🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

That's some quality testing. Let's take a (poluting) flight to test sunscreens with no scientific framework for a throwaway lifestyle article (in its defense, years later you're still remembering it) in the name of the environment

It's very hard being a dogooder in this world. You either don't swim in the ocean anymore or you wear a UV protective wetsuit instead but those are usually made of polyester and that releases microplastics every time it gets wet. Or just go without, potentially get skin cancer and die which drastically reduces your carbon footprint...

The sunscreen and reefs thing is very political. The right decision would be just to ward people from these areas, it's more than sunscreen doing the damage but these places exist on tourism so it's not really an option. Making sunscreens the boogy man is an easy way to score political points without addressing the issue. Sigh.

That looks quite nice Client, I've been meaning to try their cica sleeping mask as the cica line is fragrance free. This goes for aha as well as pha, when they're formulated at a higher pH like in a cream they're less exfoliating and potentially irritating and are more like really effective humectants.

Hi Kersh. Parabens are nothing to be scared of, during pregnancy or not. Can you write your routine as it used to be with the Boots products so we can think of comparable items. There is a EU Boots site, I'm not sure if you have access to it in France too. It's not as expansive as the UK one but it has the speciality brands like no 7, indeed labs, soap and glory, etc.

Morning:
Wash with Garnier micellar solution
Cleanse with LRP Toleriane cleanser
Boots Protect and Perfect intense serum
Boots Protect and Perfect Daily moisturiser

Evening:
Same as morning except I used Pixi glow tonic 2-3 times a week and I use the Night moisturiser for Boots.

I very rarely put water on my face as it immediately dries it out and feels very tight.

In terms of SPF, I work from home so don't put it on systematically. I use normal sunscreen when going out for prolonged periods - so exercise, shopping or out and about. I am very fair and prone to burning and live in the south of France so quite careful about the sun.

I never wear foundation and only very occasionally wear make up. I'm 38 if that helps at all.

@Connie5858 I also have the pale face tanned arms issue. Day to day I just leave it as it doesn't bother me to much but if I'm wearing makeup I have two shades and usually just mix in the darker until it matches my current tan level then a bit of bronzer on the cheeks and you can't really tell.
I am pretty pale though my version of tanned in still only the 3rd lightest foundation shade usually. If you're naturally darker it might be harder to hide

@botemp it's lovely and cheap too. Would be rubbish if you were oily but for irritation, dry and tret face its great!

Thanks @botemp - Uneven as in redness and patches yes. I also have darker tone around my nose and mouth and I've always had big pores. I have taken a couple of photos which show some of that. It doesn't look at its worst right now, but you can see some of the flaky bits on the photos - I hope you don't mind me posting them for you to look at. I really appreciate your advice. I will order something with urea in it. I actually have some lactic acid from the Ordinary (I'll have to check the percentage) so maybe I'll do a week or so of skin repair and then try that.

I use an spf 50 standalone sunscreen every day, and I'm not a sun person at all - I'm that person sat in the shade with a big hat on whilst everyone else is sunbathing!

Iwould I am not qualified at all so I'd always recommend seeing your GP for this, but it does look like you have mild rosacea but I'd expect it to have been much more irritated by daily manual exfoliation so it may very well be something else. Do you get little raised bumps of white horny (I know, I know, but it's the technical term) skin, it could be keratosis pilaris and then the daily exfoliating makes sense. I know GPs aren't the easiest to visit right now but I would scale back as much as possible until you can.

Don't use lactic acid until your skin is healed from the glycolic and has gone through a full skin cycle. Stick to a simple routine of cleanse, moisturise, SPF (minus the SPF at night) for at least two weeks but, really, ideally 6-8. It's great you're already using sunscreen. What cleanser are you using?

Kersh, I'm going to have to look those products up so I'll get back to you later (tonight, hopefully). Were you experiencing the dry tight feeling with those products as well or is that due to the recent products? What are you using now, btw?

Thanks @botemp that's so kind of you.

I've always reacted badly to water - it just gives me a horrible right feeling no mister what products I use. I always have to moisturise straight after coming out of the shower even if I've already moisturised.

At the moment I'm using nothing (for the last 4 months) except the micellar water and the LRP toleriane cleanser. But I think I really need something, my skin is flaking all over the cheeks and I'm starting to get really noticeable fine lines around my eyes and mouth. Also getting spots, but suspect that's pregnancy hormones!!

That's really frustrating Kersh and a bit difficult to tackle as you seem to be very dehydrated possibly dry as the products you used were on the richer side but now you also have hormonal skin. I think the only point of difference the protect and protect range has is the peptides. Olay has that too and you should be able to get that in France, but maybe keeping it simple and addressing the current issues of dehydration is better for now?

Not a French brand but you should be able to get hold of the Eucerin Urea 5% face cream. That's not too heavy but should help with the flaking. Can you handle watery serums at all?

SPF, even if you're indoors should really be used at all times, especially somewhere as sunny as the south of France.

Thanks @botemp. It's def not keratosis. It's more like scaly patches that flake off, it's just they flake off almost constantly and nothing I do seems to get rid of them. Even before the glycolic acid usage started I had them and was just scrubbing them away every day but that was leaving my skin inflamed. I was hoping the glycolic acid might strip the flaky layer back, so to speak. But that doesn't seem to be happening :( My skin has been increasingly red over the last few months and goes especially red as soon as I have any alcohol, which never used to happen. I suspect it might be related to hormonal changes because I had a few rounds of ivf. But that stopped months ago and it's never settled back down. I will look in to rosacea and products to help.

I have 2 cleansers on the go currently - both oil based and both completely natural. One is a brand called Moo Goo that a friend in Australia sent me. The other is by Emmaline Tsui - a facialist who lives near me and makes her own product. Both are the massage in, remove with damp cloth types and I double cleanse at night.

