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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Original poster

DD has lied and gone against wishes with XP's support re: a trip abroad - WWYD?

107 replies

ElizabethFailer · 18/06/2014 16:35

Ok - so DD's school is one of those ones that 'offers' a really expensive trip abroad to NY - basically costing an arm and a leg. DH and I said that we can only do for one what we can do for the other children, of which we have 4, so forking out for what would eventually come to £8000 is not doable (the trip would be £2000 with equipment, so that times 4...). DD and DS1 are from my previous relationship, DS 2 and 3 I had with DH. We also said the money would be far better spent on learning to drive. The 'aim' of this trip is to go to Broadway, go to an art gallery and go shopping. All of which could be done in London for £100 + spending money. Instead, this trip is £1000 + spending money for the week, food etc.
We said for her not to apply, as we wouldn't be able to let her go if she got in.
DH has just found out that she's applied, got in, and her dad is paying for her to go. Bearing in mind that XP doesn't pay his full maintenance proportion as apparently he can't afford it, we're furious that a) she's gone behind our back, applied and lied about it b) he's using the trip as a popularity contest.
There is nothing advantageous about going on this trip other than the kudos of going, and we just think it doesn't teach DD about working for things she wants - it just teaches her to run to her Dad when she disagrees with our decision.
Legally, it's also tricky as he doesn't have LPR, so if he's signed a form to give her permission to go, it's illegal. But WTF do we do now? If I stick to my guns, I'm the bad guy again, saying no, but if I back down and let her go, she's getting her own way after being sneaky about it!?

OP posts:
DottyDooRidesAgain · 18/06/2014 16:43

I don't think you have an option but to refuse to let her go.

Your exh had no right to do this without first consulting you however did he know that you had said she could not go and the reasons why?

You may be the bad guy for a while but your daughter is part of a family and the impact of you paying would be negative towards the family as is the exh inability to pay for his children's upkeep (but paying for her to go) so this is again a negative impact.

I would explain your reasons to exh and to DD I would also offer a compromise such as a similar trip to London with you and a friend if finances allow.

Oh and I would make your DD go in to the school (with you) and retract the attendance letter.

Floggingmolly · 18/06/2014 16:43

You've posted this before, op, haven't you? Why do you imagine you can dictate what your ex spends his money on, because you think it would be better spent on driving lessons? It's not your money!!
And the £8k scenario doesn't hold water if your ex is actually going to finance the trips for your two older dc...

rootypig · 18/06/2014 16:44

Nightmare. You have to let her go, just isn't worth the fall out otherwise. But be clear with her and other DC about what has happened - ie she has gone against your wishes and you are powerless to prevent it. That you are not paying for this, and you won't be paying for any others. Don't let him (or her) force you into any soft contributions, like spending money or clothes. Then tell her to have a nice time and wave her off.

Going back a step, do you think that this could have been prevented if you'd offered her the choice between the trip and learning to drive? Is she old enough to be included in the decision making more? Presumably she is 16 or so. When I did this sort of thing as a kid, it was because I desperately needed more freedom and independence. Stupid, because my parents trusted me less and clamped down more - and repeat. Try to avoid that cycle or you'll demonise each other.

rootypig · 18/06/2014 16:45

Don't let him (or her) force you into any soft contributions

Sorry, to be clearer - when I said him I meant your DD's dad, and her I meant DD.

Xcountry · 18/06/2014 16:49

I cant offer you advice but I can offer a warning, this may turn her against you and drive her towards your XP and end ugly for all involved so whatever you do you need to look at all the consequences, she could still resent you for this in her 30's. Its a big trip, one many would describe as a trip of a lifetime but this could turn out worse than you ever imagined.

Frontier · 18/06/2014 16:51

I think you have to let go if the fact that things need to be fair (meaning the same) for all 4 children. They have different parents so their circumstances are going to be different. One set of paternal gps might leave them a fortune while the others leave it all to the cats' home. How see you going to make that "fair"?

