🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Jump through flaming hoops, repeat, 'Beauty is Pain', and acces to this thread will be unlocked

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

If you're about botemp... what do you think to this? I'm still perusing for a timeless replacement
https://skinsider.co.uk/product/pure-vitamin-c-15-with-ferulic-acid/

Queen, it's popular in Asian Beauty but tbh I wouldn't recommend it as a lot of people have had their faces stained orange with it. I believe the pH is too high but potentially there was a different issue.

Ninny, I take Verisol collagen because it's the only one with research done it for skin/hair etc. Funded by them but better than nothing, there's plenty of independent research on its use in joints. My dermatologist recommended it for my hair issues and I will say it has helped with that a bit (my ends don't thin out as much so I can grow it longer without looking straggly but I've also been doing CGM as you know but I'm not convinced that method has been that influential on my hair health). I really wasn't expecting much as the science isn't really there atm (very much in the promising category) but it has minimised cellulite which came back with a vengeance when the collagen was OOS for a few weeks. I also can get weird knee joint issues/noises when exercising and that's gone too with the collagen. For facial skin and nails I've not noticed any real difference. The most effect a supplement has had on my facial skin is still fermented cod liver oil (which is more food than supplement) it gives a very nice lit from within glow. However, I haven't been able to get hold of it for months, it was from a small British company and I fear they've gone bust. There's a US version but they have had some bad press so I'm wary.

Purple has reminded me of the yearly roundups, I'll try and remember to put it up again in a bit.

Thanks Bo. I'll probably continue not to bother worrying about a collagen supplement. I don't suppose there is a decent vegetarian option by the very nature of the product.

Also, I've been looking into the Foreo. What conducting product do you use Bo?

No, I don't think I there's a vegetarian equivalent. I don't eat meat but accept everyone does, the collagen is made from cartilage that's otherwise an absolute waste product so it doesn't bother me much. You can get fish but apparently that's more of use for very dry skinned people as it makes you oilier.

Currently using Parker Labs Spectra 360 gel but I'd like to find something else as I need to wash it off after so it feels like I'm cleansing my face too much. The Foreo serum serum serum that comes with it (only good for two goes) is nice and doesn't require washing off but it's £60 for something very basic. The basic Nuface gel is apparently comparable and not as crazily priced. The Foreo serum feels similar to Vichy mineral 89 but it's been awhile since I used that and I'm not sure how quick that is to absorb, anyone using it currently by any chance?

Cult Beauty currently has 20% off (ends today) it's a pretty good deal with that.

I do eat meat, but only really chicken and steak. And I'm quite squeamish about it. So I'd need to totally not think about it.

I read that aloe vera gel would work? I think on the video link you posted on the other thread Bo?

PS I was thinking of collagen re hands. I assume that's why hands are more veins than flesh in one's 70s and beyond.

What's the yearly round-up, @botemp?

Thanks for reminding me MrObama 🙂

Behold the Snailies, our annual roundup of hits and misses. We fill them out indivdually, no prizes as the cosmetic companies have yet to reach out to me with bribery

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2020 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Flusher - money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

The Jack & Rose - the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

The LTB - it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

The Child Prodigy - that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

The Worker Bee - never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

The Troll - the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

The Flabbergaster - that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

The Sinner - oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

Google docs version

(much easier to copy paste and has the MN formatting, no need to use italics though)

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

Medik8 - Pump and Glow - a great PHA poor relative of P50

The Flusher - money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

Altruist Anti Redness/Sunscreen 50 - the less said the better

The Jack & Rose - the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart

LRP Dermo Cleanser

The LTB - it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

Anything from The Ordinary - so full of hope...

The Child Prodigy - that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

Heliocare 50

The Worker Bee - never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

Cerave Moisturising Cream

The Troll - the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

Medik8 C Intense

The Flabbergaster - that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

Skin + Me - The Series

The Sinner - oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

The Ordinary BHA - almost called 111 to report an intruder on my face

Thanks for posting the Snailies Bo. I won't participate as all of the negative answers will be related to my bad experience with Dermatica/Skin + Me and the only new thing I've tried is Soolantra .

I shall enjoy reading others' answers though.

I love reading the Snailies, I've got nothing of interest to add myself really.

I ordered a Q&A skincare bundle last night, probably not Fantastic Skincare approved but 4 out of the 5 products I wanted to try.

