DD and family are asking me not to use mumsnet

[Minifingers]

My 13 year old DD has stalked me across mumsnet - logging on to my settings and searching my history to see what I've written about her. I've tried to cover my tracks by clearing my history and occasionally name changing, but she's seen quite a lot of what I've written. She is furious that I'm talking about her on an internet board and has asked me to stop. I have explained that I've had fantastic advice and support from this board which at times has been sanity-saving for me, and that it's all anonymous. No matter. She doesn't want me to talk about her here, or to phone parent line and discuss our problems there either.

She has support in this from my mother (who is 78, has never used the internet and doesn't understand how boards like this work) and from DH who I suspect feels pretty contemptuous about mn generally. I've not had one family member support me in seeing this board as useful support and advice.

Should add - I have been bought to the edge of despair by dd's behaviour over the last few years. I feel my life is very stressful - I have an autistic child as well as dd and there are times I have felt like I'm hanging on by my fingertips. The thought of not being able to get support or 'talk' to people outside of the family about what we are going through is very upsetting.

But is it wrong of me to carry on using this board if I know DD is accessing it, and if there's no way I can stop her from seeing my posts?

It's becoming a real issue, and dd has raised it with the psychiatrist she is seeing at CAMHS. She says that they have told her that it's wrong for me to write about my family on mumsnet. I doubt they've actually said this, but he may have acknowledged her feeling her privacy has been violated.

Wonder what you think?

I am deeply sorry you are in this situation. Apologies if mentioned, I've tried to read the postsso far but,

You need to secure your passwords better. Letters capitals numbers and signs eg C1tapuL$ as this is much harder to break

You need to stop using close names/pets etc as passwords. I used catapult above. Use very ordinary words as they are again much harder to guess

You should set up a different email address. What's bothering me is potentially her level of 'stalker ship' (apologies can't think of another phrase) If she's following you around she's reading more than mn and if she knows your passwords that's heading towards much bigger problems. She must be spending a lot of time checking up on you.

Have you thought about a dual counselling session? Bad example, but the kardashians did one and it frankly looked a great idea. I'd not seen that before. Maybe all her sessions being alone isn't as helpful as sounds? It's a bit one sided.

Post but post differently. Suggest debate topic; 13 wearing make up wwyd? Rather than I hate dd trying my eyeliner! Which if you just had a fight over that she could decide was her even if it wasn't. There's a lot of people with teens. Some problems will be similar. Again could you even post together? Put it to mn jury?

Finally, you are teaching her how to use the Internet. It's an extremely dangerous place. You must be very careful of your standard of behaviour as your TEEN is going to emulate you. So, be safe, be careful and be the person you would want to be seen as.

Good luck. Hope you both work it out.

himalayan, the psychiatrist is the daughter's, not the mother's; mini may not even have access. The psych will certainly not have time to read anything like this - mini's DD is probably allocated 1 hour per week. Support for teens with MH problems is scarce; support for their parents is non-existent.

Think about this scenario... A woman living with domestic violence seeks support. As part of this, she posts on an online chat forum. Other members tell her she must not post about her experiences without the permission of her abusive partner. They suggest the woman should contact her abuser's psychiatrist and do whatever s/he advises. They say the man's right to privacy outweighs her right to support...

It's unthinkable, isn't it? Obviously absurd... And yet it's an exact parallel with what you are suggesting here.

That is one of the most awful things about living with a teen like this: your child is also your abuser. You are caught in an appalling double-bind, because your responsibility for that child is in direct conflict with your self-preservation.

Other people tend not to understand at all; and parents who think of themselves as first and foremost their child's protector and champion find it particularly hard to imagine a situation where their child's needs do not come first.

But it is like the advice you get about oxygen on aeroplanes. You must look after yourself first; if you naively think your duty is to always look after your child first, you will be unconscious before you know it, and then you will be unable to do anything or help anyone.

mini, if MN is your 'oxygen' (as it has been mine), then use it.

