school refusal and simply does as he pleases

[loopyloo123]

Same old same old. For two years we had problems with school attendance, in the end we moved my 14 year old to a private college for his GCSE year. This was his request and decision to take the place. It has been a huge sacrifice for us, but we felt we had no option, it simply wasn't working out for him at his academy. Two weeks into term and all seemed well, we began to breathe again. Now it's week 4 and he's already missed three different days. For no reason - can't get up, can't be bothered, doesn't see the point. I've heard it all for the past two years. My fears are confirmed: not a problem with the school or the teachers or the work. It's just him. This is his pattern. If he doesn't feel like doing something, he simply doesn't do it. He looks for someone to blame all the time - in this case it's his parents for sending him to 'an inferior' school all those years ago (he was fine for years 7 - 8, and it's not a terrible school at all). He is simply playing us. It's difficult to confiscate stuff because he bought all his gadgets himself. He is bright and works hard when he wants to. He just doesn't want to very often. He is happy at this new place, and when he's in a good mood, gets up happily and goes off to school. I feel completely hurt and let down. Should I stand back and just let him blow this one chance he has now of turning his school life around? Not sure I can stop it anymore.

he reacts by simply putting up his hand and stopping me. If I continue he will get very angry. The therapist I have been seeing instead of him! says that shows that he knows what I am going to say and finds it stressful. While I am sure that's true, it doesn't help! Yes cory, we have had all those conversations, over and over and over. Boarding school is NOT an option - he simply wouldn't go!! If he doesn't leave the house to go on the tube to his school half an hour away, what would make him get in a car and be driven to a boarding school! My own family I think finds my situation incomprehensible. They say, but just make him go!! As if I don't try!! Oh dear.

loopy, people who haven't been in this situation just d

Oops, sorry!

People who haven't been in this situation just don't get it. I don't really blame them: I didn't myself believe in the extent of my powerlessness, and kept trying everything I could think of for almost two years.

I grounded him: he climbed out the window. I stopped his allowance: he did without, scrounged off friends and stole. He used his dinner money and fares so I stopped that cash too: he stopped going to college. I stopped all trips and treats: he did without. I withdrew all 'services' like laundry: he learned to do it himself and made do with being dirtier. I blocked the internet and made working at home impossible for myself: he went to friends' houses. I explained: he walked away. I blocked his mobile phone: he refused to communicate with me and stayed away for days... I talked and talked and talked...

Afaic, the talking was the only thing that 'worked'. I lost control but I didn't lose influence. And now, 2-3 years later, he is turning back into a decent human being...

For us, the situation was slightly different: dd had no problems accepting the values we were trying to promote, it was just that she couldn't handle the implementation.

For her, just talking was never going to do it: her levels of anxiety were such that she needed medication to take the edge off it before any talk could penetrate the fog. And then she needed to be taught how to take control over her own situation.

I think flow and I have one thing in common though: there were no quick fixes. What was needed was a parent (or two) to hang in there, to never give up, to just be there.

Yup. :) It's why cory and I, and others like us, keep saying "Detach, detach, and look after yourself!" ... As difficult as it is to accept, sometimes there is no simple solution, and what it needs is time. But in the meantime, you need to survive.

Yes, I know you are right. It's how to rise above this and not let it drag the rest of the family down that is very difficult. And hard to be upbeat when surrounded by such negativity. I want him to know we are there for him but at the same time, that we don't sanction what he's doing to himself and jeopardising his future - and yes, making family life miserable for the rest of us.

