school refusal and simply does as he pleases

[loopyloo123]

Same old same old. For two years we had problems with school attendance, in the end we moved my 14 year old to a private college for his GCSE year. This was his request and decision to take the place. It has been a huge sacrifice for us, but we felt we had no option, it simply wasn't working out for him at his academy. Two weeks into term and all seemed well, we began to breathe again. Now it's week 4 and he's already missed three different days. For no reason - can't get up, can't be bothered, doesn't see the point. I've heard it all for the past two years. My fears are confirmed: not a problem with the school or the teachers or the work. It's just him. This is his pattern. If he doesn't feel like doing something, he simply doesn't do it. He looks for someone to blame all the time - in this case it's his parents for sending him to 'an inferior' school all those years ago (he was fine for years 7 - 8, and it's not a terrible school at all). He is simply playing us. It's difficult to confiscate stuff because he bought all his gadgets himself. He is bright and works hard when he wants to. He just doesn't want to very often. He is happy at this new place, and when he's in a good mood, gets up happily and goes off to school. I feel completely hurt and let down. Should I stand back and just let him blow this one chance he has now of turning his school life around? Not sure I can stop it anymore.

I'd always say it's worth a try, going to CAMHS. But don't count on it. The threshold for support is very high. Some parents (including myself) fight and fight for a CAMHS referral, finally get one, and are then told their DC doesn't meet the criteria. I was desperate and felt very let down. So... Seek a referral, but realise it may not give you the support you need. That's why those of us who've been through problems go on about 'looking after yourself': there often isn't much else available...

I want to be kind to myself, yes. It's difficult though because no matter how much I know the problem is his, I feel helpless and hopeless as a mother, knowing I've got a son with a problem that I can't solve or help him solve. A friend of mine said maybe it's because I work from home and he likes the idea of being around me / home / the dog/ Well that may be true but I am damned if I'm going to take on even more guilt about that!!!

Well yes, maybe he does like being at home with you and the dog but it would be unusual for a 14yo to like it so much that they wont go to school, eh? My DS loves me and our cats but he would still rather rampage round a secondary school than stay home all day with us! (But his problems mean that my no-electronics-in-the-school-day rule has had to apply to exclusions, so I have my share of grey hairs too)

Of course it’s not your doing that your DS seems unable to cope with more than 3 days a week at school. (And of course you can't help worrying and feeling sad you can't do more to help him, it's what we Mums do!!) I’d guess it’s some kind of anxiety/depression-type thing but sometimes teenagers are just plain odd! No harm in asking CAMHS for help, though as flow says no guarantees they’ll do anything, but my impression is that these things are very regional and you might get lucky.

Something to consider might be to start a dialogue with him about the path he is taking.

3 days a week at school is unlikely to result in outstanding exam results. Talk about what next based on the assumption that there is no magic going to happen. Dont talk about it as a negative thing just as an inevitability.

Have you talked to him about his business? Could you encourage him to put it on a more formal footing? The reality of keeping accounts and filing a tax return might be quite an eye opener and also a good discipline for him.

I'm sorry if I've missed this or if it seems obvious but can you turn the wifi off at night. Could he possibly be on his computer till all hours? My friend discovered her son was doing this and he was refusing school as he was so tired from being up all night playing xbox with various people around the world.

No, he definitely isn't on the internet at night as his laptop charges outside his room and his phone too. I think he just has that oh no it's school again feeling sometimes as we all have about work when it's raining and cold ... but whereas everyone else just gets on with it, no matter how negative they feel, he seems to think it's OK to just give in to these negative feelings. This is what I just can't seem to get through to him - that we all want to stay in bed sometimes but we can't! We don't! He is impossible to reason with or talk to and when I broach the subject of what the outcome may be if he doesn't go regularly, he literally puts up his hand and says STOP talking about it, I don't want to hear about it. Talk about denial! I think it doesn't help that he doesn't have mates at school, so it's a long and quite lonely day, but again, this was his choice, he wanted a new start and was aware that it would be a while before he made firm friends, if at all (he never has had many friends, even since he was a toddler). I feel sad for him but really feel that I can't do a lot more to help him now. Lovely therapist man wrote to him to ask him to consider coming to see him and I found the letter scrunched up in the bin.

He sounds anxious but as if staying at home all the time will just make him more introverted and fearful.
I think he needs to go. Tr and check there is no specific problem, then if there isn't, I would make him attend in that you sit him down, tell him he will find it tough but he has to attend all year no matter what. That we all find this hard but it will get harder the longer he avoids things.

It's important for him to fit in, and become more confident. Is he a bit obsessive?

I would love it to be that simple Dontspeak, I'm in excactly
the same position as loopy even with the online business interests. The conversation about what he needs to do has been done many many times, the problems are more deep seated than that. I've read this post with great interest and the advice given up post is very good and just reading it in the black mornings has given me great support.
I have a meeting with DS form teacher today, I will report back if any ideas are suggested.
I don't have a dog Loopy but I'm often weeping into my scarf in the mornings too.

loopy, your last post reminded me of something insightful and useful that a friend said/explained to me when my own DS1 was in this stage. She's a qualified psychiatric nurse and youth worker, and parent, and understands more about the workings of the teenage mind than most!

