I'm done

[CouthyMow]

DD school refused this morning. First she refused to give DS1 back his iPod that he had kindly lent to her yesterday because hers is broken.

I insisted she give it back. She then decided

Maryz - I think Couthy's DD already has a criminal record for criminal damage (Couthy referred to already paying a fine). But - from memory - I think that if the other crime is her only one - then this would be "spent" pretty quickly and she wouldn't have to disclose it. I think there is some leniency for under 18s if they just have one crime against them and it does not involve a custodial sentence. So I think there could be benefit in trying to get this expunged.

Hi Couthy, I posted the Children's Legal Centre upstream - - Child Law Advice Line (freephone) - 08088 020 008. And the link to their website, which won't copy-n-paste. It's p24 above if you want to see the full post.

As well as undoing the conviction, which is probably a good thing for DD, it would undo any costs they're saying you might be liable for, which would def be good for you!

Couthy I'm going to see my dad this afternoon. He's a criminal QC. He works with children a lot. I'm going to ask his advice on how safe this conviction is and also about the charges/fines. If he has anything useful for you I'll post it later.

I was in the same situation with my DS - i.e. I called the police when he kicked off, he was arrested (tho 2 days later because he ran away) and charged with assault against me and criminal damage, I was not allowed to be the appropriate adult, he had legal advice and accepted a caution, so it did not go to court. There was never any question of me paying any costs. I would have been outraged if there had been. He was 17 not 15, and he has no LD or MH issues.

I think the worse outcome for your DD can be pinned on bad practice and breaches of PACE. This arguably should not even have gone to court - I would be asking (or getting the solicitor to ask) if a caution would not have been a more appropriate 'disposal'. They seem to have kept her in cells and taken her to court at least partly because they couldn't accommodate her elsewhere, and detention cannot legally be used as accommodation. An appropriate adult would have made sure DD understood her options, and could have pushed for accommodation, and pointed out detention was not an acceptable alternative - tho of course AAs do not have legal training, so the AA may not have thought of that. The solicitor should have fought for a caution rather than court, and should have known s/he could not act as AA. You may have grounds for complaint against the solicitor, too.

I think this is a real mess, Couthy - their mess, that you and DD should not suffer for... But I'm not a lawyer... Let us know what the Children's Legal Centre say, if you speak to them.

I will do. Will have to be Monday, dealing with the other 3 DC 's today on my own, and I need a rest tbh! (Well, as much of a rest as you CAN have trying to do housework and look after a 3yo with hyperactivity...)

The only time DD had an 'appropriate adult ' present with her was when she was in interview. At no time before or after did she have an 'appropriate adult' acting for her.

It got to the point where YOTS from my town had to present her at SS - AFTER me getting them to transport her to my town from the town the Court was in. And STILL SS were trying to avoid accommodating her. I'm assuming that AFTER DD was given her referral order, YOTS were tasked with being her 'appropriate adult' until they presented her at SS.

God knows if that's even IN the remit of YOTS?!

I don't know exactly WHEN a child is entitled to an 'appropriate adult' - maybe not after 'disposal' since the role is about making sure s/he understands the legal stuff and has an advocate. CLC will know.

Have you heard from DD today? How's your first weekend without her?

We are speaking on the phone every day. She seemed ok this morning, and I'm ringing her again this evening, and last night she got McDonalds for dinner, which pleased her.

It's quiet! DS1 has done all his homework, and isn't holing himself up in his room, him and DS2 are playing together. DS3 is currently napping, so I'm vegging in bed! By now, I would usually have dealt with at least 9 meltdowns by this point on a Saturday.

(Not enough money, have to be in before her friends, I can't drive so I can't be her taxi service, DS1 breathed near her, she would have been asked to bring her washing down, she would be expected to do her homework before going out, I don't have a house filled with junk food, I can't afford for her to get lunch from Subway, can't buy her any more credit, DS1 dared to walk past her room which he has to do to get down the stairs...)