You have huge sympathy from me Loopy. We have a similar situation with ds, 13 who suffers from anxiety. It is so stressful to live with. I wake up every morning and my first thought is what kind of mood will he be in today and how will it affect the rest of the family. Thanks for starting this thread though, lots of really interesting stuff which I am now going to read properly

Hi Loopy, I do know what you mean about how hard can be to have a conversation about anything important. My DS snarls at me and I usually decide it’s wiser to back off (my DS can get aggressive). (This is one of the benefits of my DS having a formal diagnosis – in a way it’s scary but at least it’s made it much easier for me not to think “he’s being rude, this is unacceptable, I must do something” and to think instead “well, this is a conversation we just can’t have, he’s not up to it”. )

I try to think “DS is doing well for a teenager with that level of anxiety (and with his other problems too )” . In some ways he is very able and I try not worry about all the things he could do or should do if he didn’t have those anxieties, problems etc. I want him to do as much as he can do, and I try to make sure that he knows I appreciate the effort he sometimes has to make even to do that much. It’s a difficult balance because I don’t want to give up on him but trying to get him to do too much only makes him dig in even worse. And sometimes it’s hard to accept how little he can do in certain ways. There are things he can/will do (like going to a one-to-one swimming lesson and even taking himself off to the pool alone once a week to practice!) and things he can’t/wont (like joining a swimming club or group class) but although it would be better for him to be part of a group, I tell myself well at least he gets the exercise. “Ordinary” expectations don’t always work.

And I am very glad you are getting some support for yourself. When my DS first started to have problems I saw a counsellor and that helped a lot. My counsellor never gave me any direct advice at all, she freely admitted to knowing nothing about the kind of problems my DS was having except for what I told her, but just having someone to support my own feelings and judgments made things better for all of us.

One thing I had to overcome was that I felt so guilty about having the child who was not living up to expectation that I felt almost as if it was wrong to enjoy our time together; as if somehow the two of us ought to be doing penance all the time and be miserable together. As if every time we enjoyed a laugh or a day out together was somehow proof that I ought to be able to manage the other stuff, and as if the only way to prove that I couldn't manage the other stuff was not to have the good times either. I had to clamp down on that feeling very hard because I knew it couldn't possibly be the right way forward. And it wasn't. It was the things we still had together, the good things dd could still enjoy, the good feelings we still had about each other that helped us to climb out of that dark hole. (that and the fluoxetine)

Fortunately, both CAHMS and the school were very clear on this subject: that the important thing was to get dd functioning and that it didn't much matter which end you started: if she could manage a trip to the theatre but not a GCSE in history, then the trip to the theatre was where we had to start; it was still better than lying in bed with the duvet over your head. I had to learn not to be too puritanical about the whole thing.

I never really put that guilty feeling into words cory but you’ve summed it up beautifully!

You really have, cory! Thanks!

Loopy
your thread makes painful reading:
You are giving your DS all your power! He bullies you and you take it.

It's good you are seeing a therapist because I think you need to seriously work on owning your power. But is this therapist actually doing this? Are getting empowered there? My feeling is maybe not.

Now here is my 2 pennies: If this was my son this is what I would do:

• strip his entire room - completely empty it out apart from the barest necessities.
• explain that he will get one piece of his things back for each day he was in school.
• the last piece he should be getting back is his laptop and and his bankcard. Explain to him that his business would be stopped indefinitely, if he falls back into his old ways.
• Only support his business if it is ethical, otherwise, keep the bankcard

• Explain to him that if he needs psychological help you will take him anywhere where he can find help and support him in every way.

• Explain to him that you are doing all this out of love, so that he won't say at the age of 25, 'mum, I wished you would have made go to school and stopped me doing this dodgy business.'

I know my response is completely different than all the others who have posted here but I do think, this is where the solution lies.

Have you done this Pallka?
Did it work?

My DS is exactly as Loopys. We have a very good relationship, we talk about all sorts of things. He's come across drugs with friends at school; told me he couldn't copy his pals because he knew it would hurt me. So I feel I still have 'power' or actually his respect, but it's this one thing of attending school that he feels he just cannot do.

I think if I stripped his room took away his little business and took the hard line, he would loose his pleasure in life and be in a totally depressive state. I really fear I will loose the bit of him that is happy, polite pleasant to be around, sometimes it's only small but it is there. He hates school.
I have managed to force him in on a few occasions and it has not ended well.