People who grow up learning to try difficult things go through a cycle of emotions: they're scared, they feel awful, they face their fear to try anyway, they succeed and feel great, or they fail but realise that bad feeling passes quickly and they soon feel ok again...

But some people get 'stuck'. They get so scared of failure, or the bad feelings, or trying, that they start avoiding the things that make them feel bad. And because they do this, they never push on through to experience the good feeling of success or to realise the bad feelings will pass again. All they feel is the bad feeling of fear or apprehension, or a state of no-feeling if they can manage to avoid difficult stuff.

This rang so true to me that I explained it to DS1 too, and told him I thought that was what was happening to him. Soon after that, he tried something important for the first time in months: he had a college course he'd wanted to do the year before, but hadn't applied for, and had missed his interview for that year, and the open recruitment day, and the late enrollment day, and reached the last chance final enrollment day... We had an awful, difficult day and he very nearly didn't go, but a combination of encouragement and threats and calm and reminding him of this 'face the fear' process did eventually get him there... And it was a major turning point for him. :)

He still finds it hard to face difficult things, but is at last realizing that the more often he does it, the less awful it feels...

I acknowledge that I really do.
I am wondering what happens if you try to push him a bit and basically tell him he's going or you will contact the truanting officer etc.... What would happen? Would he massively kick off or would he go in?

Hi Dont, on a black morning he pulls the duvet over him and ignores me completely. Any mention of a truancy officer would go unheard- he really doesn't care. He's 6' so I can't physically lift him. There have been occasions when he has gone in after steam has come out of my ears. At this stage he is in a foul mood and certainly not ready to do any work.
This has been going on for nearly 2 years, he's just turned 15. I'm self employed, working at home and it has an impact on this as I'm utterly exhausted with it and it really is not a way to carry on; for both of us
The school are aware of the problem.
DS solution however is to do a 3 day week and he would study the remaining 2 days on his own at home. He has come up with this idea and wants to give it a go.
The odd thing is he is remarkably good at things when he wants to do something and still wants to do well at school, he's just chosen a hard route to follow.
loopy could this help your DS?
The responses you've given up post have really struck a chord with me and also those of Flow the things you mention have clarified things a great deal, thank you all.

chinup, that is exactly like dd!

pushing just didn't do anything- in fact, when the disabled transport turned up one day and she couldn't cope she simply took an overdose

if somebody is in that terrible place where they believe being forced into the outside will kill them then you can't cure their problems by threatening to drag them in

if you tried to make somebody confront an angry lion or walk into a fire, they wouldn't be more willing to do it because you threatened to force them- they'd just jump into the river to escape, wouldn't they?

that's how it seems like to a person with extreme anxiety

what you need to show them is that they can learn to control the lion or put out the fire

dd did half days for the last year in secondary

it possibly saved her life

and hasn't spoiled her for the future: she now happily goes off at 7 in the morning to catch the college bus and sometimes doesn't get home until 11 at night because of rehearsals

Just wanted to add:

I comfort myself with the thought that because dd has had to do things the hard way she has also had to learn a lot along the way which she otherwise would not have done.

I do believe that that learning- about herself, about what triggers her, about how she can control her own reactions, about how you can spring back from a bad place- may stand her in good stead later in life.

And can't help noticing that older relatives who have traces of the same (no doubt genetic) anxiety patterns don't seem to have anything like the control and knowledge that she has- because they never acted out, so never had to stop and learn.

There is good in there somewhere.

Comforting to hear that I'm not the only one in this situation. Thanks all! Chinup, are you sure you aren't me?!! Flow's story is encouraging though. It could just be a matter of time, but it's very hard to comfort yourself with that on those black days. I think it's so true about the fear of failure though, it does seem to have got him 'stuck'. He's been on half term this week and has hardly left the house, total agoraphobia, going to be hard to get him out of the inertia coupled with obvious reluctance to go to school. Simply cannot engage with the world at all, very sad to see.

If you sit him down on a Sunday and say, look you have to go to school so we will be going every day from now on, that's what I expect, what would he say?

I have three very different children and one of them was a bit like this... But I also felt he was happier when engaging and achieving , and I also felt I had probably allowed him too much his own way and found it harder to be strict and firm when he didn't want to do things so I think that behaviour became engrained.

Ah. Parents who are lucky enough to have cooperative children very often believe that 'good parenting' leads to kids doing what they're told. They find it hard to believe that some parents do 'good parenting', and still end up with 'challenging' teenagers.

The fact is, when children are small, we can 'make' them do things, but by the time they reach adolescence, we can't. Teenagers do what they're told because (a) they want to, or (b) they can see it's worth it.

If you have a teenager who really, really doesn't want to do something, or one whose view of the world means that they can't see or believe it's 'worth' doing something difficult, then their parent cannot 'make them'. They have to make themself.

Your role as a parent with a teenager in this situation is not to try to find a way to 'make' them - you will fail - but to help them learn to make themselves do it.

