🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

Hi all, thought I'd update with my S&M experience ()

I'm finding it quite irritating, in that my skin is sting-y and a bit pink now. I've been using it for 3 nights, night off, then 3 nights - prior to this was using Dermatica (at a supposedly higher dose) every other night with no issues. It appears as though my skin is reacting similarly to when I was using Retirides at 0.05 (although no peeling yet).

I have been using the Revolution 12.5% vitamin C, so I'll stop that, but no other actives. Wasn't expecting this level of reaction tbh!

Sorry to hear about everyone's cancelled plans... like Pupsie, I have a feeling things will get worse at some point so I'm aiming to enjoy the calm for as long as possible.... we've spent the last 18 months renovating our house and I'm frantically finishing off my PhD about to launch myself into the worst job market in decades, yikes!

Interesting re S&M tsmummy. What will you do? I'm certain I was already seeing an improvement to the pore appearance/size on my nose after just one month of the 0.025% from Dermatica. And I was using it alongside Vit C.

The area on my chin started with the 0.05% Dermatica for sure. It's looking much better now having taken a break from all actives.

I do wonder about going back to Dermatica 0.05% but buffered and/or 3 x per week.

I do want results, but I'm not prepared for LONG term skin discomfort.

Well done on the PhD! What area is it in?

Pupsie I'm not sure. I don't want to end up in the same position as I was Feb/March when my skin got overwhelmed and I had to cut out all actives for a while (frankly my skin looked better when I wasn't using anything). Tbh I don't think my skin ever got used to tret, in spite of using it for several years - it always felt slightly niggly.

I'm not sure what to do. Perhaps reduce this to every other night and cut out all other actives?

Thanks re. PhD, it's been a long struggle, not helped by my perimenopausal brain (it's the main reason I went on HRT - couldn't think straight)! Lockdown hasn't helped due to having my DD/DH at home so I've asked for a few months extension. I'm praying my productivity increases once she's back at school and I'm no longer expending huge amounts of mental energy trying to get her to do her online lessons! It's on infant nutrition during the weaning process - what babies are actually eating when introduced to solids :)

I find S&M ( especially combined with the spurting tube ) a bit irritating too and as I’m an on an extremely low dose of tret I think azelaic acid might be the culprit. No flaking but it makes me itchy on my face and I got a rash on my neck. I’ll persevere for another month with the higher dose of tret but I’ll most likely end up back with dermatica.

That PhD sounds interesting Ts it seems like it’s very specialised, not sure if that makes it easier or harder to find a job. I suspect I may be made redundant in the next 6 months but for various reasons it wouldn’t necessarily be a bad thing for me at the moment.

Guess I'll end up being the only one to fly the S&M Flag . Why oh why did they not think the name through??

It's a tricky balance - being effective without being an irritant, and have to say, am really surprised that my skin hasn't reacted more adversely.

Ts Sounds interesting - although am fairly sure most of the weaning process for my DCs went from the floor to the dog. . But seriously, how do people work from home and manage to get anything done? Hopefully in September things will get back to some normality....

Just wondering if anyone has tried the frezyderm tinted ?
As I’m getting older I’m finding foundation is looking to heavy

I can’t imagine trying to work or study at home with young children. I’d have been an absolute disaster at home schooling, I remember trying to help a godchild with maths when they were about 10 and it was too hard for me

Connie I use frezyderm tinted and like it, I’ve been using it in place of foundation as I’m wearing minimal makeup at the moment. I’m medium skin tone though, I think the consensus on here was it’s a bit too dark if you’re pale/fair skinned.

SallieSallow Thank you
I am quite pale.
I was using the nars tinted moisturiser
But the colour isn’t right ,

Pupsie I meant to reply properly - why not try the Dermatica 3 x week buffered as you suggest? I'm considering asking Derm to give me another 0.025 as I didn't have a problem at all with that... I wonder if the S&M azelaic is what's causing my issues (rather than the tret/niacinamide combo)...

