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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

DD and family are asking me not to use mumsnet

301 replies

Minifingers · 30/05/2013 10:11

My 13 year old DD has stalked me across mumsnet - logging on to my settings and searching my history to see what I've written about her. I've tried to cover my tracks by clearing my history and occasionally name changing, but she's seen quite a lot of what I've written. She is furious that I'm talking about her on an internet board and has asked me to stop. I have explained that I've had fantastic advice and support from this board which at times has been sanity-saving for me, and that it's all anonymous. No matter. She doesn't want me to talk about her here, or to phone parent line and discuss our problems there either.

She has support in this from my mother (who is 78, has never used the internet and doesn't understand how boards like this work) and from DH who I suspect feels pretty contemptuous about mn generally. I've not had one family member support me in seeing this board as useful support and advice.

Should add - I have been bought to the edge of despair by dd's behaviour over the last few years. I feel my life is very stressful - I have an autistic child as well as dd and there are times I have felt like I'm hanging on by my fingertips. The thought of not being able to get support or 'talk' to people outside of the family about what we are going through is very upsetting.

But is it wrong of me to carry on using this board if I know DD is accessing it, and if there's no way I can stop her from seeing my posts?

It's becoming a real issue, and dd has raised it with the psychiatrist she is seeing at CAMHS. She says that they have told her that it's wrong for me to write about my family on mumsnet. I doubt they've actually said this, but he may have acknowledged her feeling her privacy has been violated.

Wonder what you think?

OP posts:
TheRealFellatio · 03/06/2013 16:36

Sorry I sounded a bit stalkerish there. Confused
I don't know like, your door number and what colour the knickers on your washing line are, or anything. Grin

TheRealFellatio · 03/06/2013 16:36

No but I'll pm you hang on...

EldritchCleavage · 03/06/2013 16:45

When people post on these threads they don't have to agree with the OP or the prevailing consensus, far from it, but it would be good to post with some compassion for OPs in really difficult situations.

Maryz · 03/06/2013 17:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

ShinyPenny · 03/06/2013 20:21

It isn't difficult to change details and name change when you are at rock bottom and desperately need help/stories from others/advice but still want to protect another party's privacy.

So,
'My 13 year old son just told me he has accidentally got his 13 year old girlfriend pregnant. She is already 6 months. I am terrified.'
could become
'I am a teacher and a few years ago there was a situation where two young teens had a baby. I followed all the guidance but I still don't feel I supported them as well as I could have done. Have any of you known anyone very young have a baby? What happened? In case I have to handle it again.'

It is nice, if you have an ongoing issue, to be able to build up a relationship online with others, mutual support, and it's a shame that you can't get that with namechanging, but if your DD knows you use Mumsnet to talk about her, I agree it is ridiculous to expect her not to 'read your diary', and yes, I think you should respect her wishes and stop posting about her in a way that can identify her at all.

Perhaps only post where threads have a life and then go. Chat or the other place?
Or, go to another forum to talk about her but make her a boy in Glasgow.

flow4 · 03/06/2013 23:24

Are you OK mini?

I'm struck by the fact that the people who are saying it's not OK for you to discuss your DD and your situation are perfectly happy to discuss you. Hmm

piprabbit · 03/06/2013 23:57

Minifingers you are having an awful time and you need to get what support and sustenance you can. Maybe it would be useful to start a new thread asking for technical advice on maintaining privacy when using MN? There has been some good technical advice on here, but it has sort of got lost in amongst the rest of the opinion.

mathanxiety · 04/06/2013 06:08

The dd's psychiatrist would certainly make time to clarify whether s/he has in fact given the advice about MN use which dd is saying she has given. Obviously if the mother is not going to comply with professional advice, if it has indeed been given, then it would help the psychiatrist to know that. Similarly if the child is lying about what professional advice is being given to the family, then the psychiatrist needs to know that.

I don't think that's how it works, Himalayan.

There may be privacy issues even when a patient is a minor. The psychiatrist may be constrained from discussing any details of what goes on in their sessions and may not welcome any input from parents. He or she may well take the professional tack just listening and nodding and throwing in the odd question or comment and taking what the DD says as if she were living in a vacuum.

Minifingers · 04/06/2013 06:24

Oh gosh, been away from this board for a couple of days. Thought the thread had died. So many new comments!

