children's clothes with skulls on...WHY?

[sausagepastie]

I can't understand it - it's horrible, isn't it? Or is it just me being old fashioned?

The last thing I want is an image of a skull on my son's clothes.

Witty example of skull art beloved by some on this thread

no, no skulls have absolutely nothing to do with mass graves or massacre victims

I still don't think "massacres" when I see them.

Well now I might, since you've been labouring the point so much.

But before, I'd be more likely to think of this:

www.infovisual.info/03/019_en.html

or maybe this:

media-2.web.britannica.com/eb-media/71/74271-004-8BC49794.jpg

The second link isn't even clothes, it's a skateboard!

Can't see much wrong with the first, although I'd prefer it without the pink bow (and so would my sons, probably)

The whole point is that they are offensive to some...that's why they came to be on teenagers' clothes. It's filtered down the same way the playboy shit has...it may be slightly different in how it is shocking, daring or anti establishment but it's still related.

It's an 'ironic' thing, a backlach against some of the pink and 'frills' mentioned as an antithesis by those who can't seem to see a middle ground...it's patronising in the extyreme to suggest those of us who dislike 'ironic' or just plain tasteless images of death on our kids' clothes must instead favour 'sanitised', pink and frilly rubbish which actually I have almost zero tolerance for either.

If that's the only argument you can throw at us then it's a bit sad really.

I stand by my thought that it is rather like dressing a child in miniature footie gear or trainers, for that 'cute' effect, because the stuff is out of context therefore 'ironic' and a bit funny.

It is in many ways simply a matter of personal taste...some people like it, some don't, but it makes my teeth itch

A lot of things are offensive to some.

"Is it really so hard to understand that repeating patterns of skulls reminds one of photos of neatly stacked skulls?"

It isn't hard to understand that they remind you of photos of neatly stacked skulls because you've told us repeatedly, but you seem to find it impossible to understand that they don't remind me, nor plenty of other people for that matter.

TBH I don't necessarily connect stacks of skulls with mass murder, and this despite having spent a lot of my degree studying genocide.

As an aside, what's wrong with trying to be cool? Not that I am (cool, nor trying to be) but good grief, I'm pleased not everyone is as hopelessy frumpy as I am. Or are you only allowed to be cool if you're under 25?

I wouldn't bat an eyelid at a teenager or adult wearing skull clothing or paraphernalia (well I might do a double-take if it was my octogenarian MIL I suppose).

It's the juxtaposition of baby / pre-schooler and skull imagery which jars. In the same kind of way as seeing a toddler with a tattoo would jar (although a tattoo is a much more extreme example obviously).

"But dont try to pretend that a dear little "caricature" skull is not offensive, because YOU think that it isn't."

Stop being so patronising. Just because you don't like it doesn't mean my opinion is any less valid. just because you don't like them doesn't mean everyone agrees with you nor does it mean you are right.

"Soupdragon, it is not just me who finds these things off putting"

Er, no and it's not just me who doesn't find the off putting. What is your point exactly?

I do think it's pretty odd to see a cartoony skull motif and think "genocide". Halloween must be a nightmare.

OTOH there's a William Morris print often used on V&A merchandise that reminds me of gas masks and with a crazy mind-leap, nuclear holocaust. That really is just me though, I think.

Soupdragon, YOU were the first one to emphasise the YOU when talking about my point of view. So why do you get annoyed when I emphasised it as well? Naturally niether of us is alone in her opinion.

But opinions are also based on cultural norms. For example, the pattern of skulls that I linked to below, is a graphical representation of a view down onto a pile of skulls, within the commonly accepted boundaries of western art. This is not opinion, it is fact. We expect a sophisticated interpretation of line drawings - think of comics, or cartoons, where all sorts of things are represented with simple lines.
(It is not, for example, a representation of evolution, because the skulls are identical, and you'd expect to see some clues, eg the skulls in different stages of development.)
I don't understand why the pro -skullers keep trying to deny this. Why not admit this fact, and say that it is your opinion, that a pile of skulls is not tasteless?