And yes, you can't tell ex how to spend on dcs. How would you react if he did that to you?

DottyDooRidesAgain · 18/06/2014 16:56

Flogging what do you mean? Confused

starfishmummy · 18/06/2014 16:58

So I think you probably have to let her go too but only if he pays up all of the money and spending money. Do you think he will?

I would also be talking to the staff at school to make sure they are aware that he is paying so not to chase you if he doesnt.

Branleuse · 18/06/2014 17:00

just let her go. All children dont have to have exactly the same things.

WhyBeHappyWhenYouCouldBeNormal · 18/06/2014 17:01

your concern was money. Now it's not going to cost you a penny - so why won't you let her go?

Is about control?

CalamitouslyWrong · 18/06/2014 17:01

I also don't think you can make things absolutely equal in a blended family.

Ds1 gets to go on amazing holidays with his dad, but DS2 gets far less impressive holidays with us. I'm not about to start telling exP where he can take DS1 on holiday. Ds1 gets more holidays too, as he comes with us and goes away with his dad too.

On the other hand, DS2 gets to live with both his parents and see them every day; DS1 only sees his dad in the holidays (as we live quite a bit away).

juneau · 18/06/2014 17:01

'Fair' is a difficult concept when you're talking about the DC of two different fathers. You cannot control how or what your ex-P chooses to spend his money on. He can choose to spend £2k on each of his DC and there isn't a damn thing you can do about it. Yes, she's been sneaky, and I would find some way to reprimand her for this, but you're not being required to pay, so I struggle to see what you can do, other than stamping your foot and saying she can't go (i.e. you won't sign the form), which will just make her hate you.

AMumInScotland · 18/06/2014 17:06

I think you need to pursue him for the maintenance he isn't paying, as a priority.

His paying for her to go on a trip is a separate issue really. It's all very well for you to say 'don't apply' but she has two (biological) parents, so you don't automatically get to veto things. And he has chosen to say that she can go.

I'd focus on the fact that you are absolutely not going to have any involvement in the trip, no spending money, no new clothes. If her father wants this trip to happen then it has to be 100% up to him to make it work.

You and DH can choose to be fair with your money and your 4 children, her father paying for this trip does not change that.

Marcipex · 18/06/2014 17:09

I think it would be churlish not to let her go now her father is paying.
Not that I don't agree she has been sneaky, I do agree, but I think it's a lost cause now.

SanityClause · 18/06/2014 17:09

Unless the trip is oversubscribed, even if your DD does pull out, the money may not be refundable.

Your ex is not going to give you the money in maintenance if your DD doesn't go on the trip.

So, by refusing to let her go, what do you achieve?

She wants to go. Maybe she doesn't want driving lessons. Maybe when there is no money for driving lessons, she will discover that she needs to save up for them.

Just let her go. You don't own her. You have to accept that sometimes you just have to let go a bit.

rootypig · 18/06/2014 17:51

I remember your other thread, OP, and I agree with WhyBeHappy that it seems to be about control. My DM went this route with me and it hasn't ended happily. Take a breath.

Original poster
ElizabethFailer · 18/06/2014 17:54

All fair points, really. It's not about control, it's more to do with teaching DD the value of money. DH (quite rightly) has said that this trip would cost more than our annual family holiday is costing for 6 of us, and we can barely afford that, it being the first time since 2007 we'll have gone away. We did point out to her that if she went it would be that OR having the lessons paid for learning to drive; nor is it about dictating what XP can or cannot spend; whether he paid for it or we did, the issue was on the value of going, and we (as her legal guardians) thought it was just about being able to show off that they'd gone to NY. The fact is, is that despite XP not paying his appropriate amount of maintenance, I can't request for him to pay for driving lessons any more than I can stop him from paying for this - although he doesn't have the legal right to allow her to go, without LPR. (This is not something I've withheld, it's something he's never bothered to obtain).
But you're all right - if I stamp my feet and say she can't go, then I'll drive her away even more, and when she turns 16 (soon) she'll likely just go and live at her dad's for the easy life she'll get there.
I think I need to talk to her about why she thought it was ok to go behind my back and plan things with her dad when I'd said no, and I think there needs to be some kind of clarification that this was not ok, and is not the kind of house I want to live in, nor is it the kind of person I expect her to become. We were reasonable enough to 'discuss' NY, but when I pointed out our reasons for saying 'no', she just clammed up and stopped talking about it, saying she hadn't applied and that was that. I just hate the way she's turning into a spoilt brat and there's little I can do about it.

