school refusal and simply does as he pleases

[loopyloo123]

Same old same old. For two years we had problems with school attendance, in the end we moved my 14 year old to a private college for his GCSE year. This was his request and decision to take the place. It has been a huge sacrifice for us, but we felt we had no option, it simply wasn't working out for him at his academy. Two weeks into term and all seemed well, we began to breathe again. Now it's week 4 and he's already missed three different days. For no reason - can't get up, can't be bothered, doesn't see the point. I've heard it all for the past two years. My fears are confirmed: not a problem with the school or the teachers or the work. It's just him. This is his pattern. If he doesn't feel like doing something, he simply doesn't do it. He looks for someone to blame all the time - in this case it's his parents for sending him to 'an inferior' school all those years ago (he was fine for years 7 - 8, and it's not a terrible school at all). He is simply playing us. It's difficult to confiscate stuff because he bought all his gadgets himself. He is bright and works hard when he wants to. He just doesn't want to very often. He is happy at this new place, and when he's in a good mood, gets up happily and goes off to school. I feel completely hurt and let down. Should I stand back and just let him blow this one chance he has now of turning his school life around? Not sure I can stop it anymore.

I get what you are saying flow. I just don't know how to go about it. I'm sure the school will have ideas, this is the type of student they appeal to and have loads of experience with, kids who don't fit into the usual type of schools. But if he doesn't actually go, how will they talk to him.

I can really relate to what you are saying but I would try and take a step back and see what happens, easy to say, hard to do.Give him the responsability of getting up and out of the house himself without you saying a word about time etc.. and see what happens. If he does not want to go to school then he wont go, even if you drop him at the school gate. We home schooled for a year to get A levels which was very stressful for all of us but it got us the results we wanted.

But how did you home school? I simply can't see it working for me, for a full set of GCSEs. He has high hopes - wants to go to uni! But can't see what needs to be done in order to get there. Refuses to look into the future. He's extremely immature, young for his year.

Sorry, cross-post. I wasn't ignoring your latest posts, I've only just seen them.

OK, I hear what you're saying about his business being perhaps a bit dodgy, and about your fears of him turning into 'the man in his underpants'. I understand that concern. Incidentally, your son might too, if you put it to him...

At the heart of your problem is this: you are confronted head on by the reality of life with strong-minded teenager: you simply cannot make him do what you want. It is infuriating - and speaking personally I also found it deeply upsetting that my son didn't seem to want anything I valued or offered - but it's still true.

I now think of it as a sort of 'accident of timing', which I then mis-handled. A lot of my son's early 'difficult' behaviour would not have caused me problems or upset if he'd been 18 or 19 rather than 14 or 15, and especially if I hadn't had to try to make him go to school. But he was, and I did, and we entered into about 3 nightmare years during which I tried to make him do things he didn't want to do, and he fought me, and I sanctioned him, and he got furiously angry, and more and more disengaged, and our relationship was nearly broken.

I can see your son is similarly 'out of step'. I wonder how much of his behaviour you'd still be trying to stop if he were 18 or 19? If the answer is 'not much', then my hindsight says drop those fights, and concentrate your efforts on the stuff you'd worry about whatever his age...

I know some people will say that is "letting him win", but you however infuriating that is, you can't win this one. And you're using up energy you could spend on positive aspects of your relationship.

And GCSEs, honestly, he can get whenever he needs. It's hard for those of us who have aspirations for our kids to let these go... But there are many different routes to success. :)

I also know that my son stopped being an arse as soon as I stopped fighting him. And now he's applying for university, back following almost exactly the path I imagined for him before all the trouble started... :)

I would like to be able to step back, really I would. My husband and I are so battle weary now that we feel we just can't give much any more anyway. But I need to know what lies ahead then. The longer he stays away, the more work he misses, the more anxious he will be about going back. OK, it's only been two days this week, but if he does the same tomorrow? A day here and there I can accept, this may be the pattern. But if it sets in as a daily thing ... And what about legally? I have already been threatened by the council at his old school. Even if this school doesn't kick him out and I willingly throw 16K down the toilet ... what does he do with himself all day? Or do I just sit it out and hope he will come to his senses before it's too late? yes, if he was 18, I wouldn't worry as much, although I would hope he had some basic qualifications. Is he just going to sit around at home with me till he's 25? The idea fills me with horror.

