🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

Hi and welcome, kitty, I suspect this isn't really the answer you were hoping for. It's not something that can really be effectively treated with things you can just buy. Ideally she'd see a dermatologist in person to rule out it's not skin cancer before treating and then either go down the prescription route of tretinoin and hydroquinone (which may be too much for her sensitive skin but a dermatologist will know best), laser, or a series of professional grade peels. Or a combination of some of those. As you can imagine that doesn't come cheap.

An affordable alternative would be to go through Dermatica which is an online dermatologist service, you pay a little over £20 monthly for the prescription of Tret/hydroquinone and there's no consultant fee. You can stop and start, delay, whenever you want so it's not a huge commitment but I wouldn't be able to tell you how well they screen for potential skin cancer (I don't mean to scare monger, it probably is just age spots) as they only really look at the photos you send in.

Best advice I can give regardless of all the above options is, sunscreen, sunscreen, sunscreen. It will hopefully prevent future age spots and hopefully limit what's there now.

Not skin related but can anyone advise re hair care? I never quite know what 'problem' to tackle when I buy shampoo and conditioner. It's coloured, dry ends and wavy (but more frizzy than nice waves). I've been using Aveda Smooth Infusions shampoo and conditioner but it's just ok.

I work from home so most days I wash then leave to dry naturally. Any recommendations for a shampoo and conditioner that won't strip my colour, stop the ends getting too dry and will give nice waves with minimal frizz, plus a styling product.

Hi botemp, thank you so much for your reply. I will pass on all the information you've given me, and see where she wants to go from there. Thanks again for taking the time.

Tattie as your hair is wavy and prone to frizz it might be worth reading some of the posts on this thread marked CGM (curly girl method) and checking out the new haircare thread Bo started.

I have wavy hair that’s coloured and is thick/coarse and very prone to frizz, CGM didn’t do much for me but it does work for some wavy haired people like Pupsie

My scalp is dry/sensitive/easily irritated so I use Eucerin shampoo and scalp tonic, followed by leave in conditioner (garnier) on the lengths and argan oil on dry hair to combat frizz. That’s pretty much it, the thing that really works best for me is not washing it too often but I know that’s not possible for everyone.

@TattiePants I've been away from the thread this weekend so just catching up - I've got some Verso eye serum if you'd still like a sample?

@botemp I ’m having a hard time finding the simple cleansing oil in stock... do you have any other first cleanse budget friendly suggestions please? I’ve got a basket going on look fantastic so can add to that.
Thank you in advance for any suggestions.

P.s sorry for posting in the last thread I hadn’t seen this one had been made.

Cake I answered you in the previous thread 🙈

Thanks @botemp I’ll put it on my birthday list

This is such a great thread! Please could you help me with my products too please? I use

Morning
Cleanser - Eve Lom
Ordinary hydrolonic acid
Ordinary buffet
Dr sebagh eye cream
Am using up a load of moisturisers - so Dr Sebagh, Origins, Sisley

Pm
Cleanser - Eve Lom
Ordinary - granactive retinoid or mandalic acixld
Ordinary buffet
Dr sebagh eye cream
Any of the moisturisers

Once a week I use up a pile of face masks - rodial hangover, dr sebagh rose, nip tuck. Sisley black rose

Ive gone from using really expensive ones to the ordinary and have generally been happy but would like my skin to glow and look smoother.

I have no lines or wrinkles but have dehydrated skin

Thank you in advance!

Good, you found us again Newhouse

Things that stood out for me in your routine:

Oil cleansing in the morning is a bit excessive, it's a bit of sweat and product from the night before. Depending on skin type it can be removed with water or just a gentle cleanser.

The ordinary buffet right after the hyaluronic is a bit pointless, they're essentially the same thing except buffet has some peptides added to it.

I'm missing a daily SPF in the AM 😱

For glow and a smoother texture you'll have to incorporate a vitamin c serum (I like Timeless, not Ordinary price point but not the expensive price point of the brands you used to use either, get it from their UK site) and an acid exfoliator but I'm going to insist on an SPF before that. Have you ever used either?

Bo - quick query about sunscreen. In the advice sheet, you recommend a broad spectrum stand alone. There is a brilliant Avene moisturiser that has 25 SPF in it. It ticks the broad spectrum, I think, but not the stand alone. I am a huge Avene fan, although am moving more in the LRP circles at the moment, have always found the Avene Recovery creme quite good.

Anyway, am quite liking the Neostrata you suggested, probably more than Heliocare Gel as it's a sheer tint. Am quite fair, blue eyes, but dark hair, so getting a matching skin tone is tricky.

I'm not sure what you're asking MrObama, if the Avene counts as a standalone? No, but you can always weat it underneath, won't add to your protection, you'll get SPF of whatever highest you put on.

Botemps Sorry for being unclear - think I don't fully understand why a moisturiser stating that it's 25 SPF would need another SPF on top? Apologies if I don't get the obvious...

I have always used separate SPFs, although during summer may use a BB cream with an SPF

It has to do with how much you use. SPF is calculated at a certain amount a of protection per cm2 but things like moisturiser and makeup are never used at those amounts, you'd need loads more and you'd look a bit questionable but you'd get your SPF 25 then. Realistically you're probably getting a third, at best, of the advertised SPF on moisturisers and SPF.