In answer to all the comments about HOW dd can read posts about herself - she comes to this board and browses. She's sharp as a bag of tacks and any posts about a young teenager being aggressive and difficult at home are going to ring a bell with her. I realise there is always the option of changing sex/age/username, but tbh, I think dd is that astute (she really is very bright, despite the bad behaviour) she would see through it to the situation itself, which you can't disguise, no matter how many details you change. I'm not sure she's actually used the search facility on this site. She has borrowed my gadgets (ipad and phone), to make calls/do a quick text, and has probably seen my browsing history on that. I am on and off the computer all day, and my gadgets, using them in a very free-range way. Some of the time there isn't conflict and we just go about our business as a family. It's hard to use mumsnet in the way I do and probably most of us do (nip in and out while doing other jobs) while rigidly policing our privacy.

In any case, the question in my head is 'who is she worrying about seeing this'? Her friends know she has hit me and physically intimidated me because she has done it in front of them, and they've told her she shouldn't treat her mother like that! Her 15 year old cousin who is her best friend didn't talk to her for two weeks while she was on holiday with us (shared a cottage with SIL and family) because she was so angry with dd for being rude and disrespectful to me and DH. When we called the police to deal with her being threatening and violent she went straight into school and told them 'my mum called the feds on me'. The school know the extent of the problems we are having because I talk to them pretty much every week. Partly because I regularly have teachers phoning me or writing to me complain about her being rude and non-compliant in class. The school and her friends know she is getting help from CAMHS. Her extended family know everything that's going on - thank fuck as I have needed their support, and they have offered it. People who know me - mums at the school gate who I am friends with, family friends, all know we're going through a very hard time with her. Really - dd's behaviour is not a secret in my community and I can't imagine anyone I know and who knows me actually bothering to take the trouble to come her and stalk me all over the boards. And if they did, they wouldn't find out anything they don't already know. Ditto dd's friends, who are no more likely to end up on mumsnet than on the fucking moon. Seriously - this is the last place on earth they would be looking for anything. Most of them won't know this site exists - UNLESS DD TELLS THEM and directs them here to read my posts, and why would she do that?

As for CAMHS - we are having family therapy and dd also sees the psychiatrist separately. I have no idea if the psychiatrist has said to her that I 'shouldn't be using mumsnet'. DD has got spectacular form for distorting and downright lying about other people's views when she is trying to persuade me or DH to do or not do something which concerns her.

The family therapy must be costing the NHS ££££ because each session involves at least 4 therapists (two or three observing and two therapists in with us). I don't know how many sessions we will have (some of which are on our own and some with dd).

Last week's session I did find useful and things have been better at home this week. I think their view is that DD is a very strong personality and that some teenagers just are more challenging when it comes to issues surrounding authority. They have said that the problems we are having are 'relational' - which I interpret as meaning that it is what's going on between mainly me and dd which is causing the escalation of her defiance and aggression. That it has become a battle of wills. I have acknowledged that the best way to deal with a teen who is refusing to comply on a whole range of fronts/being disruptive at school/not doing any school work/truanting/not lifting a finger at home/being really nasty and sometimes verbally and physically abusive to much younger siblings (one with sn) - is not to plead, nag, bribe, shout and sometimes, eventually, cry and make noises about giving up. Or to emotionally withdraw because you feel exhausted and battered by the whole experience. But you know, when reasoning and polite requests are consistently ignored for months on end and you are FEARFUL for a child's future, and at a low ebb physically and mentally yourself, you often do find yourself engaging in 'non-optimal' parenting practices, as many people with difficult teens here will know. We are none of us born with a training in handing children like this, and ironically, even those people who do (the social workers/teachers/youth workers) sometimes find to their amazement that all their training, experience and expertise counts for nothing when they are trying to deal with their own obstructive, aggressive and defiant children.

I do wish that the therapists at CAMHS would acknowledge this: that there are some basic expectations of children which it is reasonable for parents to have of neurotypical children who are not psychologically unwell (DD, according to them, is not mentally ill) - that they go to school and do schoolwork, and that they help at home. And that when these basic expectations are strongly resisted for months and years on end, this IS going to result in an emotional struggle between parents and children. I feel like we are having this conversation with the therapists with no 'grounding' in this reality. All the focus is on how we feel about dd's behaviour, and how dd feels about ours, with none of the therapists seeming to acknowledge the context in terms of reasonable expectations which IMO is at the root of everything which has gone wrong in our family.