Yes, I totally understand that. It was the fear that got me, too. Fear that he'd never amount to anything; fear that he'd be at home forever... And if I'm honest, fear that people would judge me a bad parent, too, on account of his failures. :(

But we over-estimate the importance of GCSEs. We think they must be done at 16, and that kids must do very well if they want to go to university. Neither of those beliefs is true: very many kids mess up their GCSEs and still get to uni; they can be re-taken; and frankly, apart from English and maths, no one actually cares what GCSEs someone gets, once they have progressed to A levels or BTEC level 3. He might not get into Oxbridge, but nothing he does or doesn't do now will keep him out of uni if that's what he wants to do.

Personally I would not spend the £16k. If he won't go, I would withdraw him. I'd give him fair warning, and see if he decides to engage, but if not I'd take him out. Home Ed is not as daunting a prospect as you think. And if not that, then any school will do, frankly, until he decides he's actually going to go to it. Pupil Referral Units are very good too, and have plenty of kids like your DS.

Of course these aren't your ideal options. But neither is the current situation. Of course he's making life harder than it needs to be... But he will be ok, as soon as he decides to pull his socks up.

PRU!!! Oh flow, I've heard that our local one is horrendous. Surely he won't want to go there. He's told me horror stories of boys he knows about that go there. I really don't know. I wanted to take him away from the toxic loser environment he was in before, but now I'm not sure he will ever fit in anywhere. He is a loner, only in contact really with some nice but dims from his old school, and his skype friends whoever they may be. BUT although he is a nightmare as far as school is concerned, he doesn't go out and get drunk / take drugs / get into trouble .... for that I'm thankful. But this isn't a normal 15 year old life either. He has so many talents! His english writing is fantastic. He's great at business. Yet his low self esteem is ruining his chances. What if he just didn't do any of the home schooling, but sat on his laptop watching youtube videos instead? I just can't bear it. But you have good advice, and it helps coming from someone who has been there.

I understand the frustration, it is sooo frustrating when you know that they have huge ability to do the work, but you cannot do it for them; they have to want to do it themselves for themselves. At that age they think they know everything .Often they don't even know what they want and just give us the answers they think we want to hear to keep us quiet. Would the school let him sit the exams at the end of the year even if he does not attend on a regular basis ? I would go and meet with them and talk about things. Just for your info you dont need GSCES to do A levels as a private student, so even if he does not go the conventional route all is not lost. You can sit IGCSE( I think Edexel exam board has them ) as a private student but you would have to check that there was no marked course work involved.

Well, loopy, if he thinks the PRU is awful, then perhaps that will help focus his mind?! Because it isn't reasonable for you to continue to pay so much m

I couldn't pay fees if he won't go.
Document everything you are doing to try to get him to go to school, authorities can't punish you if you are doing everything in your power to get him there. You are not expected to physically wrestle him in.

His home environment does sound comfortable. Might want to look at making it less so.

oney for a school he isn't going to, and if his attendance is bad, and you can't face home ed, then a PRU may be his only option...

But honestly, you sound very close to panic loopy. I remember that state. Don't panic. You need to look after yourself and sort something to do that is pleasant, enjoyable and relaxing for you. :)

Oh, I feel for you, I really do. Flow4's advice is spot on. Her insight is amazing ( Flow, you are amazing. You have no idea how much you have helped me understand my son over the last year). It is so hard, but I am sure it will all be alright in the end.

Your son sounds pretty great actually, motivated, organised, good with money. But unconventional, and maybe not suited to the mainstream?

I fell in love with a man who had been expelled from school at 16 with no qualifications at all. 30 years on he is highly qualified and widely respected in his field. I am immensely proud of him.
I followed the conventional path through education and struggled so much to understand these left field people and their inability to "fit in" to the norm for years.

Unfortunately our sons have taken after their father. Both did manage to get a small handful of GCSE's though my hair is unduly white as a result.
The eldest, after 6 years of drifting announced he knew what he wanted to do with his life and was going to Uni, did an Access course and at 24 is now at a highly respected RG Uni studying a heavy weight subject and loves every minute of it. At 16 he had no idea who he was or what the point of anything was. I would say that the GCSE's he did at 16 had no weight whatsoever when he did the Access course. He had to basically retake Level 2 Maths and English.
The youngest, who is not academic but has some fairly specific skills, much like your son, somehow managed to scrape through year 11, though he was much more co-operative at that age than his brother (or father I imagine). I was so hopeful that he was going to follow a more conventional path. Then half way through Yr12 he just dropped out. The following year was so painful, watching him seemingly throw it all away, and bringing back all those feelings from watching as his brother had done the same.

