🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Jump through flaming hoops, repeat, 'Beauty is Pain', and acces to this thread will be unlocked

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

Thanks Bo. You've used the bear for 8 weeks and not recharged it once? Wow

Yeah, Sophie about 7-8 weeks, I think, it's on 30% or something and I usually do multiple cycles, so great battery life.

Popular you had the unfortunate results with hydroquinone, right? With pigmentation it's usually easiest to recommend mineral and since you've had stinging issues probably best to stick to those.

Options you haven't tried yet are Avene mineral (comes tinted and untinted, the tinted is very fair but slightly warm so perhaps not the most flattering).

Over budget, Clinique mineral (teeny tiny bottle, so you'd got through them quick, untinted but no white cast), Neostrata sheer physical comes in a good universal tint, colorescience comes in various tints. Dr Sam also has the new gossamer tint but I think the reviews are mixed, it doesn't offer a lot of tint coverage.

Thankyou! Currently using the avene gentle cleaner, spray of thermal water, superdrug simple serum, then avene or LRP moisture intensive cream, then spf. To be honest I don't know the difference in mineral spf but I don't think I have used this.
I did have a sample of skinceuticals lipid repair earlier this year which was pleasant enough but incredibly shiny. However I am happy to accept the shine if it means my skin feels better in the short term.

Do you use the Avène cleanser by rinsing off or are you avoiding water altogether? The latter may be worth trying if you haven't done so yet, do you cleanse in the morning too?

Mineral SPF can be a bit drying so as long as it's not stinging you could probably stick with chemical, I'm trying to think which is the most mattifying without being drying, I don't use those myself though, I think a Eucerin one was good for this. Someone else may know better.

I haven't been using water to rinse off, just wiping away and I found using the water seemed to dry me more.
Using an spf is making my skin feel a little bit chapped, as if I've been out in cold weather and the wind has got to me... Not sure if that makes sense. But I have yet to find one that doesn't do this.
My derm has a range of heliocare which felt good on my hand as a tester but not sure if it is any good or just 1 of the brands she's affiliated with.

My routine would be
AM
Avene clenser - massage on, wipe off
Avene thermal water - spray
Vichy vit C (not using any more as ran out and not likely to replace)
Superdrug simple serum - feels amazing going on but then as dry as before, just shiny
Avene or LRP heavy moisteriser depending on if I am going out or not as LRP tends to pill. Again super shiny and cheeks a little tight after an hour or two
Spf - currently photoderma which has white cast and mega shine

PM Same as above without vit c, and cicaplast or squalane to finish

I've completely missed the bear talk. Completely. Is this the New Thing then? Are you all really gorgeous or is it placebo because it's so expensive?

Well obviously I'm absolutely stunning but I think that convinction may be down to the isolation... I really like how I look without makeup though, I always thought makeup leveled me up a bit but now I'm on board with the menz who go on about how women look better without makeup 🤦

Smudgey you're pretty much doing anything I can think of. Potentially skip the cleanser in the morning? Maybe try the Hada Labo premium toner (link here but that one ships from Japan, I'm sure there are UK sellers but since I'm not in the UK they're not showing up). I think the shine with everything is probably down to not being able to absorb things as easily so there's just a lot of residue, so probably sensible to just embrace it.

*Also, before the Bear I was thinking of getting my eyebrows 'permanently' done post lockdown, always thought they were fine but they felt a bit blah all of a sudden and now brows look a great shape again.

I obviously want a bear now. Esp if it helps brows.

I've tried Hada Labo toner Smudgey and it's very good. But the cream with propylene glycol was great for isotretinoin skin.

Dropping in to say that I just got a Bear (have been looking at it for a while and the love here shoved me into a decision). I ordered it from Cult Beauty and it said I would get a free Gift Bag with it. I thought nothing of it, assuming it would be a couple of samples, but it was a huge bag of goodies, pretty much the same as an Advent calendar - lookie here www.cultbeauty.co.uk/promotions. It was an extremely pleasant surprise this morning!

Don’t make me go back through the threads - what’s the thread consensus on the different types , the mini etc? 😬😘

Full size Bear or nothing at all. I like snail slime for my conductivity gel (keeping with an animal theme, obvs).

Ah yes, Tawny, I'd seen that goodie bag, can you let me know if the scalp scrub thingy from Tokyo Nature Labs is any good?

Sure. Would you like your Lab Rat to be Mature Woman with Short Menopausal Hair Like Raffia (dyed), or Stroppy Teen with Lots of Hair Who Thinks Superdrug’s Offer of 2 Box Dyes for A Fiver Means Bring It On? I can likely supply the views of either/both

Either or both works, I used to be a teen with lots of bombproof hair and am probably slowly on my way to raffia hair...

I really like the Christophe Robin sea salt scrub as an occasional clarifier but it's stupidly priced for something I only use occasionally.

Thanks for the help! that toner isn't in stock until 14th in the UK so will get it ordered then. It's just a relief to talk it through with someone who understands skincare and can say I'm doing the right things. I had a huge worry that I was causing damage or doing something totally wrong so at least thats something. I take my last tablet on the 20th of next month so hopefully I'll see some positive changes in the following weeks.

