🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Vanities Are The New Shelf Porn

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

MAY 2020: We're in lockdown and it's doing weird things to our faces

@botemps ....so if you use BHA on your KP do you also sun cream your body (ias well as your face and décolletage) everyday including in winter? Obviously only the bits that were not covered by clothing.

Does manual exfoliation also cause sun sensitivity then?

Is that the Hyalu one MrObama, I think that has alcohol denatured (very drying) as one of the first few ingredients. Possibly fragrance too, I gave LRP the massive side eye for that. Cicaplast B5 is much loved on here in contrast.

Curse you Client I'm having black plastic every-EFFING-where flashbacks. And now I want one anyway. With extra sequins 😣 I'm not sure it's of any use with my barely visible lid space with that finish though. What is that finish, satin, foil, something else? Code doesn't seem to work for me

Mini, well, regardless of BHA you probably should be wearing SPF on the body for skin cancer prevention reasons. But yes with the BHA it's sensible too, although I don't think many have their arms out in winter. As for legs, I suppose in very sheer tights you technically should, probably, but, shyeah, that seems a little much.

Manual exfoliation less so, it jus removed what was already loose, chemical exfoliators work by breaking down the bonds that hold that loosening layer of dead skin (it accelerates the process prematurely) together so it removes a lot more.

There are nicer SPFs for the body to use though. I have one from Vichy (fragranced but since I don't use it that much I'm okay with it) that is pretty much water that you sprits on and rub in, none of the thick gloopy nonsense. I also use one from Suncover which is quite affordable and light, it's a local dermatologist researcher's brand but you can order it from the UK too, not sure on the shipping. Proceeds of the SPF go to a charity. Both SPF 30, which works fine for me most of the time (I am not of the incredibly fair, Tippex is my shade match, sort though).

Sorry, I'm not being clear, yes manual exfoliation increases the possibility of sun damage but far less than chemical exfoliants. But manual exfoliation has a whole host of other issues that make it undesirable.

Bo - yup, that's the one, and would seem that I heaped praise too soon as got a reaction later.

@Pupsiecola - Have you tried the Lustre on your DS spots? It's a blue light device, and looking for advice mostly. DD 13 up until about 3 months ago had lovely skin and almost overnight has terrible spots, mostly on the T zone. She is using my LRP dermo cleