Making 16yo move out

[hungryhippos]

Has anyone gone this far? We have spent enough evenings in tears over behaviour, attitude and failure to adhere to house rules. Often sanctions are accepted with a mature attitude but there is no demonstration of an ongoing commitment to do as we ask. We could rent a room near the sixth form college and can afford to do this. Maybe we would all be happier then as DC can do as they wish and we won't be suffering from sleep deprivation, lack of food (feel too sick to eat due to emotional turmoil at times) and the dominance of this issue over every aspect of our lives.

I didn't come on here last night because I was busy with my family, whose needs come first.

We spent two hours talking to DS and and he was, again, reassured of our continued love and support. Not at any stage has he been made to feel unwanted or unwelcome. DP and I do not have conversations like that with or in front of DS. To those who are judging me, consider how desperate you might one day be that to not have your child in your home seems like a workable solution to an overwhelming problem.

We asked DS if he would like to move out and he said no, he wants to stay at home. We agreed that he will try to communicate with us more, to ask for help when he needs it, to tell us more about his everyday life and feelings and anxieties, and to spend more time with the family and less in his room. He accepts our house rules and will continue to try to adhere to them and we agreed to be more relaxed about his slip-ups.

For those that queried those rules, the internet restriction on school nights has enabled both DC to get to sleep at a reasonable hour and get up for school on time instead of being like a zombie rushing out of the door with their eyes barely open and no time even for a pee. DS prefers to bath rather than shower, but has the bath full to the brim. We are on a water meter and would prefer not to pay for 365 such baths, so asked that showers are taken on weekdays and he can relax in his swimming pool bath on weekends. Our mortgage and utility bills cost more than £25k pa and we are careful about energy efficiency. It is not unreasonable that all four of us should be making an effort to keep costs down, rather than only three while one does as he likes.

Thank you to those who have offered constructive and sympathetic comments and support, it is much appreciated.

Sound like a positive step forward Hippos. I'm glad.

Ironically, I'd love my DS to swap from showers to baths! He takes 25 minute showers every day, and (I know from trying) it takes 12-15 to fill our bath with the shower. Luckily we're not on a metre!

It is not unreasonable for you to ask your DS to be thoughtful too. Unfortunately, teenagers often are not reasonable, and you cannot make them be reasonable. If you keep trying, you will drive yourself mad. It is better for everyone, IMO, if you learn not to 'sweat the small stuff' and detach a bit. :)

I hope last night's chat works. If you find your DS 'slipping up' - which he will I bet, being human and a teenager to boot! - maybe it will help to remind yourself that you could afford to set him up in his own flat, where he could decide to have three swimming pool baths each day - so you are probably saving money having him at home only bathing once a day! That kind of 'teenage logic' is bonkers, obviously, but I do find it helps to use it humorously sometimes, and it's definitely better than stress, angst and crying. :)

It must be a shock to have him living with you after boarding.

Wow Cutted, homeless and still going to school. That's impressive. Bloody well done, young you.

so no answers to any questions then. not surprised.

OP, it seems this is a connection problem, not a disobedience problem. He is studying well and doesn't appear to be in any trouble outside of the house (is that right?). So, they are the main priorities, he is keeping himself on track.

I think if you work on connecting with him first, he will want to maintain a relationship with you, and want to please and keep you onside. It's clear he wants to stay at home. I would drop all of the 'rules' to be honest until I had got the connection back in place. He is fighting against being controlled (I would certainly prefer my child do that when he leaves home rather than be so used to cowering down to rules that they are bullied by partners, bosses, colleagues). If you remove that control, and let him breathe a little, you may find he becomes more naturally cooperative as your relationship improves and he can start seeing the reason behind why it's important to have some some of reasonable structure. I would say you don't have much more time to improve that connection because I'm sure he will be leaving home under his own steam in the next few years anyway. I would really make that the priority. Good luck to you.

Cutteduppear, goodness, I cannot believe you had to go through that. I'm so sorry. You should never have had to experience that.

OP- I can sort of feel what you feel

suddenly (even without boarding school) you have a huge adult size creature lumbering around the house leaving a trail of mess in their wake

they LOOK like an adult, and so you might therefore assume that you can suggest adult-type things to them, like moving out, in a rational manner

but you can't, you can't

underneath they don't feel like adults; they feel like little kids

(my 16yo sounds similar to yours in a lot of respects. I recently discovered he goes to bed with a hot water bottle in a daft cover, and a bear. He usually hides them in the daytime, but sometimes he forgets)

That's an important point springheeledjack.

Can't believe op actually asked her ds if he wanted to move out, that is so sad.

OP when people suggested you could try to change they meant something a bit more profound than just your user name.

Springheeled is right....teens are toddlers in a big body, plus hormones and a better (choice) vocabulary to hurt you with.

They are getting ready to fly the nest but aren't ready yet. They teeter towards the edge (being all mature and grown up one day) then run back to their security the next day (being babyish, expecting food/money/lifts at the drop of a hat).

Jolly exhausting. But also normal.

Teebee and Flow4, thanks for your kind comments. I should make it clear, I never had to spend a night on the streets as I networked madly to get enough sleepovers to get me through the week without my friends' parents getting suspicious. However it was a close thing.

OP I'm not sure if your new guidelines with your DS are really achievable - for example getting him to spend less time in his room. Without a reason to come out, most teenagers won't surface for weeks.
Perhaps you need to arrange activities that you can all do together to make your company more appealing.

In my family we have a film night at home every now and again, with popcorn. I can't imagine mine wanting to spend time with me otherwise.

Does sound normal behaviour to me too. Doesn't help if its getting you down though.

Have you thought of relaxing the rules? We have asked our 16 yr old to be off the Internet at 10 and lights off by 1030 school nights but she has some slack at weekends. We felt it important to ask, rather than tell, and to let her make the decision whether she would force us to turn the router off. The up side of the sleep thing is she gets a lift to school which we could easily stop, and she's just more pleasant after a good sleep! And generally happier.

The bath thing I can understand if you have the one bathroom, are on a budget or a water meter or something but if there is a fair justification then explain it to him? If not, seems a bit of overkill. If you can relax the rule maybe you can work a situation out of it which makes you the good guy? Maybe take a bath mid week so he notices, when he screams its not fair, just say yes, he's right and from now on he can have a bath any time too. Though he might have to fight you for it :-)

Offer him your old bath water like you would a small child and watch his face just for a laugh!.

Don't do it, he's too young; you might feel momentary relief but the worries will be far worse and the stress and anxiety of keeping him safely in his own place (where he could quite fairly ignore your house rules) will be much more strenuous. I can't see it would do your relationship in the long term any good at all....

He seems like a normal teenager to me, I have two and both have mental health problems.
DD1 is quite extreme and the tension some days is unbelievable in our house. She has zero patience with her much younger siblings and an attitude problem which is off the scales. Without her in the house it is quieter and calmer but I am dreading the day when she goes to Uni. I will miss her terribly and worry constantly. She needs the love and support from family and friends to help her MH problems. Living on her own could make them worse.

Can I ask why his teenage behaviour is leaving the rest of you in tears each night? I can see how siblings fight so that is the other dc upset but not making a bed or having a bath shouldn't drive your parents to tears

Hungryhippos, you came here for help and instead a lot of posters have had a go at you, which seems very harsh. As someone who posted with a not dissimilar problem a few days ago, I know how anguished you must feel, and I note that your original post referred to 'behaviour, attitude and failure to adhere to house rules' - it's a shame that so many people have picked up on the bit about house rules rather than behaviour and attitude.
And frankly, it's up to you what your rules are - whatever other people might think of the rules, they don't sound particularly difficult to adhere to so I can see why you might be annoyed when they're broken.
Since I'm going through a similar situation, all I can suggest is backing right off for a while, accepting that he's going to be hell to live with for the foreseeable future but believing that as long as you're calm and consistent it will work out okay in the end. Fwiw, I have already failed miserably on the calm and consistent bit but I will keep trying.
Getting out old toddler photos, remembering how I used to feel, and reminding myself that he's still the same person has helped a bit at times too.

