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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD15 wants to move out just after her birthday

140 replies

chocolateneededplease · 19/03/2017 17:54

I'm not sure how to feel about this. My DD is 15, and will be 16 in July. Her boyfriend (19-yes I know) is applying for a apprenticeship and if he gets it he will be on £200 a month. This apprenticeship will be about 50 minutes drive away from my house. My DD will be starting college in September and she would qualify for the free college bus there and back and for EMA. She said she would get a part time job and with that and EMA, be able to afford everything needed.
I don't doubt she'd be able to look after herself, even now she's able to be left for the weekend and cook/clean/look after the dogs but it just seems awfully young. I overheard her on the phone to BF and was talking about meal planning and direct debits for bills in a separate account and bill buying and Lidl shops so she's obviously been thinking for this for a while (and I've rubbed off on her by the sounds of it Blush) I know it's legal for her to move out but it just doesn't sit right with me. What's your opinion?

OP posts:
Underthemoonlight · 20/03/2017 17:22

Travelled she got with her BF afew months after her 15th birthday that's different to a 17 year old!

therootoftheroot · 20/03/2017 17:57

i don't understand all the people saying 'you can't stop her'

do you all really have no control over the behaviour of your teens?
really? none whatsoever?

Because I have control over my 17 year old and if said he was going to move into a flat with a girl he would be very firmly told 'no you're not!'

alltouchedout · 20/03/2017 18:15

I think people saying "you can't stop her" may have experience of cases where teenagers have demonstrated exactly that.

BigSandyBalls2015 · 20/03/2017 18:50

The level of 'control' you have on your teens depends solely on the personality of the teen. If you have a reasonable teen then discussions and compromise will work, hopefully. If you have an unreasonable teen whose response to discussion and compromise is "fuck off im doing it anyway" then the reality is that you have no control whatsoever. It's a scary realisation.

Underthemoonlight · 20/03/2017 18:50

Op has a duty of care and at the age of just turning 15 she should have reported him to the police not encouraged this relationship.

Look at Adam Johnson he was jailed for sexual acts with a 15year old this is no different. I'm pretty appaulled a mother can see no issue with this.

TwentyCups · 20/03/2017 21:07

How could you possibly stop her? Lock her in at all times?

AndKnowItsSeven · 20/03/2017 21:11

Child protection orders and care orders can be made for 16 year olds.

TwentyCups · 20/03/2017 21:15

Yes but if they were living in a flat together - not a squat, not with multiple occupants - both were in work and she was continuing with her education I really doubt SS would be ordering her home if she didn't want to go.

TwentyCups · 20/03/2017 21:16

And I might be wrong but I think they are more likely in the case of 16 year olds that are still in year 11.

Chippednailvarnishing · 20/03/2017 21:19

If I thought he was going to harm my daughter in any way, I would have called the police as I have done in the past on a 'boyfriend' of hers

There's something seriously amiss when a 15 year old has a history of past boyfriends.

Desperateforsleepzzzz · 20/03/2017 21:20

5 months is no time at all 😳 I'd say no ! Can't you say to her that you'll chat about it when they've been together 18 months?

clumsyduck · 20/03/2017 21:43

I appreciate op with a headstrong teen it's may be hard to stop them but honestly this is depressing all round

You say you don't think he'd harm her but whether you like it or not a 19 year old in a relationship with a 15 year old is illegal . If there having sex then legally she cannot consent . So it is not down to you to decide whether there is harm or not by the very nature of the law there is harm .

Secondly what kind of life is it for a 15 year old to be in such a serious relationship , planning budgeting and running a home ? She should be with her friends having fun , enjoy might being carefree , getting an education and aspiring to have a career not getting stuck in the daily grind so young .

I would imagine a lot of this for her stems from worrying about been so far from her boyfriend and not seeing him as much , I get it , when I was younger ( altho a bit older than 15) I would be blindly in love and not see the bigger picture ... Teenagers often can't this is why it's your job to guide her

leonardthelemming · 21/03/2017 15:16

Well! What started out as an encouraging and helpful thread has turned into a soapbox for the naysayers to promote their extremist views. I was just going to lurk, but there is just so much misinformation being spouted that I feel I have to respond. So here goes – in no particular order.

It will be long...

