padi scuba diving course both dd and dh have commented on his lack of concentration and attention. I idly googled add and adhd and it's all there, forgetfulness, lack of organisation, lack of focus, anxiety, quick temper. This is already too long so am I just looking for excuses for him, is it worth getting checked out? Is it too late now anyway if he were to have it or similar? I feel like I'm a terrible person as I might've missed something big, dh says he's a lazy git who doesn't have trouble concentrating on his phone or computer games? Where would I start even?

Is the school the same one he did GCSEs at? Do they feel he has issues or just needs to work more? Does he do lots of work at home (4-5 hours per week per subject is what we suggest).
It’s not too late to get a diagnosis, but frankly it won’t change his A Level results at this point (our SENCO who is fab always gently tells parents that diagnosis at this point are good for the future but the immediate impact will be low).
Hand on heart it sounds like he hasn’t stepped up to A Level yet.

I guess it's possible however I'm very wary of the labelling that we are doing now there seems to be an epidemic of parents wanting a reason for their child being lazy, spoiled bad tempered whatever the issue is it's easier to say they have xyz rather than tackle the issue.

I'm not saying it is the case for you I have never met you or your son so couldn't even guess but I would think about what your husband says and if you truly believe that adhd is a possibility.

A friend of mine believes her daughter has pathological demand disorder however all professionals involved have basically said she's spoiled and knows tantrums get her way. For my friend her daughter having a condition is easier than admitting she's a spoiled brat and out of control.

*disclaimer I do think that there are health related reasons in many children and adults I'm absolutely not saying anyone is lying or making anything up.

Could be high functioning ASD but, tbh speaking as an a level teacher of long standing and a mum to teenage boy (with high functioning ASD), he's probably just not worked hard enough. I'd have thought his teachers would have mentioned it if they thought he had a condition. If you were to go for a diagnosis and get it you could get him some extra time in the exam but that would be about it. Depending where you live you'd struggle to get one in time anyway. You may well find these poor results will be just the kick up the bum he needs and he'll sort himself out. He wouldn't be the first, or the last. We see it all the time. No amount of warnings and nagging make a difference.

Several Specific Learning Difficulties can present with those traits. Would agree a meeting with senco may be in order, if only to rule these out.

I'd have thought his teachers would have mentioned it if they thought he had a condition.

No, I don’t agree at all! DD could not understand what she read, and she suffered selective mutism on and off through school - not one teacher ever noticed either problem! I knew she had problems with executive functioning; I just didn’t know what it was; but I brought up the reading comprehension problems throughout secondary and teachers just commented it was sad!

DH clearly has ADHD, but he had the hyperactivity too - his family used to laugh how he wore the carpets out as a child, always pacing about! Same problems with executive functioning as DD, but both can focus on their special interest for 12 hours or more! It’s exhausting to watch!

Eventually, DD realised at university she has ADD - she got an assessment from the mental health trust, who confirmed the diagnosis! I’ve come across 3 other students, DC of friends, who were also diagnosed with ADD or dyslexia at university!

I can’t speak for schools, but at university she gets:

1. Extended deadlines for all assessed work
2. A dictaphone to record all lectures
3. A study mentor to help with study skills
4. Extra time in exams
5. She has an exam room all to herself (as noise of other people distracts her)
6. Movement breaks in exams
7. All lectures are online anyway
8. All work is marked anonymously, but with a yellow sticker for specific learning difficulties
9. Print cartridges

10. A laptop if she needed one; she would have had to pay the 1st £200 and they would have paid the rest - but we had already bought her one!

I agree it’s too late for DC’s results this year; but a diagnosis if he gets one, would make a massive difference at university! It’s not just attention though - it’s forgetfulness, disorganisation, butting in and talking over people in conversation, failure to understand instructions/conversation/books/films, unable to see what the important thing is to do (instead get distracted by something irrelevant to the situation), cannot tidy up, emotional hyper-reactivity....

hello OP.

Sounds like my son DS16. I have suspected low level ADHD since he was about 13, and we have talked about it too. It might not have been strong enough for a diagnosis, although I did consider that route; but I also considered what would the label achieve.

The fact that your DH says he can focus on his phone or computer games is not the point. ADHD can mean they can also "hyperfocus" when something is very interesting or exciting to them.

You can ask SENCO at school to test him when he goes back (to year 13) but they would have to get on to it quickly to get any extra time with exams, as this process does not happen overnight. You do not have to have a diagnosis of ADHD to get this help.

I have to say I do find it frustrating at times with my son. He can be caring - but his passivity, forgetfulness, his lateness, his intransigience and argumentativeness can be wearing at times. I do have some rules and boundaries and expectations, but I have also to remember this is who he is and there are limits to what I as a parent can do. I hope that helps.

