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Teenagers

Parenting teenagers has its ups and downs. Get advice from Mumsnetters here.

Father thumped teenage daughter 15

139 replies

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 08:31

Normally we are a pretty calm and happy family but my daughter (who is normally a great kid) managed to push all my husbands buttons on Sunday - they yelled at each other - then she stomped off to her room and he charged after her - he completely lost it. I jumped on him while he took a swipe at her with his fist (luckily missing). I separated them and she became hysterical. Afterwards - everything calmed down and apologies were given and I will stress that this has never happened before. Now she says the image of her father (who has never raised a hand to her before) is of him coming at her like and animal and she can never see him in the same way again. Also she says if she hadn't ducked she would have had a black eye. My other two children 14 and 10 also witnessed and condemed their father for this. I have to admit - I also saw a different completely irrational side of him - we've been happily married for 17 years.

I guess I don't know how to take this forward as there will always be this stain now - he knows it must never happen again and that he was very stupid but I do feel he has marred the childhood of all three children and diminished himself in their (and my eyes). He a man of deep feelings and not good at articulating them and I think this is what happened. Everybody knows this was really wrong.

I think I'm just looking for advice on how to move forward as a family after this.

OP posts:
RationalBrain · 05/06/2012 08:36

What does your dh think he should do?

RandomMess · 05/06/2012 08:36

No idea Sad

Sounds like he would be helped by learning to talk about his feelings?

ella47 · 05/06/2012 08:37

Seeing as you said she's a great kid normally I'm assuming this isn't him snapping after months of unreasonable behaviour from her so to me it seems like a plain and simple betrayal of your dc's trust. They trusted him to be the adult and not to lash out and he broke that, and now they'll be trusting you to keep them safe so you need to really explicitly show you're going to live up to that. Sit all the dc's down and ask them what they think should be done, reiterate that it was not their fault, the blame MUST solely lie with your husband because he lashed out, regardless of what they may have done to 'provoke' him.

If the dc's don't feel safe around him then he should be prepared to move out for a while, go to anger management, anything that will make them feel safer while the relationship is rebuilt - just the same as would have to happen after an affair for you. If he's not willing to do whatever is needed then that's a massive warning sign that this wasn't a one-off mistake.

Thistledew · 05/06/2012 08:43

Does your daughter get a say as to whether she has to continue to share a home with a man who had to be physically restrained from hitting her? As an adult, I would choose not to live with a man who behaved in that way. You and your husband should be asking your daughter what steps she needs to feel safe in her own home, and making changes if necessary.

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 08:55

I agree with you ella - that there is a break down of trust issue here - she can't believe he would ever have done this. As I say this has never happened before - I think they are such good children on the whole - he's not used to being crossed and doesn't know how to deal with it. He reckons she spoke to him as if he was a dog - I have to say I would never have dared to speak to my own father like that and I would have probably received a slap for doing so. But this was such unbridled rage and so out of the blue. Everybody is pretty much acting as if nothing has happened now - he knows it must never be repeated and if it is the consequences will be more serious. I think everybody is just feeling pretty miserable because it's their under the surface.

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hattifattner · 05/06/2012 08:57

I think the whole scenario needs to be unpicked. Your DD must face up to whatever her behaviour was that was so enraging. Your DH must face up to the awful realisation that others have seen, and are scared, or another side of him. He needs to look at anger management strategies.

As much as it dismays me to think that your DD was in any way to blame for this, she needs to understand that provocation is a defence in law, and that her behaviour had unforeseen consequences. This in no way excuses your DHs behaviour, as he is an adult. But to allow her to be victim only in this scenario is wrong - she poked a sleeping bear, and must accept her part in what happened.

As for your DH, I think he needs to step back from the situation and look at why he lashed out so angrily - what was it that sparked that reaction. He needs to understand why he did what he did, so that the issue can be resolved. Was it a lack of respect? A build up of antagonism over the weekend? A few too may drinks? Stress at work coming into the home? A fight with a mate or relative that she became the trigger point to?