Sallie Yes by their nature PhDs are very narrow - you have to find a subject on which to do original research, so no-one's done the same thing previously. In effect, it means you're researching a super-specific question and writing 80-100k words describing and justifying what you've done. I've got a MSc in Nutrition as well, which was far more practical and applicable to real-life so hopefully that'll help :) I wouldn't recommend it though, and am fairly sure I wouldn't do it if I had my time again!
I'm glad the prospect of redundancy isn't too awful for you right now - I hope you manage to figure out the best path for you and yours. These are testing times for sure.

Connie I'm quite light and like Heliocare Beige but there is even a lighter one, Pearl but it's Nicole Kidman light (Fitzpatrick Type I). I managed to get samples but probably wouldn't risk as there is a huge difference between the Pearl and Beige. For ones that are more neutral, Neostrata is good, but quite watery and expensive, although seems to last longer than the tube of Bioderma Photoderm

I might do that TS. I tried azelaic before (I think from The Ordinary) and I was sure I didn't get on with it, but it was early on in my journey and I had probably introduced something else around the same time in my eagerness, so hard to be sure, but this does have me wondering. Although Bo (I think) said it would be unusualy to have a reaction to AA. But my gut is telling me it could well be that.

Have to say I'm really enjoying the Neostrata Connie.

I’m trying to think if I’ve used azelaic acid before, suspect like you Pupsie I tried the Ordinary version back in the day I was trying everything they had to offer I know my skin was reacting but I blamed their Vit C and retinol.

Skin+Me have got this on their website about Azelaic Acid so for those of us with mild irritation it might be worth persevering a bit longer.

“Drug use: Used topically to treat acne, pigmentation and skin texture. Side effects: Occasionally local skin irritation may occur, usually at the start of treatment. In most cases the irritation is mild and usually gets better as treatment continues. Contact us if you have skin irritation that is severe, worsens or does not go away. There may be skin discolouration at the application site and skin lightening can occur, particularly in darker skin types. If you have asthma, in rare cases worsening of asthma has occurred.“

Ts I did not know that’s what was involved in a PhD, well done for getting through it and I hope you’re able to find a job in your field. With regards to redundancy, since my Mum died my mental health hasn’t been great & I feel like I need to make some changes life and job wise. I’ll see what happens though, as won’t be able to change much till life is a bit more normal again. And of course there’s good old Brexit looming too...

@botemp Yes, i’m on the Yasmin pill. Been on it for bloody 5 weeks now. It’s to manage the timings for embryo transfer in Cyprus. No one knows when the border from South to North will open to let us IVF’ers in

Does anyone use castor oil on their lashes or is it an old wives tale? My eyelashes are crap and I won’t wear false ones as I can’t apply them. My eyelashes are very dark, but thin and not very long.

Very impressed with the Dr Dennis Gross ultra gentle pads. Anyone know if they’re deemed suitable for pregnancy (If I ever get to Cyprus ) I know lactic and mandelic are ok, but these contain willow bark too.

@SallieSallow Sorry to hear about your mum Good luck with making the changes. I think a lot of us have had a re-think since lockdown. I really need to have a long think about exactly what changes I need to make.

Pupsie & Sallie Yes I was warned by S&M that azelaic could be irritating and that's why they were putting me on a v low dose of tret (0.016) - as I'd said I'd previously had irritation with 0.05 tret. I really wasn't expecting this, but will persevere a little longer....

Loss can have a profound effect on mental/emotional health but also be a catalyst for change over time (IME)... I'm sorry for the loss of your mum

No peeling for me from s&m but a couple of chin spots have appeared

Sorry to hear that people aren’t having a good experience with skinandme. It’s good that it was only £3.50 for the first month so not too much lost.

I’m actually liking it a lot now. The peeling has stopped and I think it gives me that ‘glow’ that dermatica tret never did.

However this may also be because I’ve decided to re incorporate acids. I was staying away as I know that you aren’t supposed to use too many with retinoids but my skin needs them unless I get closed comedones that develop into very painful cysts which then leave a lot of hyperpigmentation.

I think the azelaic acid and niacinamide in the formula are alsohelping a bit with my hyperpigmentation.