It is not illegal for a 19-year-old to be in a relationship with a 15-year-old. If you think my statement is false, then please provide a link to the relevant legislation where you got your information from. If they engage in any type of sexual activity – even kissing – then technically it is illegal, but it might not be punished, as per this example:

A few years ago I taught a 15-year-old girl who was in a relationship with a 21-year-old, so an even bigger age gap than in the OP’s DD’s case. They had sex. Her father found out and went absolutely ballistic – much like some of the naysayers on here. He reported the BF to the police; wanted him sent to prison, put on the sex offenders register, etc. But, the girl refused to make a statement which might incriminate him, and begged and pleaded with her father not to press charges. Eventually, after a nail-biting few days, he acquiesced. The police, having no evidence to proceed to court, dropped the case and they all lived happily ever after. There was no “grooming” involved. The girl, determined enough to stand up to her father, was also capable of standing up to her BF had he tried to put pressure on her. It was her free choice to have sex.

And bear in mind that in every European country except the UK, The Netherlands, and Belgium, this would be completely legal. Canada, too. And in the case of Canada, it’s legal under recent (2014, I think) legislation intended to tighten up the sex offence laws. (A person no older than 19 may legally have sex with a person no younger than 14, provided there is no coercion and the older person is not in a position of trust over the younger person.) Obviously that doesn’t apply in the UK, but to say it’s morally wrong is ridiculous.

Furthermore, it is not automatically rape if the girl is under 16. I’ve explained this before so go and check out some of my other posts or look it up for yourself. I’m fed up with correcting people who make statements without checking their facts.

And I get really annoyed with this assumption that all boys/young men are only interested in sex and that the BF is “grooming” the OP’s DD. This is a stereotypical urban myth which is not true and perpetuating it is unhelpful. And I have a personal interest here, as follows:

When DS2 was 19 he came back to live with us after having lived by himself while doing his A levels (more on that later). He met a 16-year-old girl and they began a relationship. I will be very angry at any suggestion he was “grooming” her. (And since the OP’s DD’s BF is only just 19 and the DD will be 16 in three months, it’s a very similar age gap.)
DS2 respected his GF. He encouraged her to work hard at her A levels. He looked after her when she was ill (her parents seemed pretty useless). And of course she was welcome to stay over at ours and share his bed, because she was his girlfriend and if he wanted to be with her then we wanted to support that. In fact we were quite disappointed when they eventually drifted apart – despite that it was an amicable break-up with no regrets on either side – because we liked the girl and thought they made a good couple. But it was their choice.

But all this presupposes that the young couple are having sex. They might not be. It is by no means axiomatic that they are for reasons I’ve given above. They might be waiting until she’s 16. From the OP’s description her DD sounds like a determined girl who has her head screwed on – much like the girl I described earlier. Again, I will be very offended at any suggestion it might be otherwise. My DW and I brought our sons up to respect girls, and I respected girls too. A personal example:

When I was 17 I began a relationship with a girl a year younger than me. We were at school. That relationship lasted three years, so we were at uni when it eventually ended. In that whole time, we did not have sex. And the reason was that she wanted to wait until marriage. I thought her point of view was a bit old-fashioned but it was her choice and I respected that. And although we discussed marriage, in the event we split up and each married someone else, so we managed to have a relationship without sex. It can be done.

Right, let’s leave the sex aspect and look at some of the other misleading comments, like this one:

Because I have control over my 17 year old and if said he was going to move into a flat with a girl he would be very firmly told 'no you're not!'

You have no legal right to say this. A 17-year-old may leave home and live independently/with someone of their own choice and they do not need parental permission. Go and look up the legislation. Technically, a 16-year-old does need parental permission but it looks like the OP’s DD will get that. And even if she didn’t, as TwentyCups pointed out, SS would only be likely to consider a care order if the young person was at risk. And, from the scenario described, she wouldn’t be. If she were planning to leave home and sleep rough under a railway bridge with a group of druggies it might be a different matter, but she’s not.

And while I’m on this aspect, some people seem to think the girl is planning on leaving home now, while she’s still 15. She’s not. Right from the OP’s first post it has been clear that she intends to wait until her 16th birthday, so it will be legal. Furthermore, a more recent post from the OP suggests that her DD has now agreed to defer moving out until November/December. This, to me, suggests that the OP and her daughter have a very good, close, working relationship, and that the girl is sufficiently clued up to think things through.

Next, this:

At 15/16 I was going to parties and dreaming of university and changing the world. The idea of living on my own or having that kind of serious relationship didn't even enter my head.

Fine, but it’s obviously entered the OP’s DD’s head. And she sounds mature enough to be able to make her own decisions about what she wants for the future. Because this:

The ops dd is a CHILD.

