🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

Morning, can I join in?

I’ve made inroads into improving my skin over the last couple of years and am seeing a lot of improvement. I’m 51, fair, freckled with a couple of big splodges of pigmentation and now have a fairly long, but much enjoyed routine.

I’ve used Dermatica in the past, had a lot of flaking but just thought I’d push through it, then DH went to Portugal so got me some otc Tret and I stopped the Dermatic with no change, still flaky. A couple of weeks ago I got my first skin & me, just thought I’d see if it was any different to the Dermatica and I love it. I don’t have any flakiness at all, so appear to have a different reaction to most of you. I’m on 0.04 Tret, plus niacinamide & azalaic acid.

Re the hunt for spf, I adore the new Beauty Pie 50spf, lightweight, sinks in, no white cast, plays under make up. I didn’t get on with the Altruist, but my teen daughter is using it so it’s not going to waste.

I recently finished using Oskia vit c which was ok, went back to Timeless that I’d only just started before I got the Oskia (CH Kit) I now think the Timeless is much better, not only do I prefer the consistency but I really see a much better result. However I have some FaceTheory Regina C30 waiting in the wings to try that I bought before I’d realised how good the Timeless is. Has anyone tried that one ?

Thanks Jestre. The dermatologist did emphasise that it wasn't serious so I'm trying not to stress about the delay. It's just that the growth is directly under where my glasses sit so it is uncomfortable at times.

Double cleansing is one of things that I wanted to ask about. I don't wear makeup that often especially at the moment but when I do, I use micellar water to remove it. I know that is frowned on on here so was thinking of swapping that for an oil cleanser. Do you think Slmple Hydrating Cleansing oil would be a good choice? It is BOGOF at Superdrug atm. Is this applied in the same way as the Cerave Hydrating Cleanser? What are people's thoughts on hot cloth cleansers like the Liz Earle Cleanse and Polish?

I think I have been using the wrong Cerave moisturiser as the Moisturising Cream doesn't contain niacinamide. Presumably the Cerave Facial Moisturising Lotion is better?

I have tried to purchase the Timeless vitamin C a couple of times but it was out of stock. Same again at the moment but will try again in a day or two

Welcome WhoEatsPopTarts, in answer to your username, people without taste buds... well your Dermatica vs S+M has thrown me for another loop. Did you increase frequency with Dermatica quicker by any chance?

I'm not familiar with the FT Regina C, but iirc it's a derivative so in comparison to Timeless it's a bit apples and oranges, not a fair comparison AKA, the theme of this thread if you like something stick with it, bo knows a good vitamin c when she sees it

It must be difficult Chip, I hope you get to see your dermatologist soon.

Double cleansing, I think it's a personal choice it works well for me because I'm a bit of a lazy cleanser and I tend to be a collection bin of miscellaneous crap in my nose pores that only oil cleansers seem to clear out (acids loosen the stuff but an oil cleanser does the heavy lifting IME). But a diligent single cleanse can be just as good.

Micellar, it's not my first choice but if you're not wearing much (eg a single layer of sunscreen that isn't super water resistant, no makeup on skin) and it's followed up by another cleanser or at the very least rinsed off (miccellar water leaves surfactants on the skin which you don't want hanging around) it's not a major issue. They work well for sensitive skin and not everyone gets on with oil cleansers so they're not verboten or anything.

Anyhow, yes, the simple oil cleanser is pretty good especially for the price. It's hard to get hold of usually so grab it while you can (if you like and want to make the switch). It's applied differently, you apply on dry skin and massage it all over with dry handa (not aggressively, just with the pads of finger tips, if you're prone to heavy handedness use your pinkies only around eyes and nose), for about a minute. Then wet hands and emulsify the oil cleanser and it will turn milky, gently glide fingers around, rinse off, follow with second cleanser (on damp skin).