Isn't it a teaspoon of SPF for the face in terms of amount. Your guide of getting through a bottle a month is a good one Bo. (Obviously small, face specific sized bottle).

I think it is Pupsie, but it's not a very helpful guide because some sunscreens are a lot lighter or fluid than others, it's generalising weight as volume when that's not constant. I prefer the Japanese guidelines of line on middle and forefinger, apply, then repeat for a second layer. It obviously only works for sunscreens with the more narrow nozzles and consistency that's not too liquidly (although I have managed with some) or too gloopy. I really wish more would come in pumps with the clear guidance how many pumps should cover the average face.

*correction to the previous post:

Realistically you're probably getting a third, at best, of the advertised SPF on moisturisers and SPF.

Should be:

Realistically you're probably getting a third, at best, of the advertised SPF on moisturisers and makeup with SPF.

I have this which is a great primer, I like to use it in addition to SPF. The primer part of it is good so the SPF is a bonus!

I think for me Bo the bottle in a month just serves as "crap, this one has been going for a while, I need to check I'm using enough". I agree, why don't they come in the same packaging as the DE and KS moisturisers?!

Thanks for your advice Bo!

Ive ordered the Timeless Vitamin C which ive seen recommended on here

Re SPF - I stupidly rarely use it as I have brown (Asian) skin and a babyish face . From reading these threads i should order some SPF too.

Should i switch out my Ordinary products for another brand when they run out? I wasnt sure where to start

Is Pixi an acid exfoilator - or could you recommend me one please? Ive also got some Nip Fab gycolic pads to use up not sure if they are any use.

Will be glad to finish up my odds and ends and to start again with fresh products!

Early days, but DD1's skin is looking way way better, so thank you all . The geek in her loves the Neutragena laser....

Am fairly happy with my routine, but want to up the BHA to address the pigmentation from living in California when we didn't use sunscreen

Using PC 1% at the moment, but should I consider a higher strength or bite the bullet and go straight to P50? Went to website and did the consultation where P50W was suggested..

Is there any sort of chemical at all I can slather on my eyebrows to make them less bristly? The bane of my fecking life they are.

I should be receiving my first months Tretinoin 0.025% / Hydroquinone 4% cream from Dermatica in a few days
I’ll probably start off applying every other night and see how my skin tolerates it.
Any other tips for application? Will I need a ‘richer’ moisturiser to help with dryness/peeling? Hoping to avoid a flakey face if it’s possible!
Does anyone have a recommendation for a good mineral spf? I know it’s a lot to do with personal preference but I’d like something that doesn’t feel heavy and makeup applies nicely on top. I know you get what you pay for but max budget is £20-£30. Thank you!

Newhouse, acid exfoliator rec depends on budget (it's harder on the very low side), pixi and nip and fab are acid exfoliators but I don't recommend either. Have you used those before? Since you have darker skin it's probably best to avoid glycolic acid (potential pigmentation issues in skin with higher percentage of melanin) but others should be fine.

The Ordinary, personally not the biggest fan as the low price point (which in some cases isn't even low when you calculate the /ml price and compare it to others) means they've economised out absolutely everything which makes the formula quite crude (so you have to buy additional the ordinary products to address the impact of that) and they also maintain their low prices by constantly switching out suppliers for the lowest price. Not a fan of that from a business POV as it's a bit of a race to the bottom but it also means the product formula isn't consistent, so your experience with the product will be with each potential new bottle too. Despite the ingredient name being the same they can vary wildly from one supplier to the next. We've had bad reactions to products going off on here and more recently they've had to take their BHA off the market as it caused major (potentially permanent) damage by burning people's face. Considering that BHA is one of the gentlest acid exfoliators, it's quite a feat (for very wrong reasons, obviously). Please don't be put off by acid exfoliators, it's a really out of the norm reaction, most of them can be used safely without issue, especially if you go with a trusted manufacturer, although obviously mistakes can be made anywhere.

Asian skin probably needs SPF just as much as fair Celtic skin, especially with age. Different impact, less wrinkles and fine lines like with Caucasian skin but moreso pigmentation and generally looking a bit 'ashy'.

MrObama, pigmentation is a tough one. As a general rule, for about as long as it took to appear since damage, that's about as long as it takes to get rid. BHA isn't really one for tackling pigmentation, although feel free to level up, the calm 1% is very timid in comparison to the 2% Perfecting Liquid. P50 has a special pigmentation version which I use but not for the pigmentation as I've not noticed it impact that at all, I use it because I needed something less strong with Tret without dropping to the W version (which is a bit mealy when you're used to full strength). Did you start on Dermatica too, as it would be the most efficient to get on the Tret/hydroquinone power duo for pigmentation. Otherwise laser and dermatologists procedures. There's a few other ingredients, vitamin c, kojic acid, soy, niacinamide, but their impact is small and often more preventative of further pigmentation.

So happy to hear your DD's skin is improving already

Heart, generally it is helpful to have a richer cream on standby but you won't necessarily need it straight away, although your introduction frequency is on the high side. Usually it's 2x a week and move up from there.

Do you want a tinted SPF or can you get away with untinted and potentially a light white cast? I would get used to the idea of not wearing makeup though, when you're peeling you look way better without makeup than with.