Just flagging up, computer science is not the same as gaming. There are Games design courses if that's what he wants to do. Computer Science is really competitive- so if his grades are not going to be top notch, it might be worth thinking about alternatives. Start looking at courses how-to there's a vast range out there.
As for ADHD, unless you go private you'll be unlikely to get a diagnosis quickly, though still worth trying for as it might lead to extra help at uni. Speak tothe Senco or inclusion manager at school, they might be able to put extra support in place, or arrange for extra time in exams.

Also don't let him spend all his time gaming, it's addictive. You can put on controls so that he can't get internet after an agreed time. With hindsight, I wish I'd been stricter about this. They need help to resist temptation, to let them have time to do schoolwork properly and get enough sleep. If they're gaming they go into zombie mode. Talk to him and get him to agree to limit gaming time if he is serious about going to university. That's assuming school will let him continue with those grades- lots won't.

There are some online ADHD tests online, obviously not a diagnosis, but might give you some idea of what's going on.

Does it help him focus if he's doing something else at the same time (e.g. doodling, fiddling with something)?

It might be worth talking to the school SENCO. I do think that if a child presents as basically coping and appears bright but lazy, SEN is often not looked into. Teachers can also be very wary about bringing things like ADHD up unless there's a huge issue, for all sorts of reasons.

Can you have a really 100% honest chat with him about what he thinks about the possibility of having ADHD? And maybe also a 100% honest, no judgement chat about why he struggled at AS? (Maybe not at the same time!).

How is he if he's not able to game for any reason, or asked to switch the game off suddenly?

Thanks awfully everyone I will talk to him when his (a* in everything) sister is not around as she likes to chip in with helpful advice!

We do have private healthcare so might be worth checking if that's a route I could look at but will definitely try and speak to school/senco first. Thanks again

I did consider that route; but I also considered what would the label achieve.

Not to derail the thread but your DS would need formal diagnosis to get adaptations at university such as extra time in exams, deadline flexibility, tools for recording teaching, handouts in advance, support with organisation, etc. The system for adults (including university) is very different from school. It's based on disability legislation and not on access to the curriculum.

The school will definitely not suggest if they think it’s adhd. They are neither psychologists nor in that zone in secondary.

I would see if you can get a QB test done for him add-Vance can advise you on this.

If you have private health insurance you should be able then to get an assessment done. If he doesn’t have adhd then there is no harm done. If he does then medication/ techniques may help him. It is never too late. Or look up the adhd foundation and ask them for some guidance. 🙂

AnAcademic - thank you, its important to point out the difference in approach between schools and universities. I think you are saying University requires a diagnosis, a school does not. I was under the impression that you needed a diagnosis for school support, so I was quite surprised to find out that you didn't necessarily.

But I think really the most important thing is the conversation with your DS, OP. I did consider a private psychiatric evaluation, but DS was reluctant. He was resistant to the conversation about ADHD and was quite oppositional. In the end I left it, as apart from some academic support it was unclear what would be achieved by the diagnosis, plus he was probably borderline. So do think it through. I went to my GP to talk about it and she was quite good actually at clarifiying this for me.

But hopefully the possibility that he may have this may help him in the future. Adults today with ADHD often have a 'kerchung' moment when they realise that this is part of their difficulty, and they can try ways to support and help themselves if they want to. It is, however, a sensitive conversationt to be had with some teens.

*P.S. I am not sure if a private evaluation is totally valid for schools and universities - you might need to check that. I understood that sometimes only NHS diagnosis' are acceptable.

I dunno. You could be talking about DS there although younger and sociable he fits a lot of that criteria too and I’ve ne er thought about ADD, I did think ASD when younger but not now I know a lot more about it from a profession standpoint.,
No harm in speaking to GP about it in terms of it affecting his grades and future, if gp felt a referral was suitable then you could Persue it.
I worry re DS as he’s clever but lazy AF and I need to be on his case so he does put the effort in and not game all evening (if there was a gcse in gaming he’d get a 9). When he does work he is up there at the top. I have proved this to myself when I left him to his own devices for half a term as I had other stuff going on. Argh!

It's really tricky, I've tried to talk to him and he was immediately hostile so I left it and asked him to google it and talk to me when he's ready. I think the thing that is baffling is he is so articulate and knowledgeable about so many things, he'll just spout random fascinating things every now and then and I think this is just not stacking up with your performance in school - wtf? We have to go into school on Tuesday and grovel for them to let him retake the year (rightly so obvs) so I will try and mention it then as well assuming Ds is ok with it by then - fingers crossed. I will come and update, thanks to everyone for your thoughts x

I'm not entirely surprised OP, its quite a lot to take in, and no teenager wants to think that they are "different", understandably. Your DS might even be quite upset about the whole issue. I'd give him some time to process it; I am sure he is an intelligent boy and when he reads about it he will have very good understanding. In the end he has got to be happy about going down whatever route he chooses. When I was (manically) trying to work this all out - I think I was in a confused and distressed state at times - partly because we had some behaviour issues as well - I was at my wits end and it was very difficult to get to the bottom of it. The school was reluctant, my GP was reluctant, my son was reluctant. But I think it has all worked out for the best because my son may get some extra time in sixth form, without having the medical ADHD assessment; though he has that choice in the future. Of course your son may be happy to go down that route - every child/teen is different and you have lots of options to consider. I also think it might be worth seeing your GP about it. The first GP wasn't very helpful - I was told to go to the school - who had told me to go to the GP! But the second one was helpful in understanding my/our dilemma. Good luck.

university.which.co.uk/subjects/computer-games-design-and-programming

A-levels (or equivalent) usually required

Maths
Useful to have

Further maths
Physics
Computing
Philosophy
ICT

Slightly late to this thread, but before retaking the year you have to think carefully about what will be different this year from last, because if nothing changes he will likely get the same results.