@botemp thanks so much for your thoughts on SPF. I'll take a look at these.
You're right, I'm the person who had the unlucky hydro reaction with hyperpigmentation.
Can I ask what the thinking is behind avoiding chemical sunscreens if you have hyperpigmentation? Are they less effective?
Also, I have been wracking my brains how my hyperpigmentation could have increased despite slathering on the spf. Dermatica suggested an unlucky and rare side effect. But I'm also on my laptop and mobile phone a lot every day for work. I'm dimly aware potential links between HEV/blue light and skin damage. What's your position on this? Would you recommend slathering on spf before you open the lid of your laptop? Or are there physical filters you can buy?
Sorry to come back with more questions - no rush obviously to reply:-)

popular, it's not that chemical sunscreens are bad or less effective, some will be even better than physical sunscreens for preventing and protecting from worsening pigmentation but physical sunscreens are less likely to cause irritation which potentially could lead to more pigmentation.

As a dermatologist you'd also have to be very specific about which filters exactly to get in a chemical one whereas there are only two physical filters (which are both good and tend to be used together). The good chemical sunscreens are also not easily available everywhere (not approved in the US because they're weird and charge a huge amount of money for testing them and no one wants to pay for it ) so it's just a lot more fool proof to tell people to get a mineral sunscreen and be assured they have good protection even if it's not necessarily the best you could possibly use.

No, blue light is not that impactful as people think. Michelle from Lab Muffin Beauty recently did a video on YouTube, it's really comprehensive on the subject. I think you can buy something like those privacy screens for them but I don't really know if there's a point. Anyhow, sunscreen doesn't protect much, iron oxides do so a tinted physical or foundation will make a slight bit of difference, maybe.

Smudgey, I hope it all works out

@botemp, your info is so clear, even this Humanities grad can understand it. Thank you.
And glad the blue light thing seems to be a chimera. If future research disproves this, so be it, but for the time being I am grateful to knock one thing off the worry list:-)

I found an old pic and thought this was interesting

First pic before Botox, not using retinol, basic routine
second pic (I had Botox last over a year ago, and only had 4 treatments so none left!) using retinol and focusing on hydration
They're 3 years apart and my lines changed so much for the better

You're welcome popular, it probably helps I don't have anything to sell, so no need to obfuscate anything to get you believing a marketing spin of my choice. At worst, I'm guilty of getting others to collude in affirming the results I believe I'm seeing with certain products/gadgets 🙊🙈

Paws - impressive changes! Shows the power of skincare and retinols in particular :)

I'm here to confess to buggering up my skin again.... after hearing some talk of BR P50 (which I stopped using last year as I felt it was too irritating alongside tret)... I made the mistake of thinking my skin was obviously going to be OK, trying P50 ONCE FFS as I'd been using tret successfully with minimal issues since last May, giving myself tomato face and what seems to be massive tret irritation. God, I never learn, do I?

So from my skin looking great a week or so ago (not pink, hydrated, slightly lifted from Bear use), I'm now red, finely lined and sore! Skin & Me have told me to lay off tret for a week and send more pictures before I start up again and they're going to send me a lower dose next time. And it was all going so well!!

I'm aware the cold weather isn't helping but honestly, I think I wrote exactly the same post last year.... hopefully a week of cicaplast and squalane will sort it out.

Oh no tsmummy they really need to give us flares here like on reddit that state our skin type along with our name 70sduvet = elephant hide, so far indestructible, one day she's going to get a shock
At least you know where you've gone wrong and know how to fix it. But so frustrating when it's all been going so well.

I've had a just over a week on the Neostrata dark spot pigment lightening gel. And I think it is working. Well I hope it is working. After 5 days it looked worse. Like a burn. I have two dark spots each about the size of a pencil top rubber on my upper cheek and they grew bigger, turned a dark red and then suddenly crusted over. But it was a very thin crust which washed away the next day and the spots were lighter. Now each time I put on the gel it crusts again and washes off and looks a bit lighter.

The outline of the spots is not as defined as they were, they look bigger and there is some redness.

In the end I decided to really minimise my routine to cleanse, gel, moisturise and SPF. SPF being the most important as this is pretty much a peel and I dont want to encourage any further hyperpigmentation. You also only put the gel on the hyperpigmentation. I have very slight melasma on my upper lip, its not noticeable really only to be in a high magnification mirror. This has not so far made any difference to it. I did notice in the reviews that those who had used it for melasma said it was rubbish but those who used it for dark "age spots" really raved about it.

The whole treatment is 6 weeks so I've a while to go but so far so good.

Also I am glad I started now as I think this would be a difficult product to work into life outside lockdown. Its a sticky gel which takes ages to dry down. I keep the curtains drawn for an hour after applying it in the morning before I out on SPF but I don't think I could put makeup on over it. I've wrapped my face in a scarf when I've been outside. It also looks a bit eeeek.

I've gone back to basics - think it may be the bitterly cold weather which isn't helping. Cleanse, moisturiser/SPF and Skin + Me in the evening.

@70sduvet - When you mentioned flares, I had to laugh, although maybe not the flares you meant. DD1 (14)'s order of flares/bell bottoms just arrived. I totally get that some things go in and out of fashion, but she also ordered a kaftan which she is insisting goes over the bell bottoms

Oh how annoying tsmummy. When we I've done something silly with my skin, I find it takes 4 days of no actives at all to get back to normal. Hope your skin recovers soon.

Poor you Tsm, let's not turn this into an annual thing... Is it P50 straight, I tend to use a weaker strength? My skin can handle a fair amount weirdly enough but it can also be a finnicky bastard. I was out for quite a bit yesterday and the cold winter weather and winds have definitely taken its toll, it's been quite sensitive since, I'm taking it back to basics for a few days as a result.

Flairs or flares (I can't remember the right spelling, I'm convinced it's the former on Reddit but I'm not a native speaker) would be a terrifying thing on MN, the passive aggressive opportunities would be too much (and there would also be far too many 'snapped and farted' ones)...