Actually, I do have a new product. I've been using Face Theory Azeclear Azelaic Acid Serum in the mornings for a month or so and I really like it. I always thought I didn't tolerate Azelaic Acid which was puzzling because it's supposed to be good for rosacea, but I'm pretty sure I only tried the one from The Ordinary.

I love reading these.

I feel like I need to add something into my regime, it's been the same for a while and want to take the next step...

Happy New Year everyone 🥳 🍾 🎉 like pretty much everyone I’ll be glad to see the back of 2020!

I’ll try and get my Snailies done over the next couple of days, though I’ve not tried much new (or done anything particularly daft ) this year so may not have something for every category.

My house move looks like it might be happening sooner than expected so purging and decluttering is on in a big way and I definitely won’t be buying anything other than absolute necessities over the next few months.

Happy New Year!

Ladies, which are the best budget-friendly sheet masks which contain no crap?

I haven't worn a sheet mask for over a year (I know!) I used to wear holika holika animal sheet masks and purchase them from eBay for 1ish pounds each! Now when I lookon eBay the cheapest masks are 2-3 pounds each. I'm looking to stock up so will bulk buy.

Any recommended sources and mask types? I'm looking for hydration and brightening (not whitening! Ha)

Happy new year everyone 🎉 just finished my Snailies and to all the ones bowing out, just do it even if all the negatives fill up a few categories. I thought I wouldn't have much either but 2020 is a bit of a self induced blur and once I went digging there was plenty of material.

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2020 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - newest and latest find that gets your motor running

The Foreo Bear, I'm not making it up, before and after pictures show a noticeable difference after first use. It makes me look a bit less porridge face (seems to be a result of being stuck indoors) and the light hits my face in the most aesthetically pleasing way again.

2019 Snailies: Cerave Hydrating cleanser.

2018 Snailies: Switching from ordinary cod liver oil to fermented Cod Liver oil capsules from Armorica.

The Flusher - money spent on this product would have been better put to use by flushing it down the toilet

Well I got some free samples with orders recently that are very £££ and fragrance/irritant free so I actually tried them as they both had Niacinamide in which my skin usually loves. Drunk Elephant Electrolyte facial and Venn concentrated revitalizing lifting mask both promising instant/overnight results. They made no notable difference, not even a nice Niacinamide boost that I get with much simpler products 🤷

Probably a bit unfair, but Vanicream cleanser was a bit of a letdown after all the effort to get it and hype surrounding it. I don't hate it, I don't even actively dislike it, and it wasn't a financial drain at all but it's just meh.

I suppose Purito SPF belongs here too for being SPF 19 with a SPF 50 label.

2019 Snailies: Skin Aqua tone up UV essence SPF50+ (THE smell 🤮)

2018 Snailies: GOW Vitamin C 23% version 1.0 (forever known as the squirter 💦)

The Jack & Rose - the product you’ll never let go of because there’s plenty of fucking space for the two of you on that piece of wood. Damn you, James Cameron, for breaking my poor little tween heart.

Hada Labo premium difficult to translate name, but the one with tranexamic acid and not the extra moisturising version. For making me into an ethereal ghost 👻

Softymo speedy cleansing oil, ridiculously cheap and super effective.

2019 Snailies: Prescription Tretinoin, (Prescription) Minoxidil, Cerave hydrating cleanser, Timeless CE Ferulic.

2018 Snailies: Frezyderm Velvet Face SPF50+, DHC Cleansing Oil, Christophe Robin Haircare
Previous Snailies I’m sure it included Verso Super Eye Serum, Biologique Recherche P50, Vichy thermal water, LRP Toleriane Ultra Nuit (discontinued)

The LTB - it all seemed so promising, everything was going so great, then they turned out to be a narcissist gaslighting bastard

Timeless CE ferulic for turning me into the bastard that's being left. How can he leave me, I'm totally doing the pick me dance and hoping it will return to market here

Purito obviously gets another mention, for gaslighting 🤔

2019 Snailies: Me for playing a bit fast and loose with prescription Tretinoin, La Roche Posay Toleriane Cream Riche.

2018 Snailies: GOW Vitamin C 23%

The Child Prodigy - that one product that’s annoyingly good and isn’t afraid to be smug about it

Still prescription tretinoin. Smug bastard.

Also, Rahua hair care. Ugh, the price, but my hair loves it.

