If skinny jeans and ankle boots are frumpy?

[BarrelOfOtters]

Wtf are you supposed to wear.?

I have never seen a definition of 'flattering' or 'it suits me' that didn't essentially boil down to 'makes me look thinner / younger' or 'shows off my figure', which is fair enough but I've also never seen a plausible explanation of why that's superior to being interested in fashion.

Skinny jeans and ankle boots don't exactly look cutting edge these days but it's the shape that gives me the most confidence in winter.

In summer I feel happier with a slightly looser trouser shape, bare feet and sandals. I'd love to wear that all year round but I live in Scotland.

There's no point telling short to medium height women to adopt trainers if that isn't their natural home. Trainers add a stone to my appearance so if I'm making any kind of effort, it's a hard pass. There isn't a new, flattering trainer that elongates legs and makes jeans fit better. Influencers don't count, they've got hours each day to spend on hair and makeup to make the swathes of outsize clothing look 'intentional'.

@Floisme buf don’t you shop first and foremost with your body shape in mind? I have a very small waist but a biggish arse so can look great in something with a really neat waist that’s forgiving over the hips. Put me in a satin bias cut dress though and oh dear. Similarly high waisted wide leg trousers are fab on me while skinnies are a disaster.

I always thought flattering meant this too. How else is the word used?!

I can't speak for Flo but for me don’t you shop first and foremost with your body shape in mind?

The answer is absolutely not. I shop for clothes I like the look of. If the designer makes them in my size and they fit, then they "suit my body shape"

Nothing is going to make me look taller, thinner or younger but wearing an item of clothing which caught my eye will make me feel good.

Not any more. I used to, in fact I was a devotee of all the body shape rules but after a while I was bored senseless. More seriously, I also realised it was making me hypercritical of my body. I was seeing flaws that no-one else even noticed and I still have a thing about my absolutely normal thighs as a result of that phase.

I won't pretend I've forgotten them entirely and sometimes, when something doesn't look like I expected it too, I might think, 'Oh yeah that'll be because I have a high waist' or whatever. But they absolutely do not govern how I dress any more and I've gone back to enjoying clothes for their own sake.

My 17 year old and 27 year old would disagree.

I've brought two new pairs this year and looking forward to wearing them with bootleg/flares & straight leg.

I've been wearing black skinny jeans and biker boots this winter.

And what Castle said!

The younger women I know are wearing wide leg combat trousers with trainers.

I suspect you are probably both lucky - if you’re a very definite pear shape like me it really dictates what I buy. Not least so I can get clothes to actually fit.

I'm 52 and not interested in what people's teenage daughters deem current. I have young women in my own family, I love them dearly but I don't look to them for style tips. If I wanted to know what the young team were wearing, I'd go to tiktok, not mumsnet.

No I'm a pear shape - I remember! I think fit is a separate matter.

I was answering the poster who said trainers were Mumsy. They aren't, I think they look good and quite retro on the right person.

@MorrisZapp I have two late teen/twenties daughters, and they do give me style tips! Not to look like them though, they haven't suggested combats, but just some good tips on both flattering and reasonably current clothes. I usually wear baggier tops and one of my daughters pointed out that hiding in things makes you look bigger and doesn't suit the baggier bottom-half, I switched to tighter tops (where my body can be seen) and I do look better and feel just fine. I think there's a lot of body confidence amongst some young people that can be refreshing if you have just been thinking of what's 'flattering' as in hiding for a long while, especially if a bit bigger.

The dictionary definition of "frumpy" is "dowdy, drab, old-fashioned" and I think Kate fits that. She has many wonderful qualities, I'm sure, but she has no eye for style and her clothes are unfashionable and thoroughly uninspired. It would be more obvious were she not so thin, which gives her a larger margin of error; regrettably, I think body shape does contribute to how frumpy you look.

Nor is it about age or sticking only to what's "in fashion": look at Iris Apfel. Incredible style, very little to do with what the kids, or even the thirtysomethings, are wearing these days.

I don't have any teenagers in the family any more but I get inspiration from 20/30-something nieces and friends of adult children, just as I do from photos of the generation that went before me (none of them alive any more). Why wouldn't I?

I can always remember my Mum wearing jeans and she was going out. My younger Brother said to her you look great Mum but can I just turn your jeans up different. She looked much more on trend and she looked better.

So I wouldn't always dismiss a younger persons advice on fashion. I asked my SD to help me buy but some trainers. She is very stylish though.

Take inspiration from wherever inspires you! I don't expect many mumsnet users on S&B are hoping to dress like teenagers though, so I don't really know why so many mums of teens on here use their fashionable daughters as the 'last word'. I approach dressing very differently now to how I did as a teenager.

Nobody is dressing like a teenager. You seem very anti trainers.

Nobody is usimg the advice as the last word. I look at lots of things for advice and then wear what suits me.

Just ignore the comments about young people if it is annoying you.

I love trainers, but they don't love my figure. I have a really good, comfy pair that look as good as I could expect from a sports shoe. Can't wait for summer though so I can get my feet out and look carefree!

Fair enough, I just don't understand not taking an interest in what teenagers (or come to that, any age group) wear, that's assuming you're interested in clothes in the first place. It doesn't mean you have to copy them but they're a source of ideas (I do wish they'd be bit more original sometimes but that's another matter.)

IME, teenage style tends to be very much about safety. It varies a bit more by aesthetic these days, but often there is a fairly short and rigid list of things that are OK for the aesthetic and things that are Not OK and clothes are less about self-expression and more about making sure you're in the Safe Space. That's not what I dress for. A teenager might be naturally stylish or simply doing a good job of exemplifying a look that's current and fresh, but the same goes for a person of any age.

The dictionary definition of "frumpy" is "dowdy, drab, old-fashioned" and I think Kate fits that

Crikey.

I don't think she ever looks dowdy or drab. Old fashioned maybe, but never dowdy and drab. She always looks elegant.

Fair enough, I just don't understand not taking an interest in what teenagers (or come to that, any age group) wear

I'm not interested in what teenagers wear. I'm 65 and wear colours that suit me and styles that suit my body shape. I deplore fast fashion so I try to update my current wardrobe with one or two new pieces every year.

I have a pair of thin cotton combat trousers that I love and have worna lot over the last two summers, but it is too cold and too wet to wear them yet.

It strikes me that there are two schools of thought on mumsnet as to what is considered frumpy.

The fashionistas think that anything that isn't in fashion is frumpy, and are reluctant to state what they wear when challenged.

The rest think that anything that is dowdy, drab coloured, shapeless, badly fitting and basically is unflattering on the wearer is frumpy.

I hate the term, but I am more inclined to go with statement 2 on this.

I prefer to look stylish and elegant rather than fashionable.

OK. I'm interested in what they wear because I love clothes. I'm interested in what men wear too.

I'm also interested in fashion and I've still not seen anyone explain why choosing clothes because they make your arse look smaller / your thighs look thinner or take 5 years off your face is so widely accepted as a superior approach.

I've also not described anyone or anything as 'frumpy'. Nor have I posted on the thread that I imagine kicked off this one.