Get the family around a table and unpick everything with you as neutral referee...you must not take sides. Let everyone talk, one at a time, no interruptions, about what happened and how they felt about it before, during and after.

AThingInYourLife · 05/06/2012 09:08

"Now she says the image of her father (who has never raised a hand to her before) is of him coming at her like and animal and she can never see him in the same way again."

Good.

Maybe now she'll realise he's a human being who has his limits, and that pushing someone beyond their limits is something you have to grow out of as you become an adult.

Has she had a conversation with her father about the incident? Has he apologised to her one-on-one and explained what happened?

Sometimes things go a bit nutty when there are teenagers in the house.

If this was out of character for everyone, no way would I be escalating it by asking DH to move out.

Nor would I be encouraging a bratty 15 year old who spoke to her father like he was an animal to play the poor innocent victim in all of this.

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 09:09

Hatti - I think there is a work issue here - as there is a boss who yells at everybody and is very authoritarian. He often jokes about his bad behaviour and I actually said to him afterwards - I can't believe you behaved just like your boss. Maybe work stress but no alcohol or other arguments involved I think it was purely he felt disrespected and that he gives a lot and gets little thanks. Having said that when I see the behaviour of some of our friends' children this was pretty mild. The basis of this argument was that he said you do this - end of conversation and she yelled in typical teenage fashion that it was her decision she was an adult and he was to shut up and leave her alone! Having said that his reaction was well over the top.

I think maybe they should sit and discuss together - exactly how they felt and she needs to raise the trust and safety issues as I don't think he sees it that deeply. He knows it was wrong but he sees it as a one off and over whereas she (and especially her sister) are traumatised.

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confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 09:17

Athing - thank you - that does help put it a bit in perspective - I did tell her nobody's perfect - and I don't want to escalate it you're right. I just want it behind us for the sake of everybody in the family. I think maybe I'm guilty of taking her side too much on this (well he lost my sympathy when he went for her) but I did speak to her about respect. I maybe need to add that everybody has their limits.

He has apologised to her and she to him. I think I came on here because I'm still feeling pretty miserable about the whole thing and I don't really want to involve friends or family.

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AThingInYourLife · 05/06/2012 09:19

"she yelled in typical teenage fashion that it was her decision she was an adult and he was to shut up and leave her alone!"

That's bratty. Does she normally get away with bullshit like that?

It sounds like neither of them has recognised their own part in what happened, and each is focusing on the wrongs perpetrated by the other.

That needs to change, quick smart.

It was very wrong of your DH to swing at his daughter.

She should not be so rude to either of her parents.

Do they each understand what will have to happen if this becomes a pattern?

AThingInYourLife · 05/06/2012 09:21

I can see why you're still upset.

This is a big deal, and your husband (and to a lesser extent your daughter) needs to recognise that.

RationalBrain · 05/06/2012 09:26

I don't think you can take your dd's side too much tbh, who else is going to?. Yes, she might need to look at her own behaviour, but she's still a child. Your dh is not, and it concerns me that you say he doesn't realise how upset the children are. He had to be physically restrained from assaulting his daughter, not a smack but a full on punch - does he not think he might at the very least, need to look at anger management strategies to make sure it never happens again? Is he not concerned that his children are now afraid of him? Brushing this under the carpet is not a good option for his relationship with them.

I'm not suggesting you 'escalate' the situation, but neither can you just put it down to teenage behaviour. In any case, what you describe (your dd's behaviour) really doesn't sound that bad. Your dh on the other hand...

FallenCaryatid · 05/06/2012 09:28

He needs to recognise that he was pushed beyond his limits and lost control, and that he must not resort to physical violence again. If that means him walking out of the house and leaving you to deal with the situation until he has control again, that's what he needs to do.
If he needs outside help to manage his anger, then that's something you should all support. Violence is never acceptable as a discipline strategy. Or a response to being goaded.
But your DD also needs to realise that she's living in a house with other people, does she talk to you in the same way, make you feel like a dog? What do you do when she pushes your buttons and makes you angry? Are there any sanctions for being a foul teenager?