Is just plain wrong. Childhood ends at puberty. It’s a biological fact and it’s not up for debate. Of course she’s not an adult yet, but she is an adolescent, which means she’s changing into an adult and there is no universal biological end point to mark the boundary between adolescence and adulthood. Yes, there’s a legal definition but it’s an attempt at a one-size-fits-all description to define a point at which the typical young person is ready to take on the full range of adult responsibilities. It doesn’t really work though – some people are not ready at 18 and they struggle, while others are ready at 16 or in some cases even younger. Wearing my cynical hat I suspect the ones who are not ready have super-controlling parents who try to keep them in a state of extended childhood while the ones who are ready sooner have parents who actively encourage independence (without pushing their offspring before they are ready). I suspect the OP and her DD fall into the latter category. Indeed, it’s entirely possible that the girl may be at least as mature as her BF – perhaps even more so. I’ve met many 15/16-year-old girls who would be capable of this and although moving out at 16 is nowhere near as common as it once was, I suspect that is mainly for financial reasons, particularly because of the high cost of rent. I think many 16-year-olds – particularly those with controlling parents – would like to move out but simply can’t afford it. And equally, there are many who know which side their bread is buttered and think that another two years with a roof over their heads, central heating, meals provided, etc. is an absolute bargain. Especially when they can spend their part-time income on having fun.

And going back to the legal definition, it’s worth remembering that until 1970 the age of majority was 21. I’m old enough to have been caught out by this – I was officially a “child” (or at least a minor) at 20. But then the law changed and by the time I was 21 there was nothing to celebrate. But my point is that any legal definition of “child” later than puberty is meaningless in terms of development and maturity – the things that really matter.

Also be comforted by the fact that girls mature incredibly between the ages of sixteen and eighteen.

My experience is totally different. And I’m basing this on my years spent as a Year 9 form tutor in a girls’ school, as a sixth-form personal/academic tutor (also in a girls’ school), and as a houseparent in a mixed boarding school. I would say that girls mature incredibly between the ages of thirteen and fourteen (immediately post-puberty, which makes a lot of sense biologically, as an evolutionary survival mechanism) but that the rate of increase slows down considerably thereafter. Between sixteen and eighteen I think the variation between individuals is far greater than any overall trend.

And now, education.

I see a child with low self esteem, low aspirations who will likely end up in an abusive relationship seeing how at 15 she already has a pattern of this and will probably be pg before long. Unlikely to finish school.

There's no way she'll want to go to university when she has a flat and a boyfriend to consider.

The first comment is totally OTT, in my opinion. As regards the second, the OP has clearly stated that her DD is adamant that she does not want to go to uni. As someone who has worked in education all his life, I would definitely support someone who wanted to go to uni but I would not push someone who didn’t. It isn’t for everyone. Another example from my own life:

DS1 got three good A levels at the end of Lower sixth. Enough UCAS points to get an unconditional offer from Oxford (which I have heard is a highly-regarded university). He took another four A levels in Upper sixth and went up to Oxford. He loved it there.

At age 15, DS2 announced that he planned to leave home at 16 and live independently. (August birthday so even younger than the OP’s DD.) Not quite the same situation though, as he planned to live in our house while we lived in a tied house (boarding school) so that he could do the particular combination of A levels he wanted to do. (Not available everywhere.) He did this. He even registered at the school himself. We supported him financially. He may have had a girlfriend stay over – we never asked. Since he was 16 by then it was none of our business.

After A levels he decided against uni, despite having the potential. That was his choice. Now, which DS earns more money? DS2. He earns more than I ever did as a teacher, he’s buying a flat in London, and he now has two graduates working under him.

If the OP’s DD is determined, it’s perfectly possible that she could do something similar. She already has her college place sorted out, so she is clearly taking that aspect seriously. It sounds as if her BF will be supportive too.

So, OP, it seems to me that your relationship with your daughter is excellent. You have, by the sound of it, gradually handed the decision-making to her as she has developed the maturity to handle it. Even so, it may not work out in the end. She/they may change their minds. They may split up. Statistically, as a PP pointed out, this often happens with relationships which start young. On the other hand, love at first sight can happen, and I read some evidence recently (but can’t find the link, unfortunately) which implies that young couples who don’t have to sneak around are more likely to stay together, so you never know.