Have you considered whether a BTEC Extended Diploma might have more chance of success?

Hi all, Ds is now mostly sorted with school and has restarted year 12 with one a level and is doing the btec business course as well to give him the best chance (hopefully) of getting into uni.

I have looked into adhd a little further and now Ds has thought about it and can see what I'm talking about, I'm going to get him (and myself actually) assessed privately, my healthcare company helpfully doesn't cover this so can anyone advise best course of action to do this. Should I see gp and get them to suggest somewhere or just google. I don't know anything about this field so not sure if I go to a random company their diagnosis would be 'valid' with school etc iyswim?

Btw I'm still not convinced that both of us are not just lazy - just feel I'd rather get confirmation either way - thanks in advance

a friend of mine got her daughter's adhd diagnosis through a private assessment with a private psychiatrist

The diagnosis has not helped in their case, as yes she was given medication and it was relief to know the reason that was underlying her behaviour, but she treated as an opt-out clause and stopped trying (if that makes sense) as it was pointless as she had adhd anyway. Then all kinds of issues about her not wanting to take meds and not wanting to drug herself just for the sake of her parents (teens....)

You can get a bit stuck in getting the "label" but the real question is: "what now"?

My DS (17) is dyslexic, but it has just meant he has had to try harder at GCSE English than others. There was no magic get-out clause, just work a bit harder.

Can you limit his gaming in any way? is he addicted? Gaming can really get in the way of revising. It's so all consuming. I'd try and limit his gaming (hard, at his age) and drop the job (if you can afford it) and get him to really concentrate on his studies.

Just a thought, lack of sleep can cause these symptoms, you mentioned he was a gamer- I would keep tabs on nighttime gaming

Glad to hear you got things sorted for sixth form, OP :-).

Re. the diagnosis route. I only went so far (and we didn't do it in the end - as I said I wasn't sure what the "label" would achieve esp. as son probably borderline, and I also considered possible disadvantages of such a label further along the line ...).

Anyway, I basically googled for private psychiatrists who diagnose ADHD, and tried to read some reviews where possible. I went so far as to make an appointment, which I cancelled. I can't remember the cost - it was usually around £2000 if I remember, which I had to borrow.

However, do be careful about this. A friend of a friend of mine went down this private route, hoping to get some extra time for "A" levels etc. She did get a diagnosis of some kind for her son ADHD I think - but no extra time! As far as I am aware schools do not accept private diagnosis as an automatic signal for extra help - they only accept diagnosis via the NHS. I may be wrong on this point, but it is worth clarifying to be 100% sure - as otherwise you may spend alot of money and your son will get no extra help etc. Also, I think you may still have to go through SENCO at school as well. Your son's school should advise you on their correct procedure - which can take a long time (at least in our case!) as the examining board have to be told months and months in advance of the exam! For an NHS diagnosis you would need to go via Camhs (possibly GP I'm not sure).

The whole thing is a long process. SENCO should be able to help you; as for an immediate appointment if you can. Your GP should also be able to help you with the decision.

Oh, I accidentally came across this today re. ADHD and hunter-gatherers. Its a bit bonkers, but maybe worth a read .... ?! :-)

the-big-ger-picture.blogspot.com/

^ OOps, wrong one, that one was nuts.

This is the one I originally saw.

the-big-ger-picture.blogspot.com/2019/08/the-evolutionary-psychology-of.html

Sorry, am useless at posting links!

My DP, now 40, has ADHD. He was diagnosed at 16, after he'd left school, where he'd been written off as bright but lazy. He was put on ritalin but when he moved to the UK at 34 didn't register with a GP so stopped being able to access it. When we met he'd just got a First Class uni degree and been accepted onto a fully bursaried PhD but wasn't doing any work. I paid for him to see an ed psych privately who, again, diagnosed him with ADHD and prescribed Concerta. The difference in his ability to focus and organise himself was really astonishing to see, he is almost a different person (far less moody). It is so worth pursuing if you think this is a possibility. I understand the temptation to ignore it in case you're just looking to excuse a lazy boy, but if he is ADHD this could help him enormously, especially with accessing support at university if he goes; and if he isn't, what have you lost? I know my DP is quite bitter that his school and his parents chose to believe he was shirking rather than struggling through no fault of his own.

He can concentrate on using his phone or playing computer games because those aren’t uninviting tasks.