2019 Snailies: Prescription Tretinoin. Sigh.

2018 Snailies: Medik8 R-Retinoate, which I noted was something of a Hannukah miracle as I bought it in 2017 and it still wasn’t finished. It’s now 2019 and still not finished (have only been using it sporadically since starting Tret late spring)

The Worker Bee - never the centre of attention but has been steadily chugging along like no other

Cerave Moisturising Cream, got a little deluxe sample and it's just such a good match for winter Tret face.

Cerave SA resurfacing cream for the body is also brilliant and unassuming.

2019 Snailies: La Roche Posay Toleriane Sensitive Cream (not the rich one), Alpha Skincare 12% Glycolic body lotion (ordered through Amazon US).

2018 Snailies: LRP Toleriane hydrating wash (sorry buddy, you’ve been replaced) and LRP Toleriane Ultra Nuit (now discontinued and another you don’t know what you’ve got…)

The Troll - the one where you repeatedly asked, ‘Is this doing anything?’, but continued to use it anyway…

Troll free 2020, I think. Unless you count the pandemic

2019 Snailies: I think I may have had a troll-free 2019? Is that even possible?

2018: Ogliotherapie

The Flabbergaster - that one product or technique that wasn’t really supposed to be used like that or delivered well beyond your non-existent expectations

Verisol collagen supplement. The research is iffy at best, only tried it on a recommendation from my dermatologist for hair strength. Can't really tell if it did anything for that as I've been doing lots of hair stuff all at once. Anyhow, was not expecting much and it delivered in places I hadn't anticipated, most astonishing was on my cellulite which seems to be more apparent the lower my weight is but it's barely visible so long as I'm on collagen and my slightly creaky knees don't cream anymore. Skin and nails I can't really see any difference.

2019 Snailies: Tripollar pose (body).

Snailies 2018: Pommade A313

The Sinner - oh, admit it because we’re all guilty of it, what did you do or use that wasn’t all that sensible like take an acid bath and had the disastrous results you really knew to expect

I think I might actually have been good this year

2019 Snailies: Me again with the Tretinoin, going quicker than planned and using overly rich creams that would otherwise make me cower in horror.

Snailies 2018: Packing all my skincare items in hold luggage and airline then misplacing said luggage.

Current routine, just for reference:

AM

Rinse with water or Vanicream cleanser (depends on how skin feels)

Vichy thermal water (live in a hard water area, this helps a lot with my sensitive skin)

Timeless CE Ferulic (the last of it 😱)

Hada Labo TXA toner
La Roche Posay Toleriane sensitive if needed

Some form of SPF50+

PM

Night 1

Softymo speedy cleansing oil followed by Vanicream cleanser
Foreo Bear routine
Cleanse to take off conductivity gel (currently looking for an alternative that can be left on) with Cerave Hydrating cleanser and Vichy thermal water after
Hada Labo TXA toner
Cerave Moisturising Cream
Prescription Tretinoin

Night 2

As above, switching Tret for Biologique recherche P50 pigm 400 (used before toner)

Pusheen, it's been forever since I used a sheet mask, I remember likeing an abalone one from Blithe but they were expensive. Also liked Naruto from Taiwan but also on the spendy side. I used a Japanese brand that came with loads in one packet but can't remember the name, will have to look it up. I never liked sheet masking in winter though, it was an unpleasant wet slightly cold feeling but maybe your home is warmer than mine.

Pusheen, it was Lululun, I liked the slightly more expensive Precious line, the one in the gold foil (but called white) which is for brightening and the red which had a lot of fermented and hydrating ingredients for general ageing and deep hydration. They come in packets of 7 or boxes of 32 and they usually work out cheaply per piece but covid has made international shipping expensive and slower.

I also really like the Casmarra (from Spain) modeling masks, the 24k one is my favourite. But it's not a sheet mask necessarily and I treat it as a special events kind of mask which we don't have anymore...

Purple, Q&A skincare is new to me, looks to be fragrance/common irritant free (except for the peppermint cleanser, but it's wash off so not that dramatic) so looks good. Let us know how you get on with it.

🐌🐌 THE SNAILIES 2020 🐌🐌

The Well Hello There - Soolantra - which calmed down my rosacea patches in a matter of days

The Flusher - Dermatica / Skin+Me - set me back in the managing my redness department, after 2+ years of taking retinol slowly

The Jack & Rose - Curel moisturiser. Prior to that, Timeless Vitamin C

The LTB - Creatine powdered supplement. Taken for the gym (and we get it from food) plus it has potential benefits against dementia. Took it 3 months ago and after a couple of weeks developed an itchy rash on my upper left buttock which I didn't link to the creatine initially. Took a break and it cleared up a couple of weeks after. Gave it another try 2 weeks ago and from day 1 the same thing happened.