FoofFighter · 05/06/2012 09:37

So what if she pushed his buttons and was bratty at him, there is NO excuse for him to be violent towards her! Replace DD with the wife/partner and would there be the advice given on this thread? No, it'd be leave the bastard! Anecdotally, if a man is violent once, he will be again.

Am I the only person on this thread that thinks he needs to go??

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 09:39

Fallen - I will suggest anger management if anything like this ever happens again. Normally it's not an issue - which is why I think it's all the more shocking. This does not happen between DD and me because we'll discuss although she will get tearful quite quickly. She and DH however are very alike in character ie. totally stubborn and he will try to impose his point of view. I do think she's extremely hormonal at the moment and will overreact or break in to tears at the slightest little thing - I have explained this to DH - unfortunately after the event. I have also explained to dh - that everything can be talked about - he of all people should understand that having viewpoints imposed on you is really annoying.

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confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 09:41

Foof - he's never touched me or anyone else until now. I wouldn't want to tear everything apart because of a one off - I don't think any us including DD would want that.

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RationalBrain · 05/06/2012 09:44

So you're happy for it to happen again before you look at strategies to make sure it doesn't happen again?

That makes no sense. You seem to be happy to collude with your dh in sweeping this under the carpet. Sorry, I'm not normally so brutally honest, but this is important.

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 09:47

Rational - I've told him he's never to touch any of them again. I think he understands this.

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RationalBrain · 05/06/2012 09:52

But there's nothing that he has said or done that shows he realises the seriousness of this, or how it has affected his children. If he was that out of control, do you think he'll stop next time just because you said he shouldn't lose control? The point is he lost control, he is beyond rational thought at that point. He needs to be able to stop before he gets to that point.

This isn't really about you (although I really feel for how upset you must be right now), it's about him taking the consequences of his actions like a responsible adult and parent, not ignoring it.

AThingInYourLife · 05/06/2012 09:53

But presumably he always knew he was not supposed to be attacking any of them?

So your saying that doesn't mean a lot.

He needs to accept how dangerous his loss of control was.

What if he had hit her and given her a black eye?

Isn't he horrified at how badly wrong this could have gone?

He really needs to take this as seriously as you are. It is a really big deal.

LST · 05/06/2012 09:54

I agree with athing. I was vile as a teenager and all I needed was my dad to loose it. He didn't hit me but the look he gave me out the fear of god in me.

confusedandmiserable · 05/06/2012 10:04

athink - I said exactly that - that he could have given her a black eye - I think he understands that and I agree that the consequences would have been horrific. He was almost in tears on Sunday when he realised what he had done. He is not a man though who is going to sit and talk about his feelings and although I think he understands the seriousness and is upset about what he has done his way of dealing with it is to try to put it behind him and get on with life.

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Wilding · 05/06/2012 10:11

I can't believe the number of people on this thread who are saying that she needs to realise that you can't just wind people up.

What about if you lost your temper and said something stupid to your husband, or your boss? Would you accept that it was your fault if they turned round and punched you in the face? If this was a wife who was writing about what her husband had done everyone would be telling her to kick him out, and rightly.

I really feel for your daughter in this, confused. Teenagers and adults argue and push each others buttons; this is normal. Trying to assault your daughter is not. You say that he wants to put all this behind him and get on with his life - of course he bloody does, this means that there have been no consequences to his actions whatsoever, everyone is just going to shut up about it.

It doesn't matter one bit whether he doesn't want to sit and talk about his feelings. By not taking this any further you are essentially saying that what happened is OK. If your daughter had a boyfriend who did this to her, would you be sitting back and saying 'well, he's sorry, let's just forget about it?' I bloody hope not.