"parents who think of themselves as first and foremost their child's protector and champion find it particularly hard to imagine a situation where their child's needs do not come first."

Well, yes.

The dd's psychiatrist would certainly make time to clarify whether s/he has in fact given the advice about MN use which dd is saying she has given. Obviously if the mother is not going to comply with professional advice, if it has indeed been given, then it would help the psychiatrist to know that. Similarly if the child is lying about what professional advice is being given to the family, then the psychiatrist needs to know that.

This is a 13-year-old child.

Add message | Report | Message poster Wishiwasanheiress Mon 03-Jun-13 08:15:42

"Have you thought about a dual counselling session? Bad example, but the kardashians did one and it frankly looked a great idea. I'd not seen that before. Maybe all her sessions being alone isn't as helpful as sounds? It's a bit one sided."

The OP will not be in a position to dictate to CAHMS how they use the very limited funds available. They are there primarily to help the daughter; if they decide that is best done by individual sessions, then that's what they will provide. Also, it won't necessarily be the same staff members who are trained to do individual sessions and family therapy, so you will get what is available.

The other thing about family sessions- and I've mentioned this in a previous post- is that they will not be sessions in which the mother can speak unguardedly the way her dd can in her private sessions. In family therapy, the whole family is present, so the daughter will hear everything the mother says. So if the daughter can't accept that her mother speaks privately on parentline, she is not necessarily going to cooperate in a family session either.

I have had plenty of family therapy sessions and in one sense they work very well for us: my dd is thoughtful and considerate and genuinely concerned to find solutions and so am I.

Otoh the very fact that we are thoughtful and considerate and genuinely concerned doesn't exactly make it easier for either of us to say "My situation is unbearable, there are days I don't want to get out of bed, I can't cope with this any longer". To do that you need a private outlet, without the affected person peering over your shoulder.

Absolutely agree with flow's oxygen analogy.

Have you thought about the scenario I gave, himalayan?

himalayan, if the psychiatrist meant any comments about internet use as medical advice that the mother was to comply with, surely s/he would have told the mother? How can she comply if she hasn't been told?

Ime of CAHMS, there is no time for individual sessions with parents, but they can have a quick word at the end of the session (this is what we discussed) or send you an email.

Yes, flow, you say "it's an exact parallel with what you are suggesting here."

It's not. I really can't believe you are saying that a 13-year-old child is her mother's abuser and that there is an exact parallel with a situation where a wife is being abused by a violent husband. Are you really saying that?

And him, it is self-evidently, obviously not 'professional advice'. If it had been, the psych would have spoken to mini directly, not passed a message on through a child.

Cory, yes of course it could be done by email. Most health professionals would assume that a 13-year-old would be believed by her mother; if that's not the case, then clarification is needed.

himalayan Mon 03-Jun-13 09:01:47
"Cory, yes of course it could be done by email. Most health professionals would assume that a 13-year-old would be believed by her mother; if that's not the case, then clarification is needed."

Does that not depend on the reason the dd is being seen by a psychiatrist and what the psychiatrists have learned about her in the course of the sessions?

You are working on the assumption that the CAHMS professionals will be judging this 13yo as an ordinary healthy 13yo. But they already know she is not that, or they wouldn't be wasting taxpayers' money on her.

I would hope they see her as a very vulnerable child who needs help.

Not being believed is a pretty serious issue, especially for a girl.

Dd is in many ways a truthful teenager and I am sure CAHMS have usually found her a reliable source of information.

But since they know what her exact problems are and why they are treating her, they would never trust her to convey information that related to her specific areas of anxieties; after months of finding out precisely in what areas she isn't functioning, they're not then going to make the mistake of shrugging their shoulders and saying "oh surely a teen her age should be like this". If she was exactly like you could expect from a teen her age, they wouldn't be seeing her in the first place.

himalayan Mon 03-Jun-13 09:11:20
"I would hope they see her as a very vulnerable child who needs help.

Not being believed is a pretty serious issue, especially for a girl."

