Strange ideas about age, ageism on S&B.

[Pangolin44]

A bit of a mangled thread title, but I'm always slightly agog when it comes to age on this board.

So many 'Can I wear X at Y age?' threads. So many comments about 'age-appropriate' attire. Mutton-dressed-as-lamb always rears its head. Granny shoes, frumpy coats, 'I'm 35 am I too old for mini-skirts?'.

And don't get me started on hair! Bejeysus.

And this is women, talking to other women.

It makes me sad more than anything else, people are obviously posting on this board because they're interested in clothes and style, why close off any area of style because of age? The thought that women think they can't express themselves physically due to an imagined arbitrary cut-off.

I would love to free women from this idea, what's the worst that can happen?

I see this board completely differently to that!
I see people expressing an opinion on what is posted but also telling others to wear whatever they feel good in.

I agree, OP. So much banging on about things being 'aging'. 'Oh don't get your hair cut short - it really ages you' What a load of absolute rubbish. What ages you is getting older (which is better than the alternative)!

Really? That's interesting @Hucklead. I do see people saying 'wear what makes you feel good', which is good and right. But that's an anodyne answer, the S&B equivalent of 'be kind'

I'm absolutely an advocate of 'wear what the fuck you fancy', but I don't think that's intrinsically a helpful answer to an 'Am I too old to wear?' question.

Because that question comes from a societal insecurity around messages what women should or shouldn't wear once they reach a certain age. Or why would the question be asked? The feeling is filtering in from somewhere.

Strange ideas about age on MN. Full stop!

True @milkyaqua, someone was talking about their 'elderly parents' and sofa-beds the other day.

The 'elderly parents' were in their 60's!!!!

Yes @Fairislefandango I saw that too, apparently we should all get a shoulder-length bob.

Because that's where it's at.

@milkyaqua

Strange ideas about age on MN. Full stop!

Strange ideas about lots of things! I do enjoy spending time here though.

I agree @Pangolin44. I’m also quite confused by the whole thing, because if anything I find getting older quite liberating when it comes to fashion. I care much less about what others think. I also love seeing people significantly older than me in fabulous clothes. It’s good to see people having fun with fashion at every age (I hope that doesn’t sound patronising).

Absolutely @IvorCutler. That is where I am sartorially. I'm 49 so not even that old. I'm early Middle-age.

I'm still wearing clothes that make me feel amazing.

Do you think perhaps that ‘aging’ is often lazy shorthand for ‘looks as though you’ve given up’? And by ‘given up’ I mean stopped having fun with your appearance; chosen invisibility; switched off from ‘fashion’, whatever that means to you. I’m conscious (at 53) that what I regard as age-appropriate (ie pretty much anything) is very different from what my mother would have felt comfortable in at the same age; and I think ‘aging’ would be an appropriate way of describing her outfit choices. I haven’t explained myself very well but I hope the gist is clear.

I think actually the pressure comes from outside and this board is usually quite sensible about age (& size) related questions.

I’m 40 and any worries about exiting the house in e.g. leggings and a shirt tank top are not coming from mumsnet.

Of course there's ageism on this board. Every other thread is about Botox, facelifts... anything to make sure you DON'T look your age

So no one wants to look their age, and if you do, well... someone on here knows someone who does a good job with Botox, you'd never notice 🙄

Except most people in their 40s are supposed to have wrinkles and not a shiny forehead.

(Are you wearing leggings @WitchesAbroad?)

I think there's more than one thing going on.

We've got the casual ageism where 'old lady' and 'granny' are used as synonyms for ugly or unstylish. I'd say they usually get challenged - sometimes they take the point and sometimes not.

But we've also got posters trying to get to grips with changing looks and bodies, whose favourite clothes suddenly don't look the same any more, who've lost all their confidence and for whom, 'Wear what you like' is, quite frankly, not helpful. I sometimes get the feeling that younger posters don't want to hear it but it's real and we need to be able to talk about it on here.

And speaking of not helpful, I think there's a lot of denial on here too. That whole 'age is a state of mind' thing. Give Over, It's real and, at 65, I feel very much in the foothills. Quite a lot of friends my age have painful, debilitating health conditions that might not be terminal but they're not curable either or sometimes not even treatable, and while I didn't see that thread, yes they would struggle with a sofa bed.

@Pangolin44

Really? That's interesting *@Hucklead*. I do see people saying 'wear what makes you feel good', which is good and right. But that's an anodyne answer, the S&B equivalent of 'be kind'

I'm absolutely an advocate of 'wear what the fuck you fancy', but I don't think that's intrinsically a helpful answer to an 'Am I too old to wear?' question.

