Teenage daughter hasn’t spoken to her older brother for 18 months.

[Bexesangel]

Dd ( now 17)has been a challenging teenager to put it mildly.
18 months ago she was extremely rude (again) to me in front of her brother ( now 19).
Her brother reacted and grabbed her and pulled her hair and slapped her and told her he was fed up of her behaviour towards me.
Since that time Dd has point blank refused to interact/speak to her brother.
Last year on her birthday he wrote her a card & said some nice words in an attempt to apologise- however because he wrote LOL in the card she said it wasn’t a proper apology & he was making light of what he had done - and so the ignoring continues.
Understandably this has caused me a great deal of stress and living together is so uncomfortable.
My son is so upset and regrets what he did.
He says that living with her is so awful he wishes she would leave & live with her father.
I have tried so many times to get her to see that her brother is sorry and to let bygones be bygones but she won’t.
Christmas is coming up & I can’t see how we can have a happy day with such an awkward atmosphere.
I have suggested taking the 2 of them out for a meal / other events but she just refuses.
I have just suggested this again and lost it when she refused- asking her what sort of Christmas she thinks we’ll have & telling her if she keeps up this grudge she can go to her Father for Christmas.
What can I do?

🙈 god people LOVE to over react! At this rate, in a decades time there’ll be a special unit of the police force dedicated to ‘arresting’ nine year olds for slapping their siblings- then we can televise the court judgment and make it into some sort of reality show!

🙄😒 FFS SIBLINGS FIGHT! When we were teens my brother and I slapped each other and called each other names....nobody was arrested!!! Shock horror. Stop trying to make this some politically correct abuse drama and calm TF down- it’s literally not the same as if her BF was doing it to her AT ALL.

OP your DD sounds like an unreasonable aresehole and that’s from somebody not too much older than her (early 20’s)

FFS SIBLINGS FIGHT! When we were teens my brother and I slapped each other and called each other names..

@IAmAllAsttonishnent but what if her OP's daughter doesn't want to have her hair pulled and be slapped? Does she have to accept it because they're siblings?

She doesn’t want to speak to him. You need to accept this. Maybe she will change her mind but you can’t force her.

I'm 25 and still find myself going "Muuuuuum!!! Tell himmmmmm!!!"

So because you still behave like a child, it's ok for others to do likewise?

I'm sorry, but it really isn't normal for siblings of this age to get into physical fights. A sibling relationship isn't a free pass to assault someone, and regardless of what you say, this clearly wasn't just a silly sibling squabble for the person who was assaulted, otherwise it would have all blown over long ago. Surely it is up to the victim of the assault to decide whether or not she wishes to forgive and forget.

Ffs at all the 'it's abuuuuuuse' wailings on here! No it wasn't great behaviour on either of their part but how typical of mumsnetters to advocate calling the police, cutting off all ties, going NC, LTB etc etc at the slightest provocation - if this was RL the advice OP got would be completely different!

The person who gets to decide if it's abuse is the person on the receiving end. Are the people who are saying that posters are overreacting really saying that she doesn't get to decide if she forgives her brother for slapping her?

Is there nothing more to this than the one incident? It seems a lot for her to be bearing a grudge for so long over this one thing, if they've normally forgiven each other in other ways. And I agree that an apology written in a card with "lol" isn't really an apology.

Has one of them frequently wound up the other, and been allowed to get away with it?

I don't know if this is what was going on in your situation, OP, but I was constantly wound up and teased by my younger brother. He would do it, knowing it would upset me; if I retaliated I would be punished, told I was older and should know better; he was allowed to say cheerfully "this is normal family fun", and if I tried to defend myself I would frequently be told "you're over-reacting", or "stop bickering", or "you're spoiling the holiday for everyone else", or "stop being unpleasant", or "he's little", or "oh let him..." etc. If I ever teased him, he would run crying to mum and dad, and I would be punished. The resentment added up, ran very deep, and I would have gone totally non-contact with him (while still living there) if I could get away with it. Even now I'm civil, but the simmering resentment is there.

The family dynamics sound out of kilter here and one adolescent hitting another in defense of a parent are a sign of this. It suggests that neither dc see you as a parent in charge so they are making up their own family structures with chaotic consequences. I see you are in agreement with family therapy, it isn't easy to access but if you can it would be a good way forward.

IamAll the boy was not 9, he was 17. Nobody at all has suggested calling the police, you've made that bit up.