Take no notice of the doom mongers. I wish you and your DD well, whatever the final outcome.

clumsyduck · 21/03/2017 15:36

Check the cps website
It is unlawful for anyone over 18 to have sex with anyone under 16 .
This is not incorrect information.
Whether it will ever make it to prosecution is a different matter entirely

Chippednailvarnishing · 21/03/2017 16:07

Childhood ends at puberty

Yeah so if a girl starts her periods at nine, shes then an adult. Hmm

chocolateneededplease · 21/03/2017 16:14

Thank you Leonard! My daughter and her boyfriend are not having sex. I know my daughter and I know when she is lying. We've (me, her and him) have had a big chat about the legal implications, and I've spoken to both his parents, and my daughter would not risk getting him in trouble. She's sensible and after we sat down she agreed that it would be best to wait until at least November/October, to save up money. I've told her I'll support her and that she'll always be welcome to come back if needed. What would calling the police on him achieve? She in no way would testify against him (and what for? As pointed out, a relationship isn't illegal.) and there would be nothing to base any charges on.

OP posts:
ExitPursuedByUser54321 · 21/03/2017 16:27

My DD is 17 and no way is she mature enough to move out.

I am more interested in why EMA is available in Scotland, Wales and NI and not Enlgand?

ScoobyDoosTinklyLaugh · 21/03/2017 16:50

I'm glad you've come back OP. It must be sad but I'd have loved to have moved out at her age. I love my Mum and had a great family life, I was just fiercely independent when I was that age. It was nothing to do with low aspirations or anything I was just ready to fly the nest. My step sister has just turned 18 and she's so different to how I was, she would happily stay at home forever.

When I went to Uni I picked the wrong course and dropped out, but never in a million years would I go back to my Mums. When I eventually graduated I was absolutely baffled that people willingly moved back into their parents home. I always joke with my Mum that life would have to go badly badly wrong for me to move back in. And I wouldn't be there long!

leonardthelemming · 21/03/2017 17:04

clumsyduck
Check the cps website
It is unlawful for anyone over 18 to have sex with anyone under 16 .
This is not incorrect information.

Read my post. I said it is illegal. For any type of sexual activity.
You said (in a previous post)

a 19 year old in a relationship with a 15 year old is illegal

Since this statement is untrue, it is incorrect information.

leonardthelemming · 21/03/2017 17:17

Chippednailvarnishing
Yeah so if a girl starts her periods at nine, shes then an adult.

Nope. Read my post. According to the OED, childhood ends at the start of puberty. My experience, however, suggests that 11/12-year-olds still exhibit some degree of childlike behaviour (interspersed with flashes of much greater maturity) so I would not be against a slight change in the definition.

By 14 though, no way is a girl a child in any meaningful sense of the word. I said she was an adolescent - far, far closer to adulthood than childhood. In fact, I think this modern tendency to treat young people as children - even to think of them as children - is unhelpful and, although I have no evidence to support it, I suspect it contributes to the increasing levels of stress, self-harm, etc. which seems to be the case among teenagers today.

Prior to the 1944 education act, the school leaving age was 14. 14-year-olds were expected to go to work in an adult environment and act appropriately. As someone who has worked in education and values it I would not advocate a return to such as system but I do think that teenagers respond far better when treated in a more adult way.

And, to quote from a very early episode of Dr Who, when referring to a girl of about the OP's DD's age...

"No longer a child - not yet a woman."

Chippednailvarnishing · 21/03/2017 17:24

You sound like one of those creepy men who make excuses for having sex with underage girls Leonard

WhirlwindHugs · 21/03/2017 17:32

This has gone from "behold, a man has arrived!"

To creepy very damn fast.

clumsyduck · 21/03/2017 17:35

Ahh Leonard is a bloke
That makes sense

I will concede you did say it's not illegal to be in a relationship not sex .however I still wouldn't like either a dd of mine to be in the position of being underage nor ds to potentially put himself in a position where he could end up a criminal

AndKnowItsSeven · 21/03/2017 17:39

"No longer a child - not yet a woman."
Leonard I think you are getting confused with Britney.

leonardthelemming · 21/03/2017 17:49

Ahh Leonard is a bloke
That makes sense

I think I made that clear in my first post, when I referred to my DW.

You sound like one of those creepy men who make excuses for having sex with underage girls Leonard

This has gone from "behold, a man has arrived!"
To creepy very damn fast.

You know, I find these statements quite offensive. In no way have I advocated underage sex. In fact, I surmised that the OP's DD and her boyfriend were not having sex - something which the OP has now confirmed.
I pointed out that I personally did not have sex with my 16-year-old girlfriend (many years ago) even though it would have been legal.
My sons have not had sex with underage girls.
I mentioned a 15-year-old girl who did have sex with her 21-year-old boyfriend as an example of a case which did not go to court. I did not state either way whether I thought it was a good thing although I did point out that in very many countries the girl would not be considered underage. That is the way the legal systems in those countries work and I was stating facts.

Why do you find this creepy? Surprise is no longer adequate and I am force to resort to astonishment.

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