I'm not a fan of hot cloth cleansing and I know the Liz Earle has some horrible victims on here. However, I'd only absolutely avoid HCC if you're sensitive, have rosaceae, compromised skin barrier, etc. Acne prone skin is a case by case basis. You can also HCC with an oil cleanser but IME it doesn't always completely remove it, although your second cleanse will usually catch the remnants.

Yeah, the Cerave cream is a little heavier and without niacinamide, nothing really wrong with it either, just a basic moistuiser. The lotion comes in an SPF and no SPF version, you'll want the latter, it's also a little difficult to get hold of. Another running theme of this thread...

Bo The Purito was £25.00 - shame though as I really liked it but too expensive for what it is....

Chip I'm a huge fan of Simple Cleansing Oil, and because I'm really tight it's half price at Boots at the moment. It's one of the underrated products in my view. Also think CeraVe is 3 for 2 at Boots.

Has anyone tried Allies of Skin 35% Vit C? Am fairly happy with Medi8 C Intense, but.....

MrObama try here for Purito www.yesstyle.com/en/purito-centella-green-level-safe-sun-spf50-pa-60ml/info.html/pid.1070026959
Shipping is £4 but you could stock up/see if there’s anything else you want to try and get free shipping if you spend £43.

Chip I’m another fan of the simple cleansing oil, it can be hard to find so I tend to stock up when I see it, especially if there’s an offer on. Superdrug tends to be the best place to find it. I found the Una Brennan cleansing oil good too but unfortunately smells like washing up liquid

I’ve started getting Cerave PM from amazon again, it’s the US version which according to the inci is identical to the U.K. one but for some reason I prefer it. I think the packaging/dispensing system is better too and it’s a larger size so don’t need to repurchase as often. The three for two at Boots is a good deal though.

I steer clear of micellar water as it makes my face itch and stings my eyes, I don’t think it does a great job either compared to an oil cleanser.

Sallie - Thank you!

I love the simple cleansing oil too chip. I can get it in my larger Boots store quite easily. I’d definitely choose this over the Liz Earle cleanse and polish. I wear spf and makeup daily so double cleanse at night. I use simple eye makeup remover, followed by simple oil cleanser then a LRP wash off cleanser.

I meant to say, I’ve just started using a skinceuticals Vit c. I went for the Phloretin CF. It’s only 10% L-ascorbic acid but apparently most suitable for oily skin. I’m really liking it so far. I swear I’ve been less oily by mid day. Shame it’s so pricy. I got a good discount and a free SPF. I’ll see when I’ve finished the bottle whether I’ll splurge again

Has anyone tried the Sam Bunting brightly serum?

Am using NIOD 30% Vit C at the moment. Previously was using Medic8 C Intense which I quite rated.

The NIOD is a much better texture and not as oily as the Medic8, so much better for daytime use. For the first few days I used it, did get a slight tingle, but other than that, no major reaction.

Am always a bit on my guard with TO products, but am impressed with this one at the moment. It could be their strategy to have NIOD as the, 'premium' brand and TO as the affordable range?

at the price of that Jedstre, I’m on a budget & saving my pennies to have my droopy mouth done again so think I’ll be sticking to timeless for now

MrObama I’ve not used anything from NIOD or TO for ages but yes agree NIOD is the high end brand and I think the quality/effectiveness is reflected in the price.

I’ve not tried that serum Cad it’s a bit on the pricey side for me at the moment (see budget issues above )

Timeless vitamin c in stock! Finally managed to get some

I’m going to give the Face Theory vit c a chance when my Timeless finishes in a day or two, not sure it’s comparing apples to oranges they’re a 94% match on skinskool.

Well, that was an interesting read - had never seen, 'Skinskool,' which matches higher end ingredients suggesting a cheaper alternative.

Bo - What do you think of P50's dupe being Pestle and Mortar Lactic Acid toner?