OP posts:
ThinkIveBeenHacked · 18/06/2014 18:04

Well, I dont see it as going behind your back per se.

She asked if she could go, you and dh said no as you couldnt justify the expense.

Her father can pay for it. It is possible that she was talking to him about the trip and he offered to pay for her to go.

Can I ask....if you happen to come into money or get a payrise in the future, will you insist your sons dont go on expensive school trips as their sister wasnt able to?

Just seems an odd way to do things.

rootypig · 18/06/2014 18:05

I think in big families (like mine) and it seems reasonable to say blended families too, scarce resources and large numbers can make people a bit obsessed with the idea of fairness. I don't think it exists really, and if it does, it's definitely not equality in terms of £. I think parents overestimate how much kids care about this too. Kids just want what they want, and they're not the same.

Beware teaching the value of money becoming about the virtues of deprivation, or you will make her obsessed with material things, or it will just become a proxy battle - sounds like it.

I just hate the way she's turning into a spoilt brat and there's little I can do about it.
Your posts radiate a real dislike of your daughter. Don't be too hard on her. She's just a kid who wants to go to NY with all her pals. She's not bad, or good, she's just a kid.

HavanaSlife · 18/06/2014 18:16

In this house it would be we can't afford it, you can ask your dad if he can

lljkk · 18/06/2014 18:18

I would let her go.
Talk is cheap & he hasn't actually stumped up the money, yet. I'd be more worried about him letting her down than my other DC feeling left out.

Original poster
ElizabethFailer · 18/06/2014 18:19

That's very true rootypig, I guess I just dislike the way that she and DS have a real disregard for how hard DH and I work to keep us going - XP lives with his parents, so has no outgoings, and works full-time, whereas we have one income and my part-time income, and 3 disabled people in the house, which ups the cost of living.
My money, CHB, CTC, maintenance and my part-time earnings, all goes on bills. But it still isn't enough to pay for all their clothes, perhaps just a few bits here and there. This September, DD will need new hoodies, DS will need a whole new set of uniform, and of course the other two will need clothes too. When there isn't enough money for clothing, £1000 on a school trip with very little educational value seems quite flagrantly excessive.
I don't resent DD, but I do feel that the XP works on them all the time in oppositional ways - we try to teach them the value of being independent, learning to cook, learning to wash themselves, learning to ride a bike, and he does everything he can to oppose this - they get everything done for them, don't get told to wash, and get driven around everywhere by another adult (XP can't drive), so they're just expecting everyone to do everything for them. And this is all part of that - sorry, don't mean to drip-feed, but just trying to explain my perspective and the background.

I think the way to go is to try and talk to her like an adult, explain how the lying has made me feel, say that I will give my permission to go, but on the understanding that she starts taking more responsibility for herself - gets herself up, gets her own lunch, does her own washing, gets a part-time job, even. Does that sound reasonable?

OP posts:
Viviennemary · 18/06/2014 18:23

I can see why you are furious. But from your DD's point of view she may never forgive you if you don't let her go. You can't really refuse to let her go IMHO. I

theguilttripper · 18/06/2014 18:26

"Your posts radiate a real dislike of your daughter"

Now that is a bizarre and extremely offensive thing to say. OP's post show her concern for her daughter.

theguilttripper · 18/06/2014 18:29

I presume rootypig that you think OP's EXP is showing the true love a parent has for a child by disneying up money for trips like this while pleading poverty when it comes to maintenance, right?