Mabelface · 05/06/2012 10:17

I'm with Wilding on this one. If it was a husband doing this to his wife, there'd be cries of "leave the bastard before it escalates".

flow4 · 05/06/2012 10:17

Firstly, I'd say you can listen to opinions here, but you need to make your own decisions. Everyone has their own 'bottom line' in families and relationships, and you need to know and act on yours, not anyone else's. MN is great for advice, but it can also make you feel you should take one particular course of action; but in fact you need to work out what's best for you and your family. :)

Now my tuppence-worth...

There will no doubt be people along telling you that you should throw your husband out; but you've already said you want to "move forward as a family", so I'm assuming that is your starting point...

If everyone knows this was a colossal mistake, then I think that makes the situation a bit easier... How do you generally deal with mistakes in your family? I have tried to bring my children up to know that people are 'allowed' to make mistakes, but they need to learn from them, and they need to take the consequences of them, and if other people are involved, they may need to act to put them right... If everyone in your family believes this, then I agree with Hattifattner: you can sit down as a family and resolve this.

I also agree with H that your daughter needs to learn and is not just a victim in this situation. You don't say how old she is, but you give the other kids' ages, so I assume older than 14. She is not really a 'kid' any more, and it will be hugely helpful to her through the rest of her life if she learns that if you disrespect people, and 'push all their buttons' (which you say she did) some of them will lose their temper.

You might like to examine/challenge your own opinion that your husband has "marred the childhood of all three children". If he has been, to date, a loving and caring father, and this is out of character, and acknowledged by everyone as a big mistake, then I can see absolutely no reason why their childhoods should be 'marred'. They'll be shocked, yes. They'll remember it, yes. But they won't be damaged by witnessing their father lose his temper. However, they might be influenced and disturbed by you telling them they should be disturbed, so be very careful about that.

You say your husband is "a man of deep feelings and not good at articulating them" so I'd just like to point out that anger/rage are feelings too. If he doesn't usually express his feelings, and he has now, and he gets the message that this isn't 'allowed', then he's more likely to repress emotions in future. You might say it's a good idea to repress anger (certainly we all get very mixed messages about that) but it's hard to repress one emotion without repressing them all: if he's 'not allowed' to express anger, the chances are he'll be less good at expressing his love, too. :(

I'm not saying it's OK for your husband to rage and hit people. (You very specifically said this was out of character, and I'd be voicing very different opinions if you hadn't). It does seem possible that he needs some support with dealing with anger, especially since you have other kids who will no doubt 'push his buttons' over the years to come... The difficult thing about anger is that it needs to be expressed, but without hurting anyone... And the difficult thing about teenagers is that they can make you very, very angry - sometimes accidentally, but also sometimes deliberately. I have sometimes thought that the reason we struggle so much with teenagers in our society is that we are a bit rubbish, generally, at dealing with anger... Hmm Anyway, some kind of parenting course might help you both :)

Finally, I'd just like to say that I am someone who has never tolerated violence of any kind in any relationship - and I have always thought that if someone acted violently towards me, that would be the end of it. Then a few months ago, my own son 'lost his temper' - several times - and he is much bigger and stronger than me, and it was very frightening. If he had been anyone other than my son, I think I would have thrown him out. But when it came to it, I realised the 'equation' wasn't as simple as "no violence or you're out". Personally, I found my bottom line was "no violence or I'll have you arrested" - and I did - but I let him back home; and actually, I find other things - esp. breaches of trust and disrespect - are harder to forgive than a loss of temper.

I do understand how an incident like this can shock you so much, and challenge your 'core values' so fundamentally. It takes time to work out what you feel and what you should do.

These sorts of situations are extremely complicated, and only the people inside a relationship or family can know all the ins and outs/pros and cons, and can decide what needs to happen. It may well change how people feel about each other - that is one of the consequences of 'big mistakes' - and some of those changes may not be good. But long-term, some changes can be positive, even in miserable situations like this - for example if your daughter learns not to 'push buttons', and your husband learns to express his anger in a more controlled way, and you learn that you are a better diplomat and problem solver than you ever imagined! :) Good luck!