Incidentally, what has reduced conflict in the house this week has been my attempts to reach out to dd in an effort to show her some affection and concern, and not reacting to her bad behaviour. Over the past few months things have been so awful at home I've withdrawn from her, just feeling eaten up by anger and grief and resentment, and really struggling to show much affection. I have tried harder this week to reach out to her. I have tried not to get too wound up with her being nasty and aggressive to my youngest dc, refusing to help AT ALL with housework, despite it being half term, and despite me and dh tidying her room, buying her paint to redecorate it in colours that she likes (trying for a fresh start). She just outright refuses if you ask her to do even the simplest thing - please can you empty out the dishwasher/pick your pants off the bathroom floor, put that lunchbox drink back in the cupboard because they're for errr... lunchboxes.

But it seems that this is our lot: a clever teenager who WILL fail in school, and who seems likely to spend her remaining years at home behaving in an entitled and disrespectful way, because this, sadly, is just how she is: lazy and entitled, and we CANNOT find a way of changing this that she is amenable to and that doesn't result in conflict that tears the family apart and ruins everyone's happiness.

I think I said a few months ago on this board that I was going through a grieving process about accepting the reality of my dd's future of failing in education and probably in life generally because of her inability/unwillingness to show any sort of self-discipline/work ethic. Accepting that no matter how much I love her or want things to be different, that I can't change the fact that she is basically very, very lazy.

On a brighter note, hopefully the violence which happened a few weeks ago which resulted in her being sent to my mum's for a fortnight won't be repeated. I think she realises that hitting me is beyond the pale. We have made it clear to her that violence and school refusing will result in her being made to stay at my mum's or DH's mum's house for a period of time, and she has taken this on board.

In the meantime, I have accepted that if she goes to school and is not violent at home, this is about the most I can probably expect from her at the moment, and to bury my hopes for dd down in some deep, deep hole.

OP posts:
Minifingers · 04/06/2013 06:38

Himalayan - my dd is not 'at risk'. She has a big extended family who all know what is going on in our lives. She is loved, fed, listened to, supported with her school work (or would be if she did any). I have said nothing on here that is 'secret'. All of dd's friends know what is going on in her life because she has told them or they have seen it first hand when they've been at my home and she has been abusive towards me in front of them. They know she's been referred to counselling.

She is not worried about people she knows finding out these things about her. She doesn't like me talking about her to ANYONE because she believes that I am being unfair and nobody is seeing her side. It's a control issue.

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 07:40

Why don't you let up a bit, minifingers? I feel very sorry for you but you do seem awfully focused on your own agenda ("hopes") for your DD. She needs to find intrinsic motivation to live well...

Minifingers · 04/06/2013 07:41

Oh, meant to say - it's self evident that I have decided to continue to use this site as a sounding board for my thoughts on the journey we're on as a family. The whole oxygen mask analogy - that's it for me. There is no help in real life which can perform the same function as what Is available here - providing advice, sympathy, a listening ear FROM PEOPLE WHO HAVE EXPERIENCED WHAT I'M GOING THROUGH THEMSELVES. No amount of professional input from paid services can substitute for peer support, as mothers at all stages of their parenting career will attest to.....

OP posts:
GoblinGranny · 04/06/2013 07:46

What do you think will happen if you tried refusing to engage at all?
As in servicing the basic needs of a 13 year old that she can't do for herself, and that only? Even to the extent of no extended conversations, no homework reminders and when the school phones up to complain, tell them you will back whatever sanctions they impose, but it's up to them to deal with her at school?

Minifingers · 04/06/2013 08:30

Goblin - we have done this. For months.

She HAS to go to school. Or we will be prosecuted. The school has made it clear to us that they will follow through on this.

I can't refuse to engage with teachers who are phoning me up telling me she has been rude to them in class. I can't not turn up at parents evening/read her reports.

But yes - I have got to the point of not engaging with her over homework and leaving it to the school.

Sadly, because it's a typical inner city comprehensive with lots of difficult kids, the response has been not to trouble her over homework undone, but to leave it because they clearly think it's too much hassle to follow it up and to put the school homework policy into action. Or the school policy on punctuality (she is often very, very late, if she manages to make it in at all). So she does no homework, turns up late, or doesn't turn up at all, and there appear to be no consequences.