If this method has been tried and it worked, I'll give it a go.
(Although it's not my style really)

I am sure if the ds is merely refusing to go to school to be obnoxious or because he is lazy the punitive approach might work fine. If he is refusing because of an underlying anxiety problem it could easily drive him to self harming or suicide. If he is refusing because of depression it would merely drive him deeper into depression. I wouldn't advise anyone to try this approach unless they are sure.

Palika, I have no means of knowing what the OP's ds's situation is. But equally I suspect you have no experience of living with a child who is school refusing from anxiety or depression.

Yes, it did feel at times as if dd was bullying me. What actually happened of course was that her anxiety was bullying the two of us. When I tried to punish her out of being anxious, she got more anxious. All it did was to provide temporary relief for my feelings of anger - and make the actual situation ten times worse. Eventually I realised that my anger was valid but directed against the wrong goal. It was the anxiety I was angry with, not dd; that energy needed to be directed to finding a way of getting rid of the anxiety.

And incidentally, if the OP does intend to seek CAHMS advice, there is no point in going through the whole procedure of stripping the room and confiscating all possessions: they will only tell her to give them back and she will have lost authority.

Chinup and cory,

no I have not done it with school refusal because my son always went. But I have used the general strategy for all his other refusals - and there were many. He was afraid of many things and did not want to do it - so I encouraged him to 'conquer his fears' and sometimes I just forced him. I know from experience that if fears are faced they usually go away - and they did with my DS

I believe that if a child refuses to go to school and is allowed to do so for a long time it will be difficult to reverse this. There is a long history where the child 'dealt' with a problem - anxiety, depression or whatever it is - in this wrong way.

Simply by giving my advice and rigidly implementing it, this entire history can not be reversed and that is of course where the problem lies. So, I am not saying, just do this and all will be good. There are probably a multitude of other problems in the teenager and the parent-teen relationship that haven't been addressed for a very long time.

I just felt so upset when I read this thread that I felt I wanted at least outline where I felt the solution lies. Never in a million years did I think the OP would just do that. (which of course she hasn't - the thread virtually stopped once I put my comment on)

I also want to say that one should not implement these draconic steps with a grim face. it should all be talked about with the teen and mutually agreed. But once agreed it should be implemented - come what may.

If a teen comes to a parent and says - I have this anxiety - then of course there is more room for finding help - with a psychologist etc or school counsellor. Maybe one could even consider home schooling etc.

if your son has all this spare money, i would charge him for every day he refused to go to school. what would happen if you did that?

Not saying you are wrong, Palika, just saying that it depends on where the real problem lies.

I did what you said, thought I could get dd to face her fears by making her go to school. Kindly and sympathetically, just insisting that this had to be done. I thought I was being successful. Until the morning she tried to slit her wrists...

In her case, forcing her to face her fears over a long period did not make them go away: it exhausted her and drove her into a breakdown that took years to get over.

The sad thing was that she really wanted to attend school, so home schooling was never much of an option, but her anxieties were more than she could manage without medical help. She just couldn't vocalise them: it took several months, if not years, of treatment before she could look at herself and analyse that this is how I react, it is irrational but it is part of me, this is what I can do to manage it.

Of course there is no knowing what might or might not have worked with the OPs ds at the outset of his problems. Just saying that's how it was for us.

sorry should have said: "with the OP's or Chinup's ds"

I wonder if the different angles we come at these problems from might not partly be to do with the kind of parent we feel ourselves to be and the problems we have encountered in being those parents.

Iirc, Palika, you said somewhere that you feel your natural inclination to be very laidback and friendly and that you had come to realise that this wasn't always what your son actually needed, that he needed a firmer approach than what came naturally to you.

