16 Year old Son

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Hi All

Been struggling for a number of years with my son and have gone for counselling with him to see if we could make our home a happier place.

I guess I am the horrible dad who gives out the punishments and my wife simply tells me I am making things worst, she says this in front of my son so my son see's we have a weak link straight away and enjoys the fact my wife does not support my actions.

I guess right now I am wondering what I should do, and I so miss the "father son bond" that we use to have

Guess I should say what the problems are .....
My son is now 16 and everyday "we do battle"

my son calls my wife names something which she has got so use to she doesn t even seem to notice! He calls me a "knob" and says "I hope you get run over" or "I hope you die in a car crash" - to be honest yes it hurts but I can live with the name calling but over the last 6 months it's has become more violent and I have been punched by him on two occasions, he tells me I am a control freak, and I guess the only punishment I am able to do is turn his beloved Internet off, so I can see I am trying to control him but cannot see any other way to bring some kind of discipline into our house

He like many 16 year old boys plays Xbox, over the last few years he has become more and more addicted to it and spends hours and hours on games, most of them are the shooting games and of course we can hear him shouting at his tv screen and he comes down stair and I guess is still in the "angry gamer mood" and any small thing we might say to him we get a load of abuse shouted at us, and so I turn the Internet off, he then gets more and more angry and it all kicks off

The easiest thing for me to do is just turn a blind eye to his behaviour and just get on with my life but he has no life outside his "xbox friends" - they call them "clans" and he has never met any of these people so it is difficult to call them friends, this weekend he spent all weekend on his xbox, other than coming down for meals which on every occasion ended up with us arguing at the table

So am I a control freak by knocking the Internet off, I do wonder if I just shouldn t take the Xbox completely out of the house and see what happens after that, to be honest any advice would be grateful as I know I am not the only one who is having trouble with the Xbox

My son is 16 years old, not a child anymore and I miss him

I have a feisty 18 year old and any extreme rudeness or violence results in her loosing priveledges such as x box or wifi access. Also to remain living here she cannot be abusive or show extreme disrespect. I would let him have the x box when he behaves and on condition he tries harder at college. Any bad behaviour or name calling to parents etc should result in loss of the x box but not for too long. Maybe till the next day. Maybe longer for violence. That way they learn consequences. It is hard though and they may well kick off but in the end it will make them think.

Thank you all for your recent comments

My DS has still not had his Xbox back and the difference in his personality is amazing.

Everything isn t completely rosey but he is so much and I mean so much calmer. He did tell me to go and get run over by a train last night but I didn t react and I said no more about it, and at the weekend my son and I actually spent an hour or so working on some music.

Not sure if I did mention but my son has an iPad so he is still connected to Facebook etc so he isn t completely blocked from his online mates

My wife was always the one to give in to him and she use to tell me to just give him the xbox back but now she is the one who is saying keep it away from him, as she is shocked what a difference we have in him

He has asked for it back about 6 times (so not loads) and is spending his time still in his room but playing guitar or watching movies.

We even went out as a family at the weekend as it was my wife's birthday and we went to the cinema and then to a frankie and bennies .....yes our son was actually out with us in public

Going to see how things go, I know that he will get the Xbox back soon just wondering if his anger etc will return the moment he goes back online, and the strange thing now is I do want him to have his Xbox back, I want him to enjoy his relaxing time it's just the Xbox does seem to bring the worst out of him,

it does seem it's the Xbox live and talking to people he doesn t know that is bringing bad language and so bad behaviour out. I wish he would just play with people he knows but unfortunately he tells me they all suck at the games he play and so he joins clans who are people from all over the place and thus the arguing starts.

The story continues......

i'm so glad things are improving.

one thought is it's hard to know, in a science experiment sense, if it's the xbox absence or the actual imposing of a boundary and sticking to it that has made the difference iyswim.

i suppose one option you have is to allow the xbox back but without internet connection so he can play games solo but not link up with others.

in your situation though i would be in no rush to give it back - especially not for a considerable length in time. if something is working why change it? and if he's not beggging for it back constantly then on some level maybe he too is appreciating having it removed?

well done for not biting at the go away and die type comment teenagers are a joy aren't they? i used to teach 30 at a time and some days even the skin of a rhino would have been worn through to the point of wanting to go drown yourself in a vat of wine and never emerge again lol.