Like I said, it's been quiet!

I still miss her though - and it feels odd her not being here.

She would normally have been screaming and punching the walls by about 10am. And it doesn't usually stop, unless she goes out. I'm trying to rest, because it will help to be well rested if and when DD does come home.

Maybe if she is getting the help she needs, it might help her to be able to cope with her emotions in a better way?

Glad all is calm, though can imagine it must feel a bit strange and a little strange.

A friend has a son who has Aspergers and ADHD. He is a bit younger thn your DD, has also had violent outbursts similar to ty one your DD had . He know boards weekly at a special school where he gets the help he needs and I have noticed he is much more in control of his emotions. He removes himself if he finds himself getting stressed instead of letting it escalate.

Hopefully the right help for your DD will help her do the same.

I've been trying (and failing) to get her to remove herself, listen to music etc. when she feels tense, but she can't predict it. A lot of the reason for the house move was to get her a much larger room, so she had a bit of 'sanctuary' instead of her old box room where she had to climb on the bed...

Gave up with trying to do her new room up nicely because things would be trashed within 24 hrs, and I can't afford to keep replacing them, haven't started on the other DC's rooms yet as I was constantly replacing basics in DD's room, like bed frame, curtains, curtain poles, shelves (she snapped an entire bookcase into matchsticks during one meltdown, and then did the same to her shoeshelf.)

Thing is, afterwards, she gets upset and angry with HERSELF because she doesn't know why she's broken her own things, and she says she doesn't even know she's doing it at the time.

Still got to fix the wall, my mate is choka block with paid work & his DC's, and can't do it, and I can't face ringing round for quotes for replacing a section of plasterboard. Police estimate the damage at £200 - £300. I can't see when I'll have scraped that together.

Still need to replace DS1's carpet and the stair carpet, as they are the ones that were there when we moved in (they all are, but those two are actually dangerous).

And I have two more banister poles (balustrades?) to replace too. Of a discontinued design, so I'll have to get them specially made again. The last one was £25.

I think trying to get your child to do that as a parent is a huge thing to do and you need a team effort of people trying different strategies. Hopefully the CAHMS assessment will help shed light (finally) on what is going on and there will be a lot more support (fingers very firmly crossed).

The wall is a big pain. Would you be able to stick something over it to cover the damage for now and maybe your friend could do it at a time when he isn't so busy?

I did that in the old house, with the kitchen door that she punched RIGHT THROUGH. Like, stand with the door closed and see people in the hallway right through...

I wound up with a poster in a really 'odd' place on each side of the door (too low down IYSWIM!) for around 6 months, until I HAD to replace the door because we were moving!

I love DD to pieces, but between her and my 3yo DESTRUCTOR, I don't have much of a house left...and what there is is screwed to the ceiling. (LITERALLY in the case of the TV, the stand is screwed in the ceiling. The DVD shelves aren't much lower...)

I'll have a show home one day...

I also think my friend might be a bit fed up of helping me repair the damage she's done to my house...but he's too polite to say so!

Wellll, I think show homes are overrated. Not I will have the chance of finding out as I have too any animals lying around the place.

How big is the hole ? You couldn't bodge it with cardboard and a tub of Wickes plaster or filler could you ? I got quite inventive with holes in the wall after we had to have a rewire and was sort of pleased with the results - in a could have made a worse job kind of way!

I'd already done that in the same place once, the hole is now too big for a polyfilla save. And I'm quite good at that - I've been practicing since DD was 7!

How about just leaving the hole? I know it's a pain to see something that should be fixed going unfixed, but it might be a good reminder to your DD about how not to express her anger.