Oil cleanser sounds good with all the dry flakiness. The alcohol trigger is a very common rosacea trigger, especially red wine and the flaking happens too but not for everyone. You're about the age that it tends to mainfest itself. I do think it's best to see a GP about it just to get it diagnosed and a possible treatment. Ask for Soolantra, although most GPs will not be familiar with it, if they're unhelpful you can get it through online pharmacies after an online consult (free, I believe). In the meantime it means being as gentle as possible with your skin, even with how your hands touch it, pat rather than rub in product and don't massage too aggressively.

@botemp I'm not sure about watery serums, but certainly ready to try anything. I have had issues with pilling with some moisturisers but I've never known why some and not others.

So what would you recommend as a routine ? The Olay in the morning and the Eucerin in the evenings? I've used LRP Anthelios fluid in the past. Would that work even on days I don't leave the flat?

Thanks again for your help.

[quote kersh33]@botemp I'm not sure about watery serums, but certainly ready to try anything. I have had issues with pilling with some moisturisers but I've never known why some and not others.

So what would you recommend as a routine ? The Olay in the morning and the Eucerin in the evenings? I've used LRP Anthelios fluid in the past. Would that work even on days I don't leave the flat?

Thanks again for your help. [/quote]
Any SPF over 15, ideally 30, will do.

Plling will be down to certain ingredient combinations, usually silicones. I just mentioned Olay as they're easily accessible with the same peptides as Boots P&P, but tbh they're not the most amazing skincare ingredient. I'd just use the Eucerin daty and night for now.

I did notice the night cream you used had a Retinoid (retinyl palmitate) but one I'd generally avoid. Do you want a Retinoid back in again, maybe better to get on that after the summer once you've got products that are working for you. I was thinking the Vichy Mineral 89 serum might work for you, but it's very watery. You should be able to source a sample easily in any parapharmacie and it also comes in a baby trial size.

Iwould if you can I'd ditch the cloths during your cleaning routine and just use fingertips, gently. Also pat dry gently with a towel (no fabric conditioner as best with towels anyway). I change it for a fresh one every 3 days.

Also tepid water only, and try to avoid putting your face directly under hot shower water too.

I have very mild rosacea but it's very under control now. I do avoid my triggers which are red wine, changes in temperature, wind, spicy foods. Intense exercise/running not the best but non negotiable for my mental/physical health but I've cut back to once/twice per week with weight training the rest of the time.

DS still having blackhead issues on his nose. I get confused with the PC acids. Which is the best selling one that's good for blackheads please?

Pupsie - the 2% with Salicylic acid? It is helping DD1.

Is this the one you mean?

@botemp The Vichy serum looks really good - will definitely give that a go. Have ordered the Eucerin and will see how I get on.

Thank you very much for your advice - it's so kind of you to take the time and share your knowledge and experience.

Is that this one mrobama? There is a gel too.

www.paulaschoice.co.uk/skin-perfecting-bha-liquid-exfoliant-m2010.html?dwvar_m2010_size=fullsize&cgid=bha-salicylic-acid#start=0&top=502.3333511352539

pupsie - yes - didn't realise there was a gel...

That's the one DD has been using for about a week. It's definitely helping - she can't tolerate benzoyl peroxide for some reason. Am wondering if there is a salicylic acid product, other than TO that would be effective?

Effective how MrObama? You mean another BHA product alongside the perfecting liquid (yes, that's the one Pupsie, the gel is okay, too, easier to use for teens as you can just spread it on, there's also an acne version for oily skin)? There are BHA cleansers and they are effective unlike most other acid containing cleansers.

You're welcome Kersh, hope your skin starts feeling a bit better soon and keep well with the pregnancy

Botemps - My very limited understanding is that salicylic acid can be effective for acne/blackheads as it has a drying feature.

The PC BHA 2% is helping, which I understand has an element of salicylic acid in it...

Apologies if I got my terms mixed up...

I'm still somewhat confused, the 2% refers to the percentage of BHA in the product. BHA= salycilic acid.

It's not effective because it dries anything out, it's effective because it's oil soluble so penetrates deeply (AHA tend to work on the surface level, ie. dead skin cell exfoliation) and dislodges all the plugs and other muck in pores and spots and encourages it out.

It can be drying as a side effect but a well formulated product makes adjustments for that, but it can be helpful, for example the BHA in Paula's Choice acne line is a little more drying than the perfecting liquid as it works better on oily skin without that adjustment, but it's not the drying effect that makes it effective, if that makes sense.

Thanks @Pupsiecola - I will do that. I'm a runner too and do get incredibly red after intensive exercise, to an embarrassing extent. And it takes forever to go down.

Bo yes he sporadically uses one of my three acids (which I'm not using atm due to the retinol). But I thought I'd try him with the PC travel size. If I get him his own for his own bathroom he's more likely to use it regularly as he's pretty good at sticking to his routine. Currently he relies on me doing his acid and as I said, it's very sporadic.

I had a facial booked for him before lockdown: my local salon said she could just adapt one to suit his needs, so not all bells and whistles. I'm hoping to be able to rebook once we are able (and she has space!).

pupsie do you get your ds to wear SPF? I use BHA/salicylic wash on my sons skin (neutrogena)) and I’ve just got some LRP effaclar duo, to use on his chin which has blackheads and spots. The rest of his skin isn’t bad.

I’ve bought some Heliocare tinted oil free gel today on skincity 20% off this weekend. Ive been using up a sample of it and wear it without any other makeup on days I’m at home. Works well for me and doesn’t increase oiliness or irritate eyes.