The Child Prodigy - pre Dermatica / Skin + Me this probably would have been Neostrata retinol.

The Worker Bee - Clinique TTDO balm

The Troll - Purito. Still heartbroken about that one

The Flabbergaster - Aveda Foot Relief Cream which has made my feet baby soft. I shall never need to do one of those awful foot peels again

The Sinner - I think we know the answer to this one... Dermatica / Skin + Me

Aghh went to reorder the The Timeless vitamin C serum and it appears to have been discontinued. I know you ladies are very knowledgeable are there any decent replacements please?

Has anyone read CH skincare book? I got it for Christmas and was quite surprised at the high price points recommended. I’d be bankrupt if I followed her advice!

XmasSkies, it's been removed from the European market, not discontinued. Bastards.

Money no object option is Skinceuticals CE ferulic or the slightly cheaper lower concentration version, Serum 10.

Vichy Liftactiv Vitamin C Brightener (they seemed to have changed the name, again) is an option if it's on sale, just note it's only 10ml and quite prone to oxidising so absolutely keep it in the fridge, it's formulated to only last 2 weeks when there's product in there for about a month. Still not the most economic option though, even on sale.

None of us have tried it yet, but Geek and Gorgeous c glow looks like the best candidate. It's very affordable, the only downside is that the shipping is more costly than the product. It gets cheaper if you buy more products but stocking up on Vitamin c isn't sensible and the other products are probably things you don't need. However, product+expensive shipping is around the price Timeless was, so if you get over the whole weird economics of it, it isn't that bad.

You can also order Timeless from US Amazon and it's about the same price shipped as when bought through Timeless UK previously but don't know how that works with Brexit and tariffs from the US (I'm in the EU and it's under threshold so wouldn't pay and tax or import charges) and since you're not buying from Timeless directly it may be old stock so would not necessarily recommend (although with the new packaging it's less of a concern, but it remains a costly gamble although Amazon is generally good with customer service IME).

I do not have CH's book, no surprise there, I can't think she'd have much to enlighten me on (and I'm not saying this in a smug I know better way, there just isn't that much to know about skincare). I'm not surprised by the high end recommendations, that seems to be her USP now and she's built herself an audience that appreciates that, there was never a business to build around skincare only has limited effect, use these bog standard products.

@botemp - Was reading an article by a demo (can't find it at the moment) and he suggested Medik8 Super C 30 as a good C. None of his other recommendations seemed to suggest that he was being sponsored by advertising.

@NinnyNewName - My husband used to get me Aveda hand relief every year, but mostly as he thought it was a bit of a chuckle.

@XmasSkies2020 - There is some CH advice that is useful such as the common sense notion that if are willing to spend quite a bit on a fashion item, you should also be willing to spend a bit more on your skin. Also her philosophy that if you are skint to focus your money on actives. I think this is good advice. Other than that, I personally don't think that people need so many products.

Re: DD1(14) Her skin is looking almost clear; which is down to the Epiduo over past 2 months. Not a miracle but slow progress.

As much as I like Medik8 (specifically their retinoids) it's quite obvious they're pushing product through various avenues in different ways at the moment, not even dermatologists are immune to this and their ad disclosure is even murkier than influencers (they can speak freely as a private individual who happens to be a derm for example, but get all sorts of discounts for clinic or education through a brand). It used to be an in clinic brand only and now it's suddenly everywhere and the best thing since sliced bread so the sudden avalanche of recommendations doesn't feel natural to me.

There's been a few on here who have not gotten on with Medik8 Vitamin C. I like one of their vitamin c derivatives and recommend it if you can't do L-AA, I can't vouch for them all though. One of my pet peeves with Medik8 is that they sneak in some common irritants here and there which you wouldn't expect with their clinical marketing. The C30 is full of lemon essential oils (the most likely to irritate of all the EOs) and other fragrant compounds, it's an odd recommendation from a derm in my book, but dependant on audience not an odd one as most people don't need to worry about common irritants.

Good to hear DD's skin is almost clear that's a great achievement in two months.

*citrus not lemon but same ball park and all that...