16 Year old Son

[Unsupported1966]

Hi All

Been struggling for a number of years with my son and have gone for counselling with him to see if we could make our home a happier place.

I guess I am the horrible dad who gives out the punishments and my wife simply tells me I am making things worst, she says this in front of my son so my son see's we have a weak link straight away and enjoys the fact my wife does not support my actions.

I guess right now I am wondering what I should do, and I so miss the "father son bond" that we use to have

Guess I should say what the problems are .....
My son is now 16 and everyday "we do battle"

my son calls my wife names something which she has got so use to she doesn t even seem to notice! He calls me a "knob" and says "I hope you get run over" or "I hope you die in a car crash" - to be honest yes it hurts but I can live with the name calling but over the last 6 months it's has become more violent and I have been punched by him on two occasions, he tells me I am a control freak, and I guess the only punishment I am able to do is turn his beloved Internet off, so I can see I am trying to control him but cannot see any other way to bring some kind of discipline into our house

He like many 16 year old boys plays Xbox, over the last few years he has become more and more addicted to it and spends hours and hours on games, most of them are the shooting games and of course we can hear him shouting at his tv screen and he comes down stair and I guess is still in the "angry gamer mood" and any small thing we might say to him we get a load of abuse shouted at us, and so I turn the Internet off, he then gets more and more angry and it all kicks off

The easiest thing for me to do is just turn a blind eye to his behaviour and just get on with my life but he has no life outside his "xbox friends" - they call them "clans" and he has never met any of these people so it is difficult to call them friends, this weekend he spent all weekend on his xbox, other than coming down for meals which on every occasion ended up with us arguing at the table

So am I a control freak by knocking the Internet off, I do wonder if I just shouldn t take the Xbox completely out of the house and see what happens after that, to be honest any advice would be grateful as I know I am not the only one who is having trouble with the Xbox

My son is 16 years old, not a child anymore and I miss him

yes i think i'm going to stick with computers and gadgets just in the common area. it is annoying and a lot less peaceful than having children shut in their rooms but makes sense.

i was thinking of changing this arrangement but won't.

i sometimes wish my son would spend time in his room but actually i don't ever want to be at the stage where he is like a non paying lodger with his own self contained unit cut off from the house. that's called moving out and getting your own place surely? i've seen too many teens who live with all the benefits of having their own place without any of the responsibility or bills.

being able to do whatever you like, stay up all night playing games and chatting online, not have to deal with or consider others etc is part of the motivation of growing up and getting your own place (and earning your own money). when it's laid on a plate at home and you can get away with swearing and shouting at people and not lifting a finger where's the motivation to gain more independence via the responsibility that that takes?

i let my son have a lot of screen time and am not worried about it BUT the other things remain in place - re: bedtimes, only in communal area, turn it down/off if i need him to, manners etc. i don't think the screen in itself or the gaming is the issue - it's htat it tends to come accompanied with masses of shut away in their room time and not having to share space or consider others and being left to get on with it for a peaceful life in the rest of the house itms. i also think the teen issues being discussed aren't about the presence of an xbox but the lack of expectation to be a considerate member of hte household, to pull their weight about the place, to take on some responsibility in the home and/or get a part time job.

Thanks neitherhereorthere, great advice

Unsupported - I suppose taking the xbox away is making him go cold turkey which I am not sure is the best thing but I also understand that in the heat of the moment I would have been very quick to take it away if I had been in your situation. But at the end of the day if he is going to behave like a toddler then he can have his toys taken away.

The deal should be he starts behaving more grown up and he will have the privileges to go with. This should be get on with homework and treating others respectfully (and anything else you feel is important).

I am by no means perfect and neither are the DCs but my DS is getting the grades, we sit and eat meals in a civilised manner and he is fulfilling his other commitments so his spare time is for him to do as he pleases. I can't get them to do anything around the house but am leaving that for the moment (have stopped doing their ironing!!)

Perhaps once he has stopped sulking you can both go out for a chat. Was your wife ok this time about taking the xbox away.