Dupes are an odd economy, it usually just means the cheaper version is watered down, I've never found a true dupe for anything, I think they're just good click bait. Formulation is key even if there are 100% identical ingredients, it will still not be the same, quality of ingredients, formulation, process and method all contribute to it being a good product or meh. With the two vitamin c products their similarity in INCI is really uninteresting, it's the active ingredient that isn't the same, it's like comparing retinol to tretinoin, they're related but to expect similar results just isn't the case.

Just an FYI about yesstyle, it takes 2-3 weeks normally from S.K. to arrive but it's been a bit disturbed by Covid, although totally arbitrarily, I ordered something from SK (not yesstyle) quite early on in lockdown and when it was somewhat steady over there with a big backlog of packages needing to be sent out and it arrived really quick. Also, they (yesstyle) mark it down or send it through an EU warehouse so you don't pay import taxes/vat and if you do have to somehow, they reimburse it as store credit.

I'd have to look up the lactic acid toner, but P50 is predominantly a PHA toner, I've yet to see another product use it in the same concentration. It was patented for a long time, I don't know whether it's the case of most cosmetic chemists not being very familiar with formulating it, or that it's a very expensive ingredient to buy. I don't think anyone will put out something similar as it's so strong both due to concentration and low pH and the accounting for user error is too great if just sold on standard shelves, they'd end up with loads of bad press about burning faces off (which would happen to some if they just thought of it as a toner and slather it on generously twice a day). There's also two types of PHA, one is definitely more expensive and effective than the other.

I got distracted and did a stylevana order but it's mostly makeup

Good point about P50 Bo re strength and low ph and no other company making a similar product. What do you think of Sunday Riley ‘Good genes’ lactic acid?

It was a freebie in my beauty bag after the Sali Hughes event. I haven’t opened it. I’m using P50 a couple of times a week anyway

Quick Google and P&M helpfully provide a pH and acid content on the front their bottle to a specific two point decimal 😍 (I do really like P&M as a brand, a bit pricey but the products are nice to use so they fit in with the treat mentality but eliminate all things you don't want in those type of products and doesn't then overload them with other random stuff like Drunk Elephant. They are also a small Irish family business, which is a rarity, unless they've sold up since I last checked). So, no, it's not very similar at all, I can see why they'd say that going by the INCI as they use similar extracts, pha and lactic acid but it's in very different concentrations and in a very different total concentration 5% Vs something like 12% iirc (BR don't publish this but they once responded to someone in an email about it), the pH difference is also of note. BR in that same email indicated a really low pH, I think around 2.3 or something really low like that which means there's a lot of free acid content (see lab muffin's post on free acids and why it pH matters here). P&M has a milder pH at just under 4, still effective but nothing excessive on already mild forms of acids. Distilled version, low pH, lots of available free acids to do its thing which means more effective and exfoliating and more potentially irritating. Higher pH will mean less irritating, less exfoliating and the acids (in this case) perform more to their other strengths, hydration.

You don't really need to be a scientist to figure this out, P&M clearly marks it as something to aid with barrier maintenance, NMF being prominently displayed on the bottle. Where BR makes you jump through hoops to get access to it and warns pretty harshly that you need to use mere drops and it overall carries the rather traditional idea of beauty is pain and guarded by trained professionals and you are very special to even get access to it throughout their communication.

Tl;dr ignore talk of dupes based solely on an INCI. It's a rather useless exercise when you don't have all the data and ignore the communication about the product from the brands themselves. INCIs are about as informative as recipes without any sort of measurements.

Is it very old Jedstre? As the new EU guidelines means we don't have access to the lactic acid version anymore, just a glycolic version with a not very low pH which isn't meant to be as good.