i'm feeling a bit mystified as today my son (usually NEVER wants to be in his room and is always on the computer or under my feet or winding up the dogs) has been in his room all day with his tab. i can hear what's going on and it has been a marathon of one of his minecraft heros youtube videos. generally he doesn't have electronics in his room and the computer is in the hall but i confess it's been lovely to get on with work and not be beseiged with demands and bouncing around me for a day. i can see how people could easily fall into letting this be the norm. however he is just watching stompy whatshisname videos and it's a today he needs to be absorbed in that thing rather than a long standing habit.

i'm not anti screens or games and i 'feel' we've an ok grip on it here as in sure play enjoy, get frustrated sometimes (at which point youll be reminded yes it can be frustrated but no you don't take it out on others and maybe it's time to walk away and come do x, y or z with me or go out and play), have some days where you're absorbed and want nothing else but it's balanced with other days where he doesn't play and wants to be doing other stuff with me or to be out running around. thankfully he's self creating that balance for the most part himself so far and also we'll be off overseas again soon and he'll be more obsessed with the water and running around being ferral again.

i wonder personally if the kids who get totally obsessed and act out in all other areas of life are just unhappy and struggling with other areas of life? depressed or socially struggling kids a few decades ago would have been in their room staring at the wall whereas now they can be playing games and venting their issues in 'virtual' environments and linking up with others who have issues. i don't think the tech is what causes the issue but quite probably where an issue exists the tech provides a constant escape and a space in which the issues are normalised in such a way as to make it harder to challenge and deal with the issues and also disguises them as being because of the xbox rather than the issue being what causes the endless xbox'ing to appeal itms.

i'd stick with the boundaries but also try and think of him as someone who is struggling with real life and who is maybe nto coping with the way that social skills and groupings and identities have moved on in the last year or so of his life (re: since 6th form?). i'd keep the xbox away but see it not as the cure but the opportunity to discover and deal with the real issue.

sorry - very long waffle

btw the neighbours son i talked about up thread, when you actually get him chatting, is totally freaked out by bars, and town and a culture of chatting up girls etc. his mates have all moved on to going out into town and drinking and doing that whole 'thing' and he just doesn't feel comfortable in it at all.

i've suggested he tries different scenes and chatted to him about how when i was young i wasn't really into the 'meat market' business of mainstream town weekends but found alternative scenes, and music orientated places and people who were bigger on being themselves and enjoying that than conforming to a big macho/girly performance. i've said to his dad (who unfortunately is also a bit socially anxious) that he should try taking him to some music festivals or even just gigs in nice alternative venues i know.

it can be hard to find your footing and not being 'into' the exact same things as the people you were hanging out fine with a year ago can be isolating. this may have no bearing whatsoever to your son and your situation so sorry if i've waffled unneccessarily but certainly for the guy i'm talking about the constant gaming was/i connected to his feeling of alienation from his peers and mainstream culture. i do think exposing youngsters to music gigs, different kinds of bars or activities and groups of people, festivals etc can open up their awareness of doorways and different ways of being and that it isn't all conform to your school/college culture or you're a freak.

sorry again for the long waffle.

Hi honeybadger

Thank you for your reply and boy have you got me thinking, is the Xbox just a way for him to deal with his ever changing life,

he isn t interested in going out with friends or girlfriends etc, guess he could simple enjoy the escapism the Xbox games provide, and to be honest I have no problem with that it's the behaviour when he plays the games and gets so in to them, believing he can swear and abuse his family just as he does online.

Oh by the way to make it clear, my son has actually got the Xbox in the room but it is not connected to the Internet so he cannot use Xbox live, he doesn t seem interested in playing off line and only uses the Xbox for watching DVDs

i'd leave it offline then.

i'd also explore finding things he's interested in doing and trying outside of his circle of exposure right now. sounds daft with an older child but with younger home ed kids there's this idea of strewing whereby you just leave things lying around that they can choose to pick up and look at or ignore. so like a local gig guide if he's into music or an events paper or a pgl brochure or whatever you know? bad examples but i'm trying to think of what might grab a teen.

you don't say let's do this or you should do that - you just have stuff around or you watch stuff on telly and they can tune in or ignore. it's like putting opportunities in their periphery.

the fact he's not interested in the mates available to him and the things they're doing these days doesn't mean he doesn't need things to do and friends it maybe just means he needs help to widen his net to find the things and people he will relate to.

and if he turns out to not be academic or up for going to uni then it's not easy to broaden that net without some help and confidence boosting.

Sorry I can't offer Xbox advice , but I wanted to say that in your posts you sound very caring - my ds treats myself and dh like you've described ( I wounderec at first if he had posted on here.) but my ds doesn't own an Xbox ( his chioce) . My ds has been to counselling ( didn't help) and I've sort advice from a few support lines however mums net forum has been the most supportive and helpful.
i don't think you'll damage your relationship by following your instinct you clearly love your ds - you are doing this with his interest and not because you have a need to control.
He's pushing the boundaries and you have to decide which ones to defend, then shield yourself from attack.