The Ordinary Peeling Solution is now in my routine once weekly and it really does work for me but I think I have leather skin because I know for some people it’s intolerable.

I’m prepared to give S&M a chance as seems like the mild irritation I’m experiencing is from azelaic and should settle down. The itching does worry me and my eyes have been watery/itchy too but that could be hayfever.

Thank you Village and Ts my Mum died last year but I don’t think it hit me properly at the time and the virus/lockdown brought some stuff to the surface. I don’t handle stress or pressure very well anymore and there’s a lot of that in my job which is making me think I need to get out.

In other news my Botox and fillers practioner has messaged to say they’re opening soon. I need to go back and ask some questions as I want my droopy mouth doing urgently but obviously I won’t be able to wear a mask.

sallie this year I ended up having to get a prescription for hay fever, when usually the over the counter medication works just fine, so it may be hay fever. Really hope I can get to see my mom this year but a trip to California doesn't seem likely. But I know what you mean about making changes - my work never let anyone work from home on a regular basis, and now they have admitted there hasn't been any decrease in production. Personally I don't enjoy only working from home, then again not sure I've ever really done it as juggling 3 children . But I do enjoy not rushing around like a mad woman, and it's sort of nice having their music lessons in the front room.

Hi all, I’m wondering if someone can please help me as you seem to know an awful lot about skincare.
I’m mid forties and happy enough with my face but my neck is another story and it’s really getting me down. My neck has basically no elasticity left, it’s shocking. I think part of the reason is because I’m quite slim but I’m not underweight so don’t really want to put on more weight, but my neck looks so crepey and I’ve tried all sorts of moisturisers and hyaluronic acid and nothing seems to make a difference . Please could someone suggest something?

Welcome, Loo, how sensitive is your neck? Have you tried any sort of Retinoids? How much money would you consider spending as at this point a non invasive procedure may be the better option?

Trying to catch up in some form.

Connie, tinted Frezyderm, I liked it but it was too dark for me and it had a fair bit of coverage. I ended up mixing it with the untinted.

Cinammon interesting about the Tret glow and not having that with Dermatica. I really should read up on micro tretinoin and the differences.

Sorry to hear so many of you have been struggling through the lockdown.

@botemp hi, thanks , not really sensitive at all really. I’ve been using the ordinary retinol 1% in Squalene for about 8. weeks and I don’t see any difference. I Think I could afford a couple of hundred but that’s probably not going to be enough for any sort of procedures

Ok if not sensitive then you're probably better off going the prescription tretinoin route. Either through Dermatica, gentler and necks are generally not all that tolerant, or skin+me which is a more traditional formulation but it may be too much for your neck. Daily SPF50 mandatory with those. It won't show radical improvements all that quickly though and the improvement will be limited.

Other options are laser (Debbie Thomas has the prices of the packages online although it's face focused but I think it includes the neck area, it's a lot of money upfront but considering it's several sessions it actually isn't that unreasonable), sculptra fillers (probably starts at a couple hundred to a thousand but you'll likely need more sessions, probably comes out quite expensive in the long run but quickest non surgical fix) and ultherapy (I'm not sure on the price of this, it's not for everyone and can be considered painful).

@botemp thank u for your help, will give the tretinoin a go and see if it helps. How long do u think I should give it? Otherwise will look into clinics close to me that offer laser as that sounds the most affordable (and least scary) option.

Frezyderm SPF has arrived! Love the consistency and it's super matt! Doesn't look or feel like you've got anything on! Made my eyes a bit watery but could have been a bit of hay fever so will need to assess over next few days. Fingers crossed skin will like it!🤞🏻

Cerave for KP - Was liking it and def reduced KP on upper arms and there was much less redness but have realised it's causing spots on my forearms, particularly my left one. Weirdly fine on my upper arms and legs just forearms. The spots were weird not like normal spots very red. I thought it was a bit of KP at first and spots were random but it's become apparent that it's the Cerave. Stopped using it and spots have almost gone thankfully.

Any other options for KP on arms?

😊