Tbh, not a dupe (I have tried both, SR as a deluxe sample) but in terms of high concentration with a low pH it is similar in formulation approach. IME SR got the balance wrong as it was so teeming with free acid it was just really highly irritating and more like a peel than a daily use product and at the time their marketing was very confusing, they claimed it was very effective but gentle. I know it can be great for people with nearly indestructible skin who struggle to see any effect with most skincare products but that's a pretty small portion and they wouldn't pick up something marketed as mild, and for those with sensitive skin it probably put them off lactic acid forever. They did change tack at some point and then started doing dodgy marketing around it claiming the free acid content (which is a calculation of acid content X pH but in a much more complex formula) was the actual acid content. I've never been able to take them as serious since as they're so dodgy and dishonest, only further compounded when they got caught out writing bad reviews on competitors and writing false positive ones on their own.

I love this observation -- '...makes you jump through hoops to get access to it and warns pretty harshly that you need to use mere drops and it overall carries the rather traditional idea of beauty is pain and guarded by trained professionals and you are very special to even get access to it throughout their communication..'

I got an email from BR saying that they had, 'unlocked,' my account so I would be able to purchase P50 .

Am fairly happy at the moment with my routine. Am quite liking Dr Sam's Flawless Cleanser. Skin + Me increased tret to 0.12, and am liking the slow process.

Re: DD1(14) - Her acne was getting better than worse, and finally she allowed me to take a photo of her to send to the GP, who thought it was fungal acne, which actually isn't acne at all. After suggesting putting an anti fungal shampoo on her face , the GP said that she was a bit out of her depth, so now have booked DD in to see a Dermatologist. Earliest appointment is in October and only wish I had done this sooner.

With that conduct BR really might make you believe the world is run by lizard people who obviously use P50 to keep the scales in check

Ah fungal acne is a bugger but if it is the case a lot easier to tackle. Have you checked her products? There are a couple of sites dedicated to it with specific ingredients to avoid as they encourage growth of the fungus.

Embassy of Beauty are a right pain with making you create an account and do a questionnaire before you can buy anything, not to mention recommending a routine that you’d need a second mortgage to maintain and after all that they deign to let you get your mitts on the P50 at an inflated price and extortionate p&p.

MrObama could you book a private derm for DD? Or is it a private one that’s making you wait till Oct as imagine they’ll have a bit of a backlog.

QueenCT as our resident eyeshadow queen do you have any recs for a subtle golden green (not bright green or too glittery) eyeshadow, ideally a single or a small (2 or 3 shades) palette and not too pricey?

Hmm give me a minute
MAC sumptuous olive would have been perfect I think but it's discontinued

ELF - hot jalapeño https://www.elfcosmetics.co.uk/bite-size-eyeshadow/29923.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIzYDN156t6wIViaztCh2l8wW-EAQYASABEgIz9fDBwE&gclsrc=aw.dss__

Natasha denona - more pricey but I'm drooling_
https://www.lookfantastic.com/natasha-denona-mini-gold-palette-4g/12521582.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&thgppccampaign=71700000026979856&adtype=pla&productid=12521582&gclid=EAIaIQobChMI3bSqlZ-t6wIV5IBQBh1akgfEAQYBiABEgJGivDBwE&gclsrc=aw.ds

Ah sumptuous olive is here!
https://www.lookfantastic.com/mac-small-eye-shadow-pro-palette-refill-1.5g-various-shades/11471176.html?affil=thggpsad&switchcurrency=GBP&shippingcountry=GB&variation=11471256&shoppingpid=MACBHGWP2508&thgppccampaign=71700000026979856&adtype=pla&productid=11471256&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIKTG7Z-t6wIVCbLtCh2RpwIsEAQYHCABEgK2mDBwE&gclsrc=aw.dss_
_
Or sumptuous olive with a case rather than just a pan
_
https://www.fenwick.co.uk/beauty/make-up/eyes/eyeshadows/small-eye-shadow/2500000751592.html?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIz4y0iKCt6wIVB-ztCh0XUgejEAQYAiABEgLKyD_BwE

That natasha denona palette is lovely, I haven't come across that make before but there are some lovely palettes!