Ime, very often it is because the situation they find themselves in feels so awful to a teenager that they just want to get out of it, and can't see how or why they could possibly tolerate it. I think there are three possible 'solutions' for a parent:

• 'Realism': help your teen evaluate the situation realistically. Sometimes they get things out of proportion (hormones, lack of sleep, teen drama and drugs don't help) and actually, they find they can tolerate something they don't like if they can realise it's manageable, and not as huge, scary, bad or out-of-control as they thought. Things that help here are lists of 'fors and againsts', 'strengths and weaknesses', and helping a teen identify their skills and limits.

Parents need to be realistic too, though; it can be hard to face, if the best, realistic option for a teen really is to leave school, or whatever.

• 'Pay off': help them explore and understand future 'pay offs'. They may stay in a situation they don't like now, if they see why it is worth tolerating for future reasons. The 'pay offs' can be many and varied, from simply 'feeling good about yourself' through to getting a good job or being thrown out of the parental home... (Ime, the more a teenager is used to avoiding difficult things, the more s/he will need 'short term' pay-offs rather than long-term ones s/he doesn't quite believe in...)

• 'Strategies': help them find (new) ways of tolerating things they don't like. Some teenagers are really bad at this, and avoid unpleasant things/feelings simply because they don't have any ways of dealing with them. Strategies include 'breathe deeply and count to ten', stress management techniques, 'rewards', 'time out', etc...

flow
I do have a very cooperative child, my youngest. I am sure it is just his nature...there has never been a problem with anything and there isn't now. Great. I have two older dc and the elder one had a big problem getting up in the morning to go to school... He didn't want to go, was a bit anxious and is very bright but you have to tease it out of him. What I was saying was, when I struggled with this very same problem , is that he is a person who like to do things he want to do, not do those things he can't be bothered with....I did manage to get him in with a struggle but if I had left him to his own devices he would become very insular.He finds it hard but once he is engaged and doing things he is more positive. One year for example he refused to sign on...he went there but wouldn't go in. Now, he is at uni and fingers crossed will keep up.
So I am in no way criticising OP far from it, with my younger one I have purposefully let him have less choices and been a lot more firm .... Not that this would have changed the eldest because he is fundamentally different, but with my eldest there was a component of laziness and wanting his own way too. When he was smaller I did tend to give in a lot as he was strong minded and it became self perpetuating.
So OP I do understand it is complex and difficult I hope you get some strategies to help you from the school or on here.

And when you say "I did manage to get him in with a struggle", I am pointing out that (IMO) you didn't get him in; he got himself in. :)

Parents who have helped their teens do things they don't want to do often assume their tactics were/are better. But IMO, what you do doesn't matter; it's what you help your teen to do him/herself that counts: tactics that give them less control will not work; tactics that give them more understanding and control of their own behaviour and feelings do help.

Sorry you misunderstand me, I don't think my tactics are better. Just one other persons experience for the OP...
Don't argue with me for no reason.

Just to be clear... I am not saying being firmer at age 12 or 13 yrs makes any difference, its all too late by then , but in my own case I was a lot firmer from babyhood with subsequent children and that did help in my particular family, of course it was way too late for my eldest and I think if I had parented him in various ways slightly differently it would have helped in his particular case .

Sorry I have only skimmed this thread - bad form I know but I am supposed to be out the door.

Just wanted to ask if you had considered a form of OCD might be part of the problem?

Friend of DS had terrible problem with " timekeeping" in mid teens. Kept everyone waiting ( for social and school stuff).

He is now 21 and his mum told me recently he suffered from OCD and had lots of rituals ( esp) showering/ light switches/ checking things which delayed him.

If only we had known at the time we could have been more understanding.

Another thought from me- even later now.
Could you extend the financial sacrifice to send him to weekly boarding somewhere?
Or send him to a relative?
Just thinking this might break tyecpattern

The pattern , even

Dontspeak, I find it incredibly hard to believe that the OP hasn't already tried the conversations you suggest. Most of us with children with serious problems have, you know.

It's like the difference between saying "you've got to pull yourself together and go to work" to a person with a head cold and saying it to a person with pleurisy. When I have a head cold I can talk myself into just getting on with things, when I had pleurisy Demosthenes himself couldn't have talked me into moving 5 inches.

The person with a head cold would think it's a simple matter of self discipline. The person with pleurisy less so.

As I said before, when we tried the authoritative talk with dd, she got so stressed that she tried to kill herself.

And fwiw I am a fairly firm, calmly authoritative parent: teachers have always commented on how polite and well behaved my children are. In fact, the psychiatrist who has been seeing dd has wondered if her eagerness to please isn't the biggest part of the problem: she gets so terribly stressed between the thought of not living up to expectation and the conviction that she can't that the only way is out. Between a rock and a hard place pretty well sums it up. Making the rock harder and fortifying the hard place isn't really the answer. Helping her to see that she can deal with them is.

As I say I have had the same issues so not from the outside looking in. Normal measures don't work but I was interested to know how OPs ds tends to respond to those conversations, is all.