I have always felt goodnatured authoritativeness was my forte: I prided myself on my calm, unflappable discipline and assumed that there wouldn't be a problem that I couldn't solve by simply making dd obey me. Dd's inclination has been to lean on me very heavily and want me to sort her out. It hasn't worked. I have had to learn to step back, to relinquish control, to realise that I cannot always solve other people's problems even if I did once push them out of my vagina.

If I am right, we have both felt that the solution was to partly divest ourselves of our natural inclinations and do something different because that turned out to be right for our child. And it is then easy to think that this solution would be right for everybody else. It probably depends on where they are coming from and where their child is coming from.

Cory
I am so sorry to hear about this story - it must have been awful.
But you are making some really good points here: I envy you your confident authority. When I am strict I think 'oh dear, I am the Iron Lady again'.
Yet my DH and DS both encourage me to be like this...I'd much rather like to be happy, humourous and not take everything so seriously...but if I did that, my DS would take over the house and rule the roost and my DH would sink into depression and 'don't know'. They both need me to kick them up the a.... frequently. And I hate doing this.
So, what I present here on the board is what I and my DH have to learn most strongly. We are both taken aback by how much 'parenting' our only and much loved and cared for DS needs. Both our own upbringings were deficient in many (but very different) ways and by doing it differently and better we thought we would have an easy ride...how wrong we were...

...and to finish the post:

my own forte is to be therapeutic and 'solve problems'. I always thought that I can solve any of DS problems that way. And...I have solved a lot of his problems, because he was bordering on special needs and all that is gone now.

If my DS would refuse to go to school I would try the therapeutic/helping approach extensively...of course I would. It is always my first line of approach.

However, I cannot use this approach for his rudeness, lying, aggression, lazyness and arrogance...all of which my DS has in abundance, too.

My general impression on this board is that most mums veer into my direction and need to learn to be a bit tougher. I might be wrong but that is my general impression.

actually the reason I have not replied for two weeks is that things were going so well. Fantastic parents' eve - wonderful comments we have NEVER heard before in all his years, excellent grades and things seemed to be on the up. Alas! One can never say never, last two days we are back again ... and it IS anxiety and panic brought about by not performing well in a subject and getting into trouble about it, not wanting to face up to the detention and now facing more trouble (he thinks) because of that. I have thought about stripping his room etc Palika but really, I don't see that it's going to make him go to school, he isn't NOT going because he wants to skive. He's deeply anxious and I think tormented about his own lack of backbone, lack of braveness really in the face of adversity. I feel, in my best moments (not always this positive, I have to say) that he's proved that things can get better, yes, they slip back again, but we have to keep in mind the good bits, slowly slowly, perhaps the good periods will become longer and longer. He is slow to learn things, perhaps this is a difficult one for him to master. Punishing him for something he can't control and something that is a deep issue for him I just don't see as logical.

Loopy
I am glad to hear things have got better!
Please do not strip his room if you know that this is all about anxiety - take him to a good psychologist. Anxiety can be treated with breathing exercises - hopefully you find someone who can help your DS quickly.

Hi loopy, nice to hear from you and nice to hear your DS had such a good two weeks. And when there is a problem, you have a clearer idea of what’s causing it. It sounds as if you are making great progress in the right direction though it’s probably still going to be ups-and-downs.

What he really needs is a psychologist. He is totally unable to manage his feelings, not sure he can even name them. Impossible to talk to as he refuses to discuss it and unfortunately, he WILL NOT see anyone professionally. So that's where we come unstuck, and are in fact, stuck in this cycle of yes, good periods, but always followed by another lapse. And every time there is a lapse I worry that this is the one that will cause him to throw in the towel completely. What if this falling out with his teacher means he refuses to set foot back there ever? Although we had almost three full weeks without any problems, we are SO not out of the woods. And it gets more and more exhausting I think when you get your hopes up and then they are dashed again by the same old pattern. So I am feeling very low at the moment, angry with him but also sad because there's more to play here than wilfulness, and there's a lot at stake now. Oh well. Thanks for checking back in!