Hi, interesting to read your update.

Difficult to know what has caused this change isn't it? Because from an experimental perspective you changed several variables at once....

Remove xbox
Started ignoring his invitations to fight
Put some clear boundaries in place

I've no doubt the Xbox is a contributing factor, the question is how much of a factor?

Did he used to spend hour after hour on it? Sustained by sweets, chocolate and fizzy juice?

I have a 20 yr old who has been a heavy xbox user since about 15, Hero, Assassins Creed, Call of Duty you name it but has only once or twice shown any behavioural changes when he was younger and him and his mates were lol playing in the same room. And that was no different from when they were doing anything together, they would always get a bit hyper in a confined spaces.

However, show him a large glass of coke and he'd bounce off the walls with the sugar rush. I once took him to a restaurant where he had too much and was babbling like he'd been on the booze!

I'm just making the point that there are a large number of environmental factors at play here, simply by not having the Xbox you have changed his daily routine.

But I've no doubt your changed approach to dealing with him has made an enormous difference. From all that you've said, he obviously knows how to behave so you've done a great job in instilling the principles of life in him, and the turnaround has been relatively quick.

I remember when you first posted you were trying to remain calm but had got into a fight again and that set things back a bit so keep persevering. That was without the Xbox so remember clear boundary setting is also what you've changed and don't forget that.

Try thinking that you're now dealing with him as if he were 20 and had left home. Sometimes he won't behave like that but there will be times when he surprises you, and you might find those good times more rewarding than the Rage Against The Teen we can so easily get stuck with.

He'll notice your reaction to that sort of behaviour, even if it is subconscious and that will add to his confidence as a young adult. And it's self confidence that helps them place themselves in the world and stops the need to have to fight to prove you can win a fight.

Hope your Wife is entirely on the same page as you? Did you give her the book to read or is she just following in your footsteps?

Hi summer68
Thank you for your comments, how old is your son and as he doesn t have an Xbox what do your DH and yourself do when your son is behaving badly

I hope when reading this people are not getting the idea that he has changed overnight and I now have a lovely caring child lol. Because although he is so much more calmer and not at all violent now he is still rude uncaring and won t do anything to help around the house..... I know i know I guess he is a teenager but it would be nice if we could have some sort of young adult who would help a little in the house

My DW is great now, I do feel abit guilty about naming myself unsupported but I guess I did feel that way, I have read to her quite a few chapter of the book and she hasn t taken it on board as much as I have but I think she is happy that I am not just jumping down my son throat everytime he does the slightest thing wrong

As I have heard so many times I need to choose my battles

Hesnotamessiah- yes your totally right, it is hard to work out what has helped in my situation but I do think my reaction to my son is helping and his lack of xbox is certainly keeping his anger issues down.

He is watching so many movies at the moment, thank god for sky movies on demand lol

My wife and I have tried to watch a movie with him but if we enter the living room we usually get "oh god are you staying in here" and he gets up and goes to his room

We asked the other night if he wanted to watch "love actually" yes a rom com but with so many stars in it, he thought about it for a moment and then shuffled upstairs.

When I had come back from work last night though he had watched it and said it was alright lol. Anything other than spending time with his parents lol

Last night though we did have an arguement again at the table, think I should have ignored his behaviour a bit more , but of course I didn t and he called me a few names and wished me dead and then went to his room and watched some DVD's

We went to bed about 10 and when we woke up this morning we found him downstairs on the sofa asleep, every light on in the house and the tele left on. I went to work but my wife phoned me and said he refused to take his bedding upstairs and do any tidying of his plate or glass.

So here comes the weekend

We always kept game consoles in the lounge & since we only had 1 tv, they (3 sons) they had to share. As they got older & had game consoles in their rooms thats when the problems started. In the end as a result of in-house fighting & poor school results we banned the Xbox during the week. It was HELL! I could only describe it as weaning them of drugs. But we held strong together (DH & I). The eldest is now at Uni & not interested, my middle boy took x box with him & uses it to keep in touch with friends ( it doesn't control him as he always seems to be out or working) & youngest occasionally uses it. The main reason we had to take control is that we have friends whose highly intelligent son has no life outside of it. It frightened me . He unfortunately left uni , works intermittently, lives at home , no interest other than gaming. But he is a lovely young man now. But witnessing the fallout (just like yourself) gave me the strength, my boys were 16, 15 & 14 when we took control)
It is a universal problem. I think that the counsellors took control of you rather than son. I would try & resume control gently perhaps one night a week, family night ie, cinema ,it helped us. He is still only 16.
My heartfelt wishes to you & yours to give you strength xxx

Right huge apologies, thought I'd got to end of thread but clearly not!!!! So glad to see you took control. You lovely boy will come back, mine did. Keep your strength x

Yes he will come back.