Because that question comes from a societal insecurity around messages what women should or shouldn't wear once they reach a certain age. Or why would the question be asked? The feeling is filtering in from somewhere.

This resonates with me. I have always been very confident in my clothes choices , and not cared at all what anyone else thought. Now, with a fatter body due to menopause, lockdown etc, and well into my fifties, I suddenly have this fear, totally new, of looking ridiculous. Where has this come from ? I feel it is the drip drip drip of comments from men and young women, that make fun of middle aged women, their bodies, and their style, and shame them for wearing things that are unconventional or considered youthful. So I now walk around feeling angry and resentful that there is this weird “can I still wear pink? Florals? Etc” inner narrative, that I want to ignore but somehow can’t. It feels like shame and embarrassment, but why ?

I know it wasn't meant in any way unkindly, but that thread or threads on "Old Lady things" that posters loved (some of it was Miss Marple-y stuff, but most of it was in fact just classics, so why it had that title...) is one example from S&B.

I couldn't recall the actual title (turns out it was "Old ladies are actually experts at life, and we are fools"), but a quick AS of the term "old lady" plus thread titles plus S&B brings up a trove of threads by posters concerned about looking (at 35 or 40!) like an "old lady"!

@SirVixofVixHall, don't do that!! Your comment actually made me a bit tearful.

I was at family therapy today (I know, don't judge), and my children and husband acknowledged that although I am a very approachable person, I look 'frightening' to others. I'm tall, have an angular face and dress to suit myself.

They meant it with love, but 'people are scared of you Pangolin' feels itchy. I don't want people to be frightened of a woman who chooses how she looks.

I'm not feminine, and I do get younger women stopping me and commenting. So who's scared?

Quite @milkyaqua, I remember those threads.

It wasn't the sofa bed that was the problem @Floisme, it was the 'elderly' at 65.

65 ain't elderly.

I'm 40 and wore leggings today for a sport related activity, and feel zero shame .

I agree, for all the feminism in the world, we are still very bound by what's "appropriate" etc

If YOU Feel good wear it

And yes my arse is fabulous!

I agree OP. Don't get me started on the posters who are worrying about "aging" when they hit their 30s.

I disagree with the poster who said give over on the "age is a state of mind thing". I firmly believe it is. My DM was two years older than my DF and in attitude they were poles apart. He has been thinking about his funeral for years, I firmly believe she never gave dying a thought, right up until it happened at age 88. She always seemed to me to be years younger than him, even though she had debilitating arthritis, and it was simply because she didn't let her age define her.

(and at nearly 63 I could easily sleep on the floor, a sofa bed would be a breeze!)

Nothing wrong with being concerned with ageing at 30, the earlier one starts to care for one's skin properly, the better it looks at 50 etc. and therefore the better one feels when hitting the'foothills'.
By the time one is 50 it's way too late to achieve anything discernible in this department.
It's not the clothes, it's the person wearing them that determines how old/young they feel and look.

Nothing wrong with being concerned with ageing at 30, the earlier one starts to care for one's skin properly, the better it looks at 50 etc. and therefore the better one feels when hitting the'foothills'.

I never said there was anything wrong with caring for one's skin properly - I started to do that long before reaching 30 - but to talk about "aging" at 30 is ridiculous. I also imagine my version of caring for one's skin is vastly different to someone who is concerned about aging when they are in fact young.

OP I'm 35 and just bought a mini-skirt, it looks great

I think the problem is that your views on your age/ageing change as you age. an example is the above comment
OP I'm 35 and just bought a mini-skirt, it looks great

Well to me 35 is young, not very young but young and you can wear whatever you want - hilarious that I presume poster thinks that's quite old for a mini skirt.

I'm nearly 70.

There such deep-grained societal ideals/pressures from the moment we are born that it's hard to shake those off. The phrases to which you refer are how many women talk to themselves..I know I do. Then try and give myself a shake!

There has been such a real shift over the last generation where cosmetic procedures which would have once been only for the rich and famous are far more accessible. And although there has always been pressure for women to look young, never has it been more in your face (pardon the turn of phrase).

Only a generation ago my Granny would wear headscarves to the shops to cover her rollers...she was 55!! The fashion was just really different. We have so much freedom that we don't know what to do with ourselves.

I love clothes but some days I'm in black hoodie and leggings combo and others I'm something colourful and fabulous. I'll wear what I want and feel good in but there are increasing times when I do think hmm maybe that's a bit unsuitable. Because I'm in my mid 40s, soft round the middle and have a teenaged daughter who now wants to steal my clothes .

Sorry that's such a ramble but the whole issue also annoys me, I annoy myself...its so complex.