But this time I managed to detach ( thank you Flow4 again!) and step back and trust that he would be alright in the end, even if it took 5, 6, 10 years, because basically he is a great kid. He has a good bedrock of qualities and skills that he gained in his childhood and through his genetic makeup and it is up to him now to sort out what he does with those.
We will always be here for him and will always offer advice when asked, and sometimes when not asked, as they do still need the odd prod.

At 18 he is now back at college studying a vocational course in a subject he loves and working part-time. He lives with friends and comes home every few days.

I don't know if any of that helps.

I do know that you must not panic. If he doesn't get through this year it will be ok, honestly. But it is hard

He bought his own laptop the other day but I guess I can take it away one day if this continues. I can stop his bank card. These are all things I was hoping not to have to resort to but perhaps there's no option now.

You are paying for a private education for him. Stick prices on all his stuff and make him pay for every day he misses.

But, as others have said, if he is determined to screw up he will. But it is not the end of the world.

What an interesting lad your son must be! I am very impressed by his entrepreneurial spirit and skills. It’s a pity he doesn’t find school rewarding. He might be one of those people who are a roaring success in life without ever passing an exam, or one of those who goes to college later on. I think you are right to respect his online business efforts.

Do you have any other family or friends who run their own businesses? Would they let your DS shadow them for a few days during half term? That might help him see the world outside his bedroom as a more welcoming place?

The other thing I might try, is that (if possible) I would remove his computer, phone and other electronics during school hours. Whether he paid for them or not, he can have them (or use them) at other times, and he can do whatever else during school hours. He can still do business, just not during school hours.

Whether he has to go to the local sink school or the PRU instead of the expensive school, is up to him. Like flow says. That really is under his control and not yours. Chances are the school will call you and him in fairly soon to talk about his attendance and that could be a good time to have a conversation with him about it on neutral ground. Make it clear that you and the school are giving him this opportunity but it is only up to him to use it, or not, and the consequences will be what they will be.

And I'm sure he'll end up in the right place though he may get there the long way round!

I'm slightly scared of wading in on a subject I know nothing about here. please forgive me if I do, and ignore what I post.

I wonder if the root of your son's school refusal is depression, rather than obstience. you mention a couple of times that he is miserable and doesn't want to get out of bed. if I was looking at an adult with those symptoms i'd think they could do with a visit to the drs... if you removed the cause by getting him to see someone to talk to that is a bit more objective you might get tp the route cause of it? they say depression goes undiagnosed in children fairly regularly...

just a suggestion, as I say, please ignore if it doesn't fit...

I do so remember that feeling of panic in the early morning: I used to wake up at 4 o'clock and lie there thinking "it's nearly morning, I ^can't go through with it again".

Dd missed the best part of secondary school due to a combination of genuine physical pain and anxiety. It knocked years off my life.

But at the end of the day it may not mean that much. She is now in sixth form (only needed 5 GCSE's to get into a very good local sixth form to do mainly academic subjects- including history which she had had to drop in secondary due to poor attendance). If she can get through with decent A-level grades and a good personal statement I don't see why she shouldn't be able to go to a good university if that is what she decides. (though in fact her mind is set on stage school, at which point it all becomes a bit irrelevant)

As for the legal side of it, I can only repeat- keep engaging with the school! They won't fine you if they believe in you. You can ask for their help.

That reminds me of something I forgot to say yesterday about the legal stuff: when my son was truanting and I couldn't make him go, the school sent me a letter threatening a fine and a referral to the Education Welfare service. So I phoned them myself, explained what was going on, and asked for their help. They told me they couldn't offer any help, but they did at least reassure me that they wouldn't fine me, since I was doing everything I could. That took the pressure off a bit, and might be something for you to consider doing too, loopy.

I am so grateful to all of you! I feel encouraged by all that you say. I know deep down that he IS a good kid and WILL be OK. The doc recommended a psychologist but he refused to see him. So my husband and I have been going. It's been really useful. Nothing has changed but talking does feel good. And only today at our visit, he also suggested as most of you are doing, that we may need to move away from our very conventional route of expecting him to achieve good grades etc this year. He may just not be ready for this and perhaps the pressure of it all is getting to him. (I do think he is depressed sometimes yes, but he won't allow a doc to see him!). So I think this conversation, and now having it reinforced by the psych, has given me a lot of food for thought. My son actually WANTS to do very well, wants to get the grades and I think would be horrified at extending his school education by a year, but if we give him the opportunity to make that choice himself, perhaps he'll choose to put his head down and get on with it, rather than having it imposed on him by us. I think if there's one thing left we can do to help him it's to take the pressure off a bit. So thank you all so much! Btw he got up cheerfully this morning and went in, in good time. I think this will just be his pattern. And since ranting and raving when he gets those morning black moods and can't get it together to go, doesn't help at all, we need to think of another way to deal with those days. I feel much better today, yes, you're right about the morning panic - what a way to have to start the day! But hey ho. It certainly sounds like I am not alone and there are many good endings out there to hang on to :)