This is not about not believing the child in general; it is about whether you have the courtesy to convey a piece of information directly to the person who is supposed to comply with it.

Yes him, I am saying that.

Of course there are different levels and types of abuse. An abusive man may put down his partner, control what she does, humiliate her, slap her, black her eye, beat her daily or attack her with an axe. It is all abuse.

mini's daughter is not blacking her eye or attacking her with an axe, but she has abused her in these other ways.

And yes, she is only 13. Which makes it much, much harder, not easier.

Because she will not entirely understand what she is doing. Because she will not be in full control. Because she will not know her own strength. Because hardly anyone will understand. Because many people will judge and blame mini for being the mother of a child who does these things to her. Because 'leaving the bastard' is not an option. Because mini will have next-to-no support, except here on MN.

Ever consider that view might be wrong, flow?

To me, it doesn't matter if flow's analogy is correct or not.

The truth is that a 13yo may well be bigger and stronger than her parent (dd certainly was at that age) and if she is prepared to get physical there is very little the parent can do.

iirc minifinger's dd has actually been physically violent.

Of course, him. I have spent hours and hours and hours considering that view might be wrong. I spent a couple of years being abused by my own teenage son, thinking I must be wrong. When he grew bigger than me and I had to call 999 to keep myself safe from him, it became suddenly clear-cut. But the behaviour that led up to that was also abuse - it didn't come out of nowhere.

A child who abuses his/her parent is still, also, "a very vulnerable child who needs help".

Both abuser and vulnerable child, simultaneously. Can you see how very, very hard that makes it for the parent?

"Leaving the bastard" is an option, because a child can be moved to a safer place. I would hope CAMHS is looking at that.

There is no contradiction between seeing the dd as a vulnerable child who needs help and also seeing the mother as a vulnerable person who needs help.

They are both vulnerable to whatever it is that makes the dd act like she does.

In our own case, I think of dd's illness as an abuser who abuses both of us.

This still doesn't mean that it isn't sensible for me to get whatever help I can. Flow's analogy of the oxygen mask is spot on. Dd needs me to be strong and well to help her. To be strong and well, I need to be looked after, I need to be listened to, I need my needs met. Just like she does.

change your password and carrying on posting. Mumsnet is a great place to discuss issues and sometimes it helps as people aren't emotionally involved in the way your family are. don't tell them. it is none of their business.

Is it sensible for you to get whatever help you can at the cost of your child ?

"Leaving the bastard" is an option, because a child can be moved to a safer place. I would hope CAMHS is looking at that."

CAMHS will only be looking at that option if they judge that mini is harming her daughter - not the other way round. Taking a child into care costs tens of thousands of pounds and is a last resort. Services will do everything possible to keep a child at home, unless s/he is being abused.

They will not consider mini's needs, and whether she might need protection or support.

himalayan Mon 03-Jun-13 09:33:22
"Is it sensible for you to get whatever help you can at the cost of your child ?"

If the child doesn't go stalking it won't be at the cost of the child.

The OP could as well take to listening at the doors of the CAHMS clinic and then say the child has no right to get help at her cost.

But you have been asked before, we are asking you again: how is the OP to access help, given that CAHMS do not offer individual sessions for parents, that an ordinary therapist (if the OP can afford to pay, which we don't know) is unlikely to have any expertise in thgis particular area, and that the dd is also trying to stop her from using Parentline? What are your suggestions?

My own experience would seem to suggest that if the mother doesn't get help, then the ensuing fall-out will come at the expense of the child. I haven't had half the troubles the OP has and probably a good deal more support. But my health is shot to pieces. I am worn out. I would be a far better mother if I was in better physical and emotional shape. So in the end, it is my dc who suffer.

Yes and absolutely what flow said about taking into care. No way will they take the child into care if the mother is not harming her. There is a desperate shortage of foster homes even for children who are at risk from their parents; as to children who constitute the risk- well, Child Protection isn't there to protect the parents.

Yes, I think that if your DD feels that you are being disloyal to her by writing about your family dynamics, including her, on a public board, then you should stop.