Well! What started out as an encouraging and helpful thread has turned into a soapbox for the naysayers to promote their extremist views. I was just going to lurk, but there is just so much misinformation being spouted that I feel I have to respond. So here goes – in no particular order.
It will be long...
It is not illegal for a 19-year-old to be in a relationship with a 15-year-old. If you think my statement is false, then please provide a link to the relevant legislation where you got your information from. If they engage in any type of sexual activity – even kissing – then technically it is illegal, but it might not be punished, as per this example:
A few years ago I taught a 15-year-old girl who was in a relationship with a 21-year-old, so an even bigger age gap than in the OP’s DD’s case. They had sex. Her father found out and went absolutely ballistic – much like some of the naysayers on here. He reported the BF to the police; wanted him sent to prison, put on the sex offenders register, etc. But, the girl refused to make a statement which might incriminate him, and begged and pleaded with her father not to press charges. Eventually, after a nail-biting few days, he acquiesced. The police, having no evidence to proceed to court, dropped the case and they all lived happily ever after. There was no “grooming” involved. The girl, determined enough to stand up to her father, was also capable of standing up to her BF had he tried to put pressure on her. It was her free choice to have sex.
And bear in mind that in every European country except the UK, The Netherlands, and Belgium, this would be completely legal. Canada, too. And in the case of Canada, it’s legal under recent (2014, I think) legislation intended to tighten up the sex offence laws. (A person no older than 19 may legally have sex with a person no younger than 14, provided there is no coercion and the older person is not in a position of trust over the younger person.) Obviously that doesn’t apply in the UK, but to say it’s morally wrong is ridiculous.
Furthermore, it is not automatically rape if the girl is under 16. I’ve explained this before so go and check out some of my other posts or look it up for yourself. I’m fed up with correcting people who make statements without checking their facts.
And I get really annoyed with this assumption that all boys/young men are only interested in sex and that the BF is “grooming” the OP’s DD. This is a stereotypical urban myth which is not true and perpetuating it is unhelpful. And I have a personal interest here, as follows:
When DS2 was 19 he came back to live with us after having lived by himself while doing his A levels (more on that later). He met a 16-year-old girl and they began a relationship. I will be very angry at any suggestion he was “grooming” her. (And since the OP’s DD’s BF is only just 19 and the DD will be 16 in three months, it’s a very similar age gap.)
DS2 respected his GF. He encouraged her to work hard at her A levels. He looked after her when she was ill (her parents seemed pretty useless). And of course she was welcome to stay over at ours and share his bed, because she was his girlfriend and if he wanted to be with her then we wanted to support that. In fact we were quite disappointed when they eventually drifted apart – despite that it was an amicable break-up with no regrets on either side – because we liked the girl and thought they made a good couple. But it was their choice.
But all this presupposes that the young couple are having sex. They might not be. It is by no means axiomatic that they are for reasons I’ve given above. They might be waiting until she’s 16. From the OP’s description her DD sounds like a determined girl who has her head screwed on – much like the girl I described earlier. Again, I will be very offended at any suggestion it might be otherwise. My DW and I brought our sons up to respect girls, and I respected girls too. A personal example:
When I was 17 I began a relationship with a girl a year younger than me. We were at school. That relationship lasted three years, so we were at uni when it eventually ended. In that whole time, we did not have sex. And the reason was that she wanted to wait until marriage. I thought her point of view was a bit old-fashioned but it was her choice and I respected that. And although we discussed marriage, in the event we split up and each married someone else, so we managed to have a relationship without sex. It can be done.
Right, let’s leave the sex aspect and look at some of the other misleading comments, like this one:
Because I have control over my 17 year old and if said he was going to move into a flat with a girl he would be very firmly told 'no you're not!'
You have no legal right to say this. A 17-year-old may leave home and live independently/with someone of their own choice and they do not need parental permission. Go and look up the legislation. Technically, a 16-year-old does need parental permission but it looks like the OP’s DD will get that. And even if she didn’t, as TwentyCups pointed out, SS would only be likely to consider a care order if the young person was at risk. And, from the scenario described, she wouldn’t be. If she were planning to leave home and sleep rough under a railway bridge with a group of druggies it might be a different matter, but she’s not.
And while I’m on this aspect, some people seem to think the girl is planning on leaving home now, while she’s still 15. She’s not. Right from the OP’s first post it has been clear that she intends to wait until her 16th birthday, so it will be legal. Furthermore, a more recent post from the OP suggests that her DD has now agreed to defer moving out until November/December. This, to me, suggests that the OP and her daughter have a very good, close, working relationship, and that the girl is sufficiently clued up to think things through.
Next, this:
At 15/16 I was going to parties and dreaming of university and changing the world. The idea of living on my own or having that kind of serious relationship didn't even enter my head.
Fine, but it’s obviously entered the OP’s DD’s head. And she sounds mature enough to be able to make her own decisions about what she wants for the future. Because this:
The ops dd is a CHILD.
Is just plain wrong. Childhood ends at puberty. It’s a biological fact and it’s not up for debate. Of course she’s not an adult yet, but she is an adolescent, which means she’s changing into an adult and there is no universal biological end point to mark the boundary between adolescence and adulthood. Yes, there’s a legal definition but it’s an attempt at a one-size-fits-all description to define a point at which the typical young person is ready to take on the full range of adult responsibilities. It doesn’t really work though – some people are not ready at 18 and they struggle, while others are ready at 16 or in some cases even younger. Wearing my cynical hat I suspect the ones who are not ready have super-controlling parents who try to keep them in a state of extended childhood while the ones who are ready sooner have parents who actively encourage independence (without pushing their offspring before they are ready). I suspect the OP and her DD fall into the latter category. Indeed, it’s entirely possible that the girl may be at least as mature as her BF – perhaps even more so. I’ve met many 15/16-year-old girls who would be capable of this and although moving out at 16 is nowhere near as common as it once was, I suspect that is mainly for financial reasons, particularly because of the high cost of rent. I think many 16-year-olds – particularly those with controlling parents – would like to move out but simply can’t afford it. And equally, there are many who know which side their bread is buttered and think that another two years with a roof over their heads, central heating, meals provided, etc. is an absolute bargain. Especially when they can spend their part-time income on having fun.
And going back to the legal definition, it’s worth remembering that until 1970 the age of majority was 21. I’m old enough to have been caught out by this – I was officially a “child” (or at least a minor) at 20. But then the law changed and by the time I was 21 there was nothing to celebrate. But my point is that any legal definition of “child” later than puberty is meaningless in terms of development and maturity – the things that really matter.
Also be comforted by the fact that girls mature incredibly between the ages of sixteen and eighteen.
My experience is totally different. And I’m basing this on my years spent as a Year 9 form tutor in a girls’ school, as a sixth-form personal/academic tutor (also in a girls’ school), and as a houseparent in a mixed boarding school. I would say that girls mature incredibly between the ages of thirteen and fourteen (immediately post-puberty, which makes a lot of sense biologically, as an evolutionary survival mechanism) but that the rate of increase slows down considerably thereafter. Between sixteen and eighteen I think the variation between individuals is far greater than any overall trend.
And now, education.
I see a child with low self esteem, low aspirations who will likely end up in an abusive relationship seeing how at 15 she already has a pattern of this and will probably be pg before long. Unlikely to finish school.
There's no way she'll want to go to university when she has a flat and a boyfriend to consider.
The first comment is totally OTT, in my opinion. As regards the second, the OP has clearly stated that her DD is adamant that she does not want to go to uni. As someone who has worked in education all his life, I would definitely support someone who wanted to go to uni but I would not push someone who didn’t. It isn’t for everyone. Another example from my own life:
DS1 got three good A levels at the end of Lower sixth. Enough UCAS points to get an unconditional offer from Oxford (which I have heard is a highly-regarded university). He took another four A levels in Upper sixth and went up to Oxford. He loved it there.
At age 15, DS2 announced that he planned to leave home at 16 and live independently. (August birthday so even younger than the OP’s DD.) Not quite the same situation though, as he planned to live in our house while we lived in a tied house (boarding school) so that he could do the particular combination of A levels he wanted to do. (Not available everywhere.) He did this. He even registered at the school himself. We supported him financially. He may have had a girlfriend stay over – we never asked. Since he was 16 by then it was none of our business.
After A levels he decided against uni, despite having the potential. That was his choice. Now, which DS earns more money? DS2. He earns more than I ever did as a teacher, he’s buying a flat in London, and he now has two graduates working under him.
If the OP’s DD is determined, it’s perfectly possible that she could do something similar. She already has her college place sorted out, so she is clearly taking that aspect seriously. It sounds as if her BF will be supportive too.
So, OP, it seems to me that your relationship with your daughter is excellent. You have, by the sound of it, gradually handed the decision-making to her as she has developed the maturity to handle it. Even so, it may not work out in the end. She/they may change their minds. They may split up. Statistically, as a PP pointed out, this often happens with relationships which start young. On the other hand, love at first sight can happen, and I read some evidence recently (but can’t find the link, unfortunately) which implies that young couples who don’t have to sneak around are more likely to stay together, so you never know.
Take no notice of the doom mongers. I wish you and your DD well, whatever the final outcome.