Ds's x box is in the living room and I don't buy him games like COD. He's very good to be honest, I can say 'I'd like the TV back at X o'clock and he usually turns it off before but I do need to give him notice so that he doesn't join a new game 5 minutes before. It can be so easy to sit and swear at the screen as you get involved in what you're playing and with the other players (who also swear like squaddies). If you're pulled back into 'real life' it can take time to adjust. It sounds like the break is being positive though. Is there a recording studio near you? He can make his own songs (takes ages) and the reward could be his own CD, or tickets to see his favourite artist. The more involved in life he gets the better.

Thanks secretsquirel
Thanks for your comments, when you say persuaded him to give the Xbox up for a while, how did you persuade him

Honeybadger- think having the gaming box in a family common room is a good idea, it does stop the hours and hours of your child being locked away in there room.

I do remember though when I was young I did like my own space also, I like it say when he is playing guitar, I don t mind the noise in fact he is rather good I just don t like the mood he seems to get in when playing those shooting games

When he is ready I think I am going to try and talk about what is expected of him as a member of the family, he is my son I love him and I certainly don t want a nosey lodger

Thank you chillysunday

My wife is already questioning taking the Xbox away, but she has agreed that last night was peaceful, he didn t come down for tea as I have said he stayed in his room. But she did back me and not go and "plead" with him to come down so that is good
Guess we are old fashioned but we still like to eat together
I do feel sorry for my wife in that she has cooked a lovely meal, we all come to the table and within a few minutes my son is saying something nasty about the food, I guess I then pipe up and we both end up arguing (son and myself) and the lovely meal is ruined

I agree with the deal.

By the way, anyone reading this who is having troubles with their kids on Xbox and their behaviour changing, I think it went wrong when my son stopped chatting to his friends and started talking to people he didn t know, this can be dangerous as in the news on Monday but also he started to mix with people with maybe less standards and of all ages.

I do like technology but I can t see a way that on Xbox live were I can block who he talks to, I can tell him I only want him to speak to his friends but as he wears headphones I don t really know who he is chatting to.

Later on in the evenings the Americans come online and I understand from a few parents I have asked about this that they do use a certainly language

Anyway once again thank you for replying

Thanks ladycybil

Live music, seeing a live band. Great idea, certainly would help him to get into the real world

Some of the music shops put adverts for band members up on the walls so it may be worth a look around as this could be the key.

Good luck

It may be partly down to the Xbox, but it's not all down to the xbox.

The xbox is your battleground, that's where your son has drawn the line, set himself up for the fight and waited for you to come.

And come you have.

You really need to rush out and buy a copy of 'Get Out of My Life, but first take me and Alex into town'.

NOW

I have read it for maybe 2-3 hours, got half way through it and it's an eye opener. I bought it for 16yr old DD problems but it covers boys just as well. If anything they are simpler to deal with.

Acknowledge your son is growing into an adult, he's no longer a child, and he has an almost uncontrollable urge to assert his independence. But there is also a side of him that the book calls the 'baby', that returns to the nest for comfort.

The book explains why teenagers will just sit around for ages. And why they can't just not go to a party or not be online with their friends, or put their phones down.

Apparently they really do live in one moment - the here and now. They spend a lot of their time waiting for something to happen, but with the added expectation that something really important will happen and they cannot not be a part of it for fear of missing out, or being the only one to miss out.

And consequence mean nothing to them, they have no experience of life to understand anything but that moment they are in. That's all part of growing up.

Written down in front of you it's amazingly clear, but it's impossible to see when you're faced with the angry teenager every day.

It is a case of picking your battles, not to the exclusion of basic human decency. Learning to walk away is going to be one of the hardest things to do, because your teen will come after you physically and verbally.

It is an eye opener, your son will not return to the person he was, but you might start to see the preson he will become.

Good to see your wife is not going against you. United front all the way.