DS1 punched 3 or 4 holes in walls in his rage, and 2 in ceilings (above stairs, where he could reach). He kicked through one internal door and 1 external one. He destroyed his bed and a set of shelves, and damaged many other bits of furniture. For a year or more he was living in his bedroom with just a mattress on the floor and a couple of half-broken other bits... :( He smashed countless objects, including cups, plates, ornaments and the house phone - when I was trying to call the police. :(

A couple of years on, he occasionally fumes but has not broken anything except a flowerpot, by accident. I blame the combination of hormones, skunk and m-cat that coursed through his veins.

He had no idea either, Couthy. Sometimes he didn't remember any of it at all. It made me understand the phrase 'red mist'.

I ran on adrenaline for so long... I reckon it took me over a year to begin to relax and feel even half-way confident he wouldn't lose his temper again. I don't think I'll ever be 100% sure.

The most important thing I learned about his anger was that it was usually triggered by fear. In his head, he was not 6'2" and strong, but a small child, threatened and fighting for survival. He had this same response when I was cross with him for something: he saw my anger or disapproval as frightening. It was helpful, if initially shocking, to realise that when we argued about something, he was actually as scared as me - and that it didn't cross his mind to realise he was frightening me, any more than it crossed mine to think I was frightening him. I still find it hard to believe, tbh; but I realised I didn't need to believe it to act on it anyway. So I stopped shouting when I was angry, and if I needed to say something but didn't trust myself to stay calm, I even went so far as to text him my complaints. It did (and does) seem to stop arguments escalating.

And I got him a punchbag, too!

I have to fix it, within the next 6 weeks, I live in a HA property and have another inspection then.

So I have to find the money in 6 weeks. Great fun!

How big is the hole, Couthy? Patch plastering is a reasonably easy DIY job, if the hole isn't much bigger than fist sized.

It's about 3/4 times fist sized this time. It really IS beyond polyfilla, it's even beyond the "put a bit of card with a string in the middle, pull the string so the card sits right behind the hole, and polyfilla over the card, and cut the string off when dry" method...

(I have done a LOT of fairly large holes in the last 8 years, this is just beyond any kind of repair like that!)

Never thought I would be discussing hole patching on MN!

DD went to the cinema with her friends tonight, FC picked her up. Will speak to her again after school tomorrow.

Still no news on when the Placement Planning Meeting is going to be - all the SW has told me is that it has to be within 5 working days of DD's placement, which would make it at some point tomorrow- I can (and expect to) be present - but leaving it at this short notice isn't exactly helpful when I have Childcare for D s3 to sort out, and DS3 CAN'T just be left with anyone, due to his allergies & SN's.

Ex is working all week, can't get ANY time off, so that's not going to help.

I'll have to ask my Ex-MIL, as she's the only person I can trust to look after DS3 properly. He can't even go to preschool without FT 1-2-1 that covers lunch club too, so dropping him with just anyone can't happen.

just catching up.....

couthy was your DD remanded for court following day? if so the file would have been done ready for court.
if the police knew she has LD then a form MG2 should have gone on the file....this states what her special needs are.

she would have had an appropriate adult regardless because she is a minor.

find out if an MG2 went in on the file.
find out who the officer in case was and ring them - this should not be hard to find out.
our systems are computerised and the OIC is on there - all anyone has to do is type in the crime number....

but any point of reference would do for a search - even DDs name and date of birth....

who did you tell she has special needs?
if it was officer in case - then no excuse really for not putting it on the file....
that said it may be that the case was handed over to another officer to complete when that officer went off duty.

if nothing has ever been diagnosed then this may be why nothing was put on the file....
as a parent of a SN child you have to be so bloody thorough all the time....trust no one to do the right thing - double check everything.....

for the hole in the wall....
get down to B&Q.....they do a ready mix plaster.(not polyfilla!!) build it up in layers.....if its too big even for that then can you cut the piece of plaster board out and replace it? then plaster over the top?

that plaster is fab.....we had holes in the wall after the electrician had been.....
oh and blown vinyl wall paper covers a multitude of sins! and you can paint it!