It is not remotely normal for siblings to be hair pulling and slapping at 17. It is a normal part of some sibling relationships in childhood, but absolutely not once they're well into puberty and close to being legally adults. Just because you act like a child at 25 does not make that normal. Some men hit their wives. It happens depressingly often. It is, however, not normal . Just because something happens in some families, does not in itself mean it's normal and people should get over it.

Just because something happens in some families, does not in itself mean it's normal and people should get over it.

Exactly! Some people seem to have some very warped ideas about what healthy sibling relationships are supposed to look like. Hint: just because you grew up together, it doesn't mean you still have to act like six year olds around each other.

@blueskies

I suggest you actually read the thread- there are multiple references to the police

IAmAll the only references to the police are hyperbolic ones used by posters claiming it's normal for 17 year old boys to slap their sisters and anyone who doesn't think it's normal wants the police involved in sibling spats.

Ok, reread and there are a couple of posts saying he's lucky she didn't involve the police, none saying that the OP should call the police!

He lost control once because of her behaving atrociously towards you again and again. She needs to consider her own behaviour which contributed to the situation. If she won't accept her brother after he has apologised, and after all this time, one of them needs to move out.

My two youngest (boy and girl, 13 months difference in age) bickered but if either had ever assaulted the other once they were over 9 there would have been huge consequences delivered by me.
OP I cannot believe you dismiss his attack as a 'silly hair pull and light slap'. She has absolutely nothing to apologise for and he needs to deliver a sincere apology to her. But as you've failed as a mother already that's obviously not going to happen. You've let your DD down and you should be ashamed of yourself for favouring your horrible bully of a son.

If anyone laid a finger on me, I would not be speaking to them again. My kids will be taught to value themselves highly as well.
This situation might have been salvageable but it must be awful for your DD to know that you are very much on your son's side.

He lost control once because of her behaving atrociously towards you again and again.

God- it's beginning to sound like an article about one of those 'lovely' husbands who 'snaps' and kills his wife.

It is not ok pull someone's hair and slap them even if he was 'provoked'

So what happens when he has a partner and they wind him up? Stop fucking worrying about Christmas and sort your family out. Teenagers are horrible, some of them worse but all you've done on here is emphasize how wonderful he is and how horrid she is. 1

Crikey, some Mumsnetters are super dramatic....your daughter is being a classic teenage brat. Family counselling sounds like a good idea as it's gone on too long

However horrible she has been, he’s nearly an adult, he hit her and pulled her hair, and the most he can manage to do to make amends is a total non apology. Seriously, OP, this family dynamic is way off. Do you favour your son over your daughter? It sounds that way.

at 17.5, he is virtually an adult and should be capable of controlling his emotions

Yet on another thread today, 17 yos can't be expected to travel home in a cab at night, even with another person, and can only be safe if collected in the car by a parent when they require it.

I could understand the uproar if he had blacked her eye and ripped her hair clean off her scalp but sounds like a silly sibling spat to me.
Me and my brother were always punching each other's arms, nipping and slapping at each other even right up until 18. I would never call the police on him nor would he expect me to call them on him.
Siblings fight it's that simple.
It sounds as though he was angry with her and in the heat of the moment lost his temper, which can be understandable. Hitting your sibling compared to a stranger is a completely different kind of 'assault'.
I hope they make up soon OP if I were you I would just leave them to it. They will grow out of it eventually and adore each other like I do with my brother now.

@JellieEllie doesn't the OP's daughter get to decide what level of assault is acceptable to her. If she doesn't want her brother to pull her hair and slap her surely that's ok?

There are two separate issues, and the chain of causation was definitely broken
Younger Teenage dd was a madam. Out of order and needs to be dealt with.
Older teen almost adult DS hurt hur - he doesn’t have a just reason to
if your DS wants to make amends AND YES ALL ONUS IS ON HIM then he needs to apologise properly, with sincerity, he needs to try and understand how he impacted her. He also needs to understand he might have to give her processing time. No “lols” or shit jokes, but proper remorse, care and compassion
(If you need guidance on this look up the YJBs restorative conferencing toolkit or phone your local youth offending team and ask for help)

@NerrSnerr There was a thread on here the other day where a teenage girl had been told by her father that if she carried on behaving in a certain way then someone would end up punching her one day.
Hundreds of posters agreed it was completely acceptable to say this considering her behaviour.
So no, I think if you are going to continue acting like a little bitch and push someone too far after plenty of warnings, one day you are bound to end up pissing off the wrong person. And no I don't believe in violence I really don't. If he had attacked her viciously and seriously injured her then yes of course she is well within her rights to press charges for assault. However if she has been acting like a whiny little brat and is pissing off her brother and her mother and being disrespectful and challenging towards them, I can see why he slapped her.