Loopy - given the school you have him at, combined with the fact that they emailed some work for him - can you see if the school will work with you so that on'black' days he gets relevant work emailed to him as per yesterday? I know its not as good as attending - but he won't be missing as much (and if he's quick, he might even do more at home than he would in class).

Glad its feeling a bit more positive today too.

Yes, I think they will. Perhaps some teens just have a harder time of it than I did (never would have dreamed of not getting up and going to school but not everyone is lucky not to have had such mood swings I spose).

Loopy - I could have written this! Am going through exactly the same with DS (15) and don't have much option left but to home educate. I share your feelings and am also grateful to other posters for the great advice.

Also – speaking as the mother of a teenage DS who has real difficulties with social skills – maybe another way of keeping the pressure off, would be to think more positively about the other people your DS interacts with?

It seems wrong somehow to call his fellow gamers and clients “saddos”. Maybe I’m just being a bit touchy because my DS does a lot of online gaming and although it bores me to tears it’s a good social opportunity for him. (He’s just about to start as Dungeon Master for an online D&D game which will be a challenge as he’ll have to keep five players interested and co-operating!) Lumping them all in as “sad” isn’t going to help your DS to recognise the difference between decent people who offer him legitimate paid work online, and people who might take advantage of him or draw him into a scam, either as a scammer or a victim.

And it seems a bit harsh to call the friends from his old school who stay in contact with him “nice-but-dim”. OK, they’re not academic achievers but they’re his real friends and they don’t sounds like trouble-makers which would be the real danger. Of course we all want the very best for our kids but sometimes we (well I do anyway!) have to step back and remember to be pleased for what our children have.

You are right, sorry I didn't mean to sound offensive Kleinzeit.

Thank you OP for taking the time to post your original thread - I am in much the same situation with DS1 who is 15 and repeating year 10. he hates school, hates fellow pupils and the majority of teachers - he sufferes school-based anxiety and is on medication - I would never have been brave enough to make my own thread about DS1 - as I thought I would just get a lot of responses with 'make him go - you're his mother!' and I have a huge chip on my shoulder about my children being seen to 'fail' as a single parent.

he is exceptionally bright, kind loving and when he is at his best, fantastic. he spends a lot of time online as well, but doesnt really have a focus as such as to what he wants to 'do' with his life. home schooling isnt an option - I work full time, I can't afford a tutor - I am sometimes at my wits end because he has so much potential.

This thread and all the responses is incredibly helpful - thank you. I think I just need to chill ouit a bit - the waking up at 4AM thinking, 'what shit is he going to pull this morning to get out of school' is very familiar...

loopy, another thought, and something that was true for my own DS...

You say he wants to do well, and he is clearly bright. It sounds like he has found school easy in previous years and is a year or two 'ahead' (doing his GCSE year at 14?)... I think many bright kids hit a point - around this age - where they start to find school work difficult for the first time, and because they have never had to make much effort before, this throws them. In their heads, they're the sort of people who don't have to try - but suddenly they do, and it's confusing. They equate trying with being stupid and/or with failure, and they become afraid that since suddenly they are needing to try, they must be about to fail...

My DS very definitely believed this. He's bright, and up to year 9 never had to make any effort academically at all. Then lessons started to get more challenging, and it made him really worried. He didn't think (as I would do) "Oh, the work is getting harder, so I'll have to work harder"; instead he thought "There must be something wrong with me, I hate this".

Then I think he decided that if he wasn't going to meet his previous standards without trying, he would simply stop trying. Somehow, it seemed more tolerable to fail because he hadn't bothered than to fail although he had tried. It became a terrible downward spiral and it took him 2-3 years to get enough confidence and maturity to try something if there was any risk at all that he might fail. He still finds it difficult...

Does any of that sound familiar?

If so, he needs to learn that effort is ok, and that failing at something isn't the end of the world - he can always try again. If I had my time again, I'd give DS more practice at trying and (yes, I know this sounds odd) failing, so he wasn't so scared of it by the time he reached his GCSEs. Maybe you could do this with your DS?