Otter, nothing against being cool, but in my opinion (just my opinion...), it's naff to do so by wearing cartoon pictures of dead people, and especially naff after you're supposed to be grown up. Goodness, even dd1 cringed at the skull-decorated bra and pants that we saw!

I think my original starting point for the thread, before I rationalised it a bit etc as you do, was that those coats are so darn hideous. Theyr eally are some of the ugliest garments I have ever seen. They have no redeeming qualities. The colours, the design,the skulls...nope, nothing nice at all.
the boden pjs on the other hand are quite attractive.

I emphasised it because you used the phrase "reminds one of..." rather than the personal "reminds me of..." One implies everyone, the other means just you. Unless you are the Queen.

"For example, the pattern of skulls that I linked to below, is a graphical representation of a view down onto a pile of skulls, within the commonly accepted boundaries of western art. This is not opinion, it is fact."

No, it is an opinion. I see a pile of flat 2 dimensional images. Images which actually bear more resemblance to a sci-fi space helmet. If you see Pol Pot or Rwanda... [shrug]

But really, I can't be arsed any more. You are clearly right and everyone else is wrong, ill educated, not an artist or not interested in current affairs.

Soupdragon, you forgot naff, haven't grown up yet, desparately trying to be cool, aggressive parkers Although the latter is just people who have gotten a tattoo.

I, on the other hand, think you are entitled to your opinion without passing any judgement on your personality, tastes or interests, nighbynight.

still not gonna buy the coat

Agree sausagepastie, the coat is hideous. Not just because of the skulls though, I think they are incidental to its hideousness.

Well, Soupdragon, I'm sure I could link to a dozen images of piles of skulls from cartoon art, that look exactly like that pattern that I linked to under. And you'd still be swearing blind that it was just my opinion that the pattern looks like a pile of skulls.

petisa, I said that my opinion of people with tattooed skulls is just my opinion...am now picturing you covered in skull tatoos. Will not apologise, as in your book thats not an insult. But I reserve my right to be as judgey as I want about people who park in MY private parking space!!!

sausage, I agree about the design. I think skulls would be more acceptable if the majority of the designs werent so crap. But I do think the skull is hard to work into a design, it unbalances everything because it draws too much attention to the eyes.

"But I do think the skull is hard to work into a design, it unbalances everything because it draws too much attention to the eyes"

What a load of tosh, many designs do the same, Manga stuff to name but one, how its executed depends entirely on how good the designer is.

though for the record, I do agree that the clothing links posted ARE all pretty hideous, as is the naff skull with the cutesy bow but like others have already said, thats nothing to do with the skulls, I'm sure the coat would look just as hideous with an alternative logo

A pile of PEOPLE on a tee-shirt may look like a mass grave but would that mean that the image of a PERSON on a tee-shirt = morbid and offensive?
same with shoes
spectacles
skulls

"I do think it's pretty odd to see a cartoony skull motif and think "genocide". Halloween must be a nightmare"

I am loving that post.

Lol, no, not an insult to me! I did get a weird image of me covered in skulls when I read your post though, was most amusing. Fwiw I don't have a tattoo of a skull, but would like one, either of a Tibetan skull or a Mexican sugar skull in colour. But there are so many others I'd like first - for dp to get a move-on with my Japanese phoenix on my arm, I'd love a Japanese dragon on my back with cherry blossoms, a koi fish and lotus flowers on my other arm... (sensing a theme here?) I love Japanese art, it's so decorative, delicate, and timeless.

I think the coat is hideous too sausagepastie!

And fwiw dd doesn't even have any skulls on her clothes, just a few black t-shirts, one with a guitar on it and stripy leggings, that sort of thing. But I wouldn't mind if she did.

I love japanese art too. I am old enough to have gone to the Great Japan Exhibition at the royal academy, it was wonderful and I still have the souvenirs I bought.

at last i have found somewhere to buy nice children's clothes without a motif in sight. my friend brought me back from overseas but can now buy here chateaudesable.co.uk

Very expensive though nikthechick!

I like skulls, but only in a cartoony way. The graphic pics are a bit gruesome.