Criticizing the food is his way of getting at you. I can never guarantee everyone liking what's been good but any criticism and they (including DH) are told that there is plenty of stuff to make a sandwich. It might help for you and your wife to think of a replies beforehand that hopefully won't start an argument. It will you stop you saying the first thing that comes into your head.

ladycybil - music shop adverts ...great idea. Will look saturday

Hesnotamessiah- wow that is an eye opener. Thank you

Chillysundays - I know I should pick my battles and I shouldn t just jump down his throat, your right with the idea of have a couple of replies ready for his rudeness

Thank you all

By the way this is the second night of no xbox, he has stayed in his room since coming back from sixth form, made his own tea, which I had to get him downstairs to tidy the kitchen back up, he told me that he "wished I was dead " but has just come down and asked for help in finding a movie he wanted to watch in his room, I did and he returned to his room

The house is certainly a lot quieter - bet the neighbours think we have gone on holiday lol

Hopefully in a few more days he will be willing to chat to me and I think then I will take him out to a quiet pub somewhere and talk to him

I think you've done the right thing getting rid of the Xbox. And in time - a long time, probably - I think he'll agree with you.

Don't give it back. Let him get a job and buy his own if he really wants another one. Till then, I think you did the right thing.

I was going through something similar, albeit without the swearing and violence with my 16 yr old son.

He just seemed to spend his life on the PC, gaming, shouting and being angry.

I was turning the internet off and he got round settings until i took the router to bed with me. It was a constant battle.

In the end I spoke to a friend when I was despairing of him. He seemed obsessed with the 10pm cut off time when the router went away and blamed it on all his anger.

I agreed to let him have it after he asked me to trust him. I was scared he would game all night and his school work would fail.

It's not perfect, he does have late nights, but they're not as excessive as I expected. He has only been late for school once since September. He's only forgotten his lunch once. I've backed right off and let him make his own mistakes and take responsibility for himself.

I do feel it's been a success in our house. He's not suddenly developed a huge social life but it's no worse than before and he is REALLY focussed on school work.

I'm glad I backed off.

I would really recommend reading 'How to talk so teens will listen and listen so teens will talk' by Adele Faber and Elaine Mazlish. That and the earlier book, same but in relation to 'Kids' not 'Teens', have really helped me.

i was just thinking and i think one of the issues is buying kids 18 games - i 'get it' as in the content doesn't seem that bad and you don't see it as harmful and IF it was an offline game that might be true. BUT with things like xbox live it's not just about the game is it? it's about whose attracted to playing it and what culture exists in that game world.

so if don't want your young teen hanging out with adult males who still despite their age like hanging out shooting things on the xbox then you don't buy them those games. the minute you do and let them onto the internet with them think who is playing them - it's (no offense to the non loser gamers) but adult men who sit up all night getting pissed and shooting things on the xbox are probably not the people you want socialising your teenage boys.

Good point honey badger, you are completely correct.

18+ games attract old gamers who then end up playing with younger gamers.

He does have the shoot games, COD so I guess that part of damage has been done, but we are now on day three of cold turkey no xbox, wonder what I will come home to tonight

how about dragging him out of the house to the local pub when you get home and saying right, we need to have a chat?

air all this - spell out reality both in terms of how he's behaving and affecting you at home and what your fears really are for him going forward. spare no punches and spell out the kind of losers who exist in this world and how they end up there. spell out that you want him to have a girlfriend before he's thirty and that you don't want him to end up shut in his bedroom as his youth and freedom passes by. spell out what real life social skills look like and what happens when you don't have them (whether you believe in their inherent importance or not).

i don't know what your background/class/way of talking etc is but make it real i'd say and engage with him as an adult male to a near adult male rather than father role to 'child'.

there's two outcomes really - if he truly gets what bothers you and what you're afraid of for him he can either challenge that and prove to you that you're wrong and don't need to be concerned or he can accept you may be right and work out some things to try to move forward with you.

either way is better than silence and stalemate and moves you onto a more.... 'real' footing together.

if it turns out you don't have friends or outside interests other than work and home it will be harder though obviously - it's easier to show than 'say'.

i think one thing to bear in mind is you are very near the end of a relationship that can be based purely on parent/child enactment. this is your window really for creating a relationship that can survive that and exist meaningfully beyond childhood or not.

and maybe that more adult relationship will be one he can find respect and cooperation in whereas the dad/boy one has conked out and can't be repaired? sorry if i'm not making sense.