To be fair cinnamontoast the help op was asking for was whether she could force her ds - a vulnerable self-harming 16 year-old - to move out so it's only to be expected if the reaction was harsh.

Have to say I don't understand the logic whereby it's too expensive for the ds to have regular baths but op is prepared to pay out rent for him

Dave, there's a difference between paying out for something you feel might help improve things and something you feel is wasteful.
And no, I don't think he should move into a flat on his own - he's 16! But I think it's a measure of the OP's unhappiness that she's thinking this way.
I'm not sure that everyone posting on here understands how disruptive some teenagers can be to live with. They are like toddlers - irrational, mood swings, tantrums, totally self-centred, no sense of what's acceptable - but in an adult body and with an adult vocabulary to taunt us. Of COURSE we still love them, but they are difficult to love and, at times, downright intimidating.

Can I ask why his teenage behaviour is leaving the rest of you in tears each night? I can see how siblings fight so that is the other dc upset but not making a bed or having a bath shouldn't drive your parents to tears

debs, I never said it did. I'm talking about a year of difficulty with several episodes. I have never cried over a failure to make his bed (in fact I can no longer remember the last time he didn't make it) or him having a bath. I have cried due to my daughter's unhappiness and her unwillingness to bring friends round due to his behaviour. I cried when I found out the extent of his self harm. I struggle with his despair and his dad's failure to play a meaningful part in the lives of BOTH of his children, instead of washing his hands of the child who presents a challenge.

dave I did not ask whether I could force him to move out, but whether anyone else had taken that step, if you reread the post with more care.

I have not changed my position - I believe that it is fundamentally wrong to force a child to leave their home before adulthood, whether or not they have mental health issues.

cinnamontoast thank you for your insight.

That's pretty disingenuous OP - why ask the question if you think such a step would be fundamentally wrong?

Anyway, i'm glad to hear that is your position.

But thats the thing, you havent said anything other than bed making, leaving lights on, not cleaning up.

What behaviour is making your dd so unhappy and unable to bring friends home?

I don't think it's disingenuous, Dave. When you're feeling desperate, you consider all sorts of options, even ones that seem ridiculous or impractical. When my DS was at his worst, at about the same age, I spent a lot of time wondering whether I could arrange to drug or kidnap him and get him on plane to somewhere far away like India, with just a bit of money, so I could get a break and he could have a character-building journey back! I also very seriously considered throwing him out. Funnily enough, a lot of people then told me I should...

The thing is OP you are treating him slightly as though you are his personnel department. Your relationship means 2 hour pep talks / agreements to change behaviour won't make a difference - a change in his attitude will only happen if you allow for an environment that will enable it. That means letting him be himself but perhaps exposing him to the truth about the real world of work, money, parenting and responsibility.

I am in two minds about this as I am pro independence and won't mollycoddle my own children, but he is too young for this now and you are just going to have to make it work.

Next time don't talk to him, spend time with him doing something and just listen and allow you both to relax with each other. At this age children push you away at the same time as needing you desperately.

I think, OP, that you are getting little sympathy because aside from the house rules business, you haven't detailed the specific behaviour that is bringing you to this point.

You have mentioned the self harm, which would only serve to make most parents hold their children a bit closer, not push them away.

Aside from that, all you have said is that he breaks your house rules and your dd doesn't like him.
Can you add more detail?

Hungryhippos, I think the problem posters have had has mainly been because of communication problems. You know what it is about your son's behaviour that upsets the whole family so much, but we don't. You haven't told us what he does e.g. when your dd brings her friends round, so we have been seizing on the details that you have provided, like the unmade bed (which didn't seem to warrant such strong emotions) and the self harming (which didn't seem a reason to want him out unprotected in the outside world).

The more you post the more it becomes clear that this isn't what it is all about, that there is a far more serious underlying problem than the usual teen disobedience and sloppiness. Maybe it is difficult for you to put into words, maybe you feel overwhelmed by it. But also difficult for us to respond to if we don't really know what is going on.

Get social services involved they can help with the situation. If you have money then pay for family counselling. Don't kick out a child.