Bonsoir - seriously, as the mother of one young child, you really have no idea at all what I'm dealing with. Seriously - if you have nothing helpful to add, go away. I would love for dd's school refusing/violence/rudeness NOT to be occupying a central role in our family life, but sadly it is, so inevitably I'm going to have an 'agenda'. And can I add - dd is not depressed, or lonely, or particularly unhappy. She is not mentally ill. She is popular, articulate, bright, much loved, and has lots of friends.

OP posts:
GoblinGranny · 04/06/2013 08:34

Sorry Mini, I didn't mean quite as completely as that.
I was meaning more with the conflicts at home, and with acknowledging that she's being rude at school and telling them that they have your support with detentions and sanctions, but not continuing it at home.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 08:37

Crikey. That's a bit harsh. I have brought up two teenage DSSs and have very widespread experience of family's of teens including ones with identical issues to yours .

Wishiwasanheiress · 04/06/2013 08:51

Mini

I popped on a while ago. Wow this has moved on hasn't it? I've read your last posts I haven't caught up from where I posted. You answered I think most of my questions. May I say you answered articulately and without prejudice IMO. You plainly have learnt an awful lot through this process technically from all the professionals which I feel some posters have either not expected or not appreciated.

Yours is an exceptional situation. Extraordinary and I hope this is taken well but I enjoyed your posts even though I sense deep pain because I felt I got a small sense of you, a mum who loves her daughter struggling along.

I have no practical advice. Reading your post I would be crass to try. I do however echo (I think your view) that you need to maintain hope and belief of what your daughter could be. She still can. She's very young. Who knows what she will be at 25? She could be anything.

Don't lose hope. I believe it's all still to play for. I wish you much luck and love and will watch quietly from the sidelines if I see you again. I'm here though. Sorry I can't do more. Hope it's enough. I really feel for you. Hugs.

GooseyLoosey · 04/06/2013 09:14

Mini, can I offer a small glimmer of hope for the future.

Dh sounds quite a lot like your dd. He was highly intelligent and in a family situation he felt he did not quite fit in. Different background, but I think he resented his parents for not being the same as the parents of the other children at his grammar school (ie middle class and asspirational as opposed to very working class as his parents were). It all went horribly wrong, as you describe and possibly worse - unltimately, dh was put in foster care for a while and then left home at 17.

You would never know any of this now. Dh realised that he needed to pull himself together and did an OU degree in his early 20s and then a PhD and now has a great job that he loves. He just had to get there in his own way and on his own terms.

It is interesting listening to his mother talk about his teen years - she accepts no responsibility for what happened. Dh sees that much of what happened was his fault but that there were also failures in MIL's parenting. She could not, in his view, accept him for who he was and wanted to be and was never able to meet him half way.

flow4 · 04/06/2013 09:15

Morning mini. Glad you are OK. :)

If you are sure this is a 'battle of wills', and not MH or drugs, then that gives you a bit more control of your situation. Because although you may not be able to control your DD's behaviour, you can control yours. You can - and it's hard, as Maryz, cory, myself and others can testify, but it's possible - learn to pick your battles and detach. Mary's advice a couple of years ago always sticks in my head: "Treat them like they're an annoying lodger".

You need to identity your 'bottom line' - the behaviour you absolutely cannot tolerate - and focus on that. Let most of, if not all, the other stuff go. It is my experience that you cannot win a fight with a teen who wants to fight. You just can't. That feels frustrating and even humiliating at first IME; but ultimately I came to realise that, at this stage, it is not about controlling their behaviour, it is about supporting them to learn to control themselves.

You don't need to 'bury' your hopes. If you feel you have to do that - if you feel you are giving up on her - then you must be hugely distressed and even bereaved. But the behaviour you describe is a long way from hopeless: she is going to school, not truanting; she's not taking drugs or alcohol; she's not having under-age sex; she's not self-harming; she has no other 'serious' mental health issues... That's all good.

Rather than giving up hope, try disinvesting... School may not be her thing. Or it may not be offering her what she needs. (If you do an advanced search for my name and 'disengaged school', you will find I have a lot to say on the subject! Bright kids who learn through doing rather than sitting still and listening are failed by our education system, and often get into a lot of trouble and conflict, until they leave.