Yes great advice, honey badger. - and yes I am in sales so I am a very social people person with a great group of friends round me.

Not going to chat to him in the way you say at this moment in time as I really still think the anger is in him at the moment, he still "wishes I would die in a car crash" at this moment in time but hopefully when the weekend approaches he may want to talk to me.

I am pleased that up till now his anger hasn t turned into throwing things or damaging his bedroom so I hope that is a good sign...... One question for anyone who has gone through living with a teenager

When do they become the nice person, basically how many years can this go on for.

I think I was about 24 when I turned nice person again!!!!

Seriously another one who has a 13 year old with similar issues. I think I'm going to have to take some of the advice above.

sorry but you're an adult. hiding from that anger and waiting silently in the hopes it dissipates rather than dealing with it is hardly a good lesson is it?

that anger needs dealing with not ignoring and hoping it goes away - how are you teaching him to deal with emotion if your response to his emotion is to ignore it and hope it goes away?

honestly this is HOW things get so bad! ignoring, hoping it will go away or be grown out of, not wanting to deal with emotions, etc. frankly if you want to teach your son to be a decent man who deals with things and behaves responsibly then guess how you do that?

HoneyBadger - may be wrong but way I have read it is that the OP isn't only going to ignore it for a few days. To be honest that is what I would probably do myself.

OP - he does need to know that it not acceptable behaviour. He is 16 not 3. If you spent all your time on the xbox, your work suffered and you were constantly telling him that you wish he was dead someone would have been calling social services. Because it is not acceptable behaviour. Perhaps you could try asking him how he would feel if you treated him the same way.

Your question about how long before they become nice. I imagine it may be different for each person. When my daughter was in Y10/11 she was so vile that I hid in the bedroom in the mornings. My DH wouldn't talk to her in case it started an argument - just asking what she wanted in her sandwiches was enough to start it. She is 19 now and lovely (most of the time). She did have a good time in sixth form so I am not sure whether she would have become nicer sooner if she had enjoyed college.

Much as it goes aaginst my instincts I'm going to disagree with you Honeybadger - as you say you

I have been in that camp previously where I thought I had the lead role in 'How to Train Your Teen'.

I'm much farther into that book I mentioned yesterday now and one of the assertions in it is that by the time you think you ought to be setting some strong guidelines....

It's too late.

Your kids pick up your role modelling behaviour much earlier in life. The teenage years is them rebelling against that and trying to separate their independent self from the child that was ruled by you as parents.

It may seem they don't listen to you, or do exactly as you say/suggest, but they do hear you.

Quit the strong man tactics and the storming in and turning of the wifi.

Wait until the morning and just say something like "If you are going to continue to live in this house, the xbox goes off at on school nights" and walk away, DO NOT get involved in an argument, repeat the message unemotively, don't combine it with any 'because' or 'i think' just say it.

Chances are he won't do it, so repeat the next morning and the next, and if possible at tea time. Whenever there is a calm moment, just set the rule out clearly and plainly.

And walk away. Try it for a few days if you can, if it ceases to be a release valve for his anger watch out for that being diverted elsewhere or maybe it's not xbo generated anger at all. It's just general anger at you and his mum, for no reason really.

Seriously, just read the book. I had a 16yr old in screaming hysteria because I said no to her, completely out of proportion. But reading the book I understood my biggest failure was trying to convey that to her. She wasn't interested in the 'no' it was just an opportunity to start a fight, if I'd stayed out of it or neutral and calm, she'd ahev had nothing to fight against.

The xbox and behaviour argument and control tactics is fine for a 6 yr old, it's not for a 16 yr old. He will just go and play xbox somewhere else, and you won't know where he is to add to your woes. Take the xbox away and he'll find some other way to rebel against you. Would you rather be facing a drink and drugs problem?

He's not a child, and he's not an adult. All you can do is set your house rules, make sure he knows he's still loved and appreciated in your home and wait......

PLEASE just buy the book......

What age are the games he is playing?