In fact he's never been away.

Bear with it.

I've just had 16. Yr old walking in saying they want to go out to do x, DP saying no and all hell breaking loose.

So i asked DP why they couldn't go there's no real reason other than because... So back up to teen and say yes you can go and now they don't want to.

Think that's book chapter 3 verse 11

I mean it's not like treating it as a bible, just a guide. The principle being to try to understand why your teen is behaving in a certain way and react accordingly.

And while the symptoms may look like the same old thing, teens will try the same old tactics to achieve different aims so you need to watch out for that.

Sometimes, when you don't have the energy, just don't argue and say ok. Save that one for a really extreme demand and be amazed at the result.

A gamble worth taking....

Unsupported, my ds is 17. He likes to watch films but very very rarely with us now!
I hope things are still working out. Be thankful that you know where your ds is every night ( we've had a few nights in the past of not knowing) and that he's keeping away from drugs- so many teens into them. With teens its best , I've found, to look for things to be thankful for- it's the only way to prevent yourself feeling like a failure of a parent , lol.
Hope you have an enjoyable Christmas.

except, and i may be flamed to hell and back for this, for many going out with your parents not knowing where you were and even dabbling in drugs was a formative part of becoming an adult and launching into a separate autonomous life.

not to become a drug addict but to develop a private separate self that made your own decisions, risk assessments and behaviour judgments privately rather than in your parents faces as a source of rebellion and conflict.

there comes an age where you shouldn't always know what they're doing, where they should desire a bit of separation and autonomy and their battles/identity development should be taken on with bigger/wider things than mum and dad.

just read all previous posts from dec 2014

Time for an Update,

I guess as I am back on here you can probably guess things not good again, I gave x box internet back to him I think just before Christmas (after he finished sixth form for the school holidays)

Back ground,
As far as I can remember we did have anger and bad language reappear but thankfully no violence. I also hold my hand up and admit the "picking battles" seemed to have gone out of the window and I guess I have slowly been jumping down his throat when he has been rude to my wife or myself.

But we have been slowly getting through these times, unfortunately his sixth form work has not been good "the teaches don t teach me anything" and we have been called into the school for them to explain that he is falling well behind in his work and he has struggled with his A S's , so my wife and myself are expecting him to be thrown out of sixth form due to him not getting the grades he needs to go through to the second year. To be fair he has hated sixth form, the courses he is doing other than music and drama seem to be of no interest to him.

On a calmer moment we sat him down and found a level 3 diploma in music course which he says he would love to do and hopefully after his interview he will start that in September.

Over the last couple of weeks though violence seems to have come back into our son, we did have an occasion early in the year when he threw two punches at me, they were not strong but I did feel them, I was pleased I didn't react and he ran straight to his room and locked himself inside.

On Sunday morning (Father's Day) I asked my son to do something for me, it would have taken him about twenty minutes, he said no, then went on and said "guess your going to turn my internet off" he then gave me a teenager face gave me a finger sign and shut his door on me, if I was correct and if I had thought about it I would have just left it at that and got on with something else, instead I turned his internet off and we had a slanging match,

at this point I took his Xbox out of his room (here we go again) he then asked if I was going to turn the internet back on, I said no he picked up his accoustic guitar and smashed it on the floor, it broke.
Wife and myself went upstairs, we tried to talk to him (yes I know we should have left it) he talked for a bit, then got very angry and threw a Xbox control at the light switch smashing it, again we tried to talk to him ( again wrong thing to do) he again got angry and threw a iPod speaker amp at a picture on his wall, smashing the glass all over his room.
We did leave it there, my wife did clear it up an hour later my son said nothing and stayed in his room.

My wife did back me all the way this time but I can see how much it hurts my wife to see him so angry so upset

Yesterday I had a phone call from my son after he came back from sixth form asking if I was giving him his Xbox back, I said no after his behaviour of yesterday and he said "ok you will be sorry"

My wife rang me 3 minutes later and said he had squirted washing up liquid over our kitchen floor and poured a bag of flour over it, he then got out broadband router and using a golf club smashed the router into tiny pieces!

When I got home he was in his room and I didn't speak to him, he came down later, I said that this was criminal damage and I would call the police next time, right in front of me He picked up one of my wife's music book and ripped it, I am again amazed I didn't t lose it but told him to get out of the house, I didn't push him, he calmly put his shoes on and walked to the door, he asked his mum if she agreed with dad telling him to get out and she said yes, he hated that and went, he kept coming back every ten mins or so and told me to go and f..k myself etc, after about 50 mins he said he was sorry and said he was cold and wanted to come in

I let him again, he went straight to bed and I never heard anything of him.

My wife and I are really struggling now, yes he naughty and horrible but we are now really concerned that there is something mentally wrong, smashing the router for the Internet is not clever thinking, I can not turn the Internet back on even if I wanted to as he has smashed it up (illogical thinking)
We took him to the doctors last year, the doctor arranged for a man to come and see him at our home, he spent 30 mins with him, said what a lovely boy we have and that was that !

My wife is making appointment at the doctors again for Thursday as we really don t know what is best, teenagers can be horrible I know but we are really going through a tough time and I don't know if it is just him being a teenager or if there is something wrong with him, I looked on the Internet this morning and bipolar seems like something he may have but I have no clue

The worst thing about all this, he came to my work last week on work experience and I have to say everyone complimented me on what a great hardworking son I have, I was really proud and I told him but now I am scared that I am letting him down as he may need medical help and we try but we just get the "he will grow out of it"

bloody hell, poor you!

That is not normal behaviour, is it?

Is there any way he could be on drugs? To feel violently angry is one thing, but to actually smash up things and malicious damage means he is overriding his own boundaries. He should have an internal voice that stops him, iyswim.

This is so worrying, I am sorry I cannot think of anything constructive to say, but just in case you have doubts about this being normal, even naughty-normal, it is not.

Can you speak to the Pastoral care person at the school? The boy needs help.

With the washing up liquid and flour, Did your wife clean it up?

My teen is only 13, but I would have said he had to clean it up himself if he wanted to get back ingot he house. Or is that easier said than done?

By cleaning up his messes (the smashed up stuff in his room too), you are in fact facilitating his behaviour.

Those are behaviours that could (should) have a direct consequence for him. He needs to start cleaning up his own mess.

Hi Baby (thank you for your reply)

I actually phoned his nan up, she only lives five mins away from me as she always says he is such a lovely boy, I was sort of hoping he would feel embarrassed that his nan had seen the results of his actions as he loves his nan so much, my wife left my nan and him to it and my nan got him to clean up the kitchen completely

I kinda know this is not normal, but when you ask for help and the doctor keeps saying its hormones you begin to worry what you can do

I can t see how he can be on drugs, as I say he was with me all day last week working and then home throughout the evening so I can't see that being the case

Unsupported I have read your whole thread and you sound like a wonderful man and you have been pushed to the very limit. I agree with a pp, is there a possibity he may be on drugs.
My dd last year got addicted to the Xbox , she turned nasty , wouldn't shower or go anywhere except school. Last sept I said no Xbox mon to fri and after a couple of weeks she decided herself to disconnect it. I think I will actually break it now in case she decides to take it out again this summer.
I also agree it could be medical with your son. Do you think he would like running , could you go for a jog with him and maybe sign up for a park run. It is a great stress reliever.
My heart is breaking for you and I hope you find the answer .

Hi thank you lovestheleaves,

After posting this update I have been reading other threads, wow it is so difficult to bring up a child.

Running is good, not sure if I could keep up with him though lol I am 48 !

I had mentioned on previous threads that he is very talented in music, wrote a great ed Sheran type song which we recorded together (actually got on well that day) so after his fantastic effort at my work place and me feeling so proud of him I was going to buy him maschine with complete 10, great songwriting software on offer this month for £539.00 which I thought might give him something to consontrate on, but now thinking he may smash that up with a golf club the next time he gets angry

I spoke to a friend last night who is quite high up in the education authority and she said am I sure it isn't drugs, I really don t know, guess parents are always the last to know

Once again thank you for your reply

I also admit that me not "choosing my battles" and jumping straight on every little thing he does wrong has not helped

Think I need to read that book again

unsupported do you have other children

Yes a son of 13, complete opposite.....well at the moment lol. Fingers crossed he stays that way

i think [and my son is only 15 and touch wood, no trouble] that if he damaged anything in the house again i would phone the police.
he needs short, sharp shock.

it would have done you more good to not keep answering the door and not let him back in.
stick the chain on and ignore him.

PLEASE do not buy him ANYTHING more at all.

i