With the personality you describe, it sounds highly unlikely that your DD will fail in life, though she may not do well in school. With her drive, strength of will, passion, intelligence and sheer bloody-mindedness, she sounds like she will do very well! Consider a moment: is it at all likely that a daughter of yours will amount to nothing?! Grin

It may 'just' be a matter of finding something that engages her. That's really hard to do at 13. IME, bright, strong-willed and unusual children quite often have troubled teenage years, because if they don't like school and don't have another passion like sport or music, there's not much else to engage them. Throughout 4 or 5 difficult years with DS1 (and a couple of desperate ones) I clung to the hope that the very qualities that made him so challenging to parent would turn out to be assets once he became an adult. And it's early days yet, but he has risen to the challenges he's met since leaving school and turning 18. It sounds to me like your DD will do the same. :)

But you do need to look after yourself! Those of us who have been through similar times with our DC will tell you that as a minimum, you need to do some nice things for yourself and get some counselling. Otherwise, by the time your DD grows up and sorts herself out, you (like me, Mary and cory at least) will be half-dead with stress and exhaustion!

GoblinGranny · 04/06/2013 09:21

You said that so much better than my blundering and incomprehensible effort Flow4. Grin
It's exactly what I intended to say. Thanks

cory · 04/06/2013 10:09

Mini, thanks for coming back to update us. Some of the things sound positive, others sound as if you still need to work through your disappointment and bitterness.

I also wonder if you need perhaps to unravel separate issues from each other, rather than seeing them as one miserable whole iyswim. To you they are all mixed up together: rudeness and school refusal and laziness and entitlement, present unpleasantness and future failure. Do they have to be? Is it not a bit risky to see it like that- giving less of an incentive for both of you to try to change any one small bit if you are overwhelmed by the thought of the massive whole?

I have never had to deal with the rudeness or aggression, but I have experience of seeing a bright child drop out of school and have had to think very carefully about how I handle that.
(In our case, there is a definite risk of suicide, which has helped to focus my mind: I'd rather see a live child with no GCSEs than have a beautiful certificate of A*s to be kept in memoriam).

The good news to me is that I am learning to take things day by day. What happens today doesn't have to be indicative of what happens tomorrow or in 10 years time.

A year ago, dd had virtually dropped out of school, she hid under the blankets and cut her wrists. Now she is sitting a reduced number of GCSEs and has been accepted by the college of her dreams. Two years ago she would hyperventilate at the thought of having to go on school transport: the other day she sorted out her own bus travel and made her own way down to the volunteering services and sat in the meeting to find out if there may be anything there to do when exams are over. She has found something she wants to do in life that she is prepared to push herself over.

We are not out of the woods by any stretch. But there is some kind of glimmering behind that furthest tree that might just, just be daylight.

What I do hope will come out of this for dd is added resilience. I see so many students who have sailed through life, always had top results, never encountered a real difficulty. They go to pieces when things get rough. I hope that dd will be able to say to herself: Ah, yes, I recognise this; it's a rough patch; I've been through them before, they don't last forever."

If she does manage this, if she does manage to do college and get into the highly specialised HE she is aiming for and make a go of it- then any time I have spent foreseeing her future failure will have been time wasted, time spent making us both unhappy that could have been more profitably occupied elsewhere. I'm not going to do that any more!

I am going to focus on what is unacceptable today. To you, it should probably be the aggression, to me it's dd staying in bed all day.

What flow said about your bottom line. And the bottom line should be about something that is unacceptable now, this moment, not something that might lead to something unacceptable many years later.

Nobody should have to live in fear in their own home. So concentrate on that. Don't burden yourselves with fears of things to come. They may never happen.

himalayan · 04/06/2013 10:10

Bonsoir, count yourself lucky. I've been threatened with physical violence on this thread for daring to stand up for the child who is the focus of this discussion, which says it all really.

cory · 04/06/2013 10:12

Another thought: I have gradually come to realise that dd seeming bubbly and sociable has very little to do with her actual mood: often it's a sign of anxiety. I am getting better at hearing the note of incipient hysteria underlying the laughter, but I notice that friends and family still genuinely think she is having a good time when she is dancing and singing round the house.

Bonsoir · 04/06/2013 10:12

Indeed Sad

Mintyy · 04/06/2013 10:13

There are some quite outstandingly wise, wonderful and supportive posts on this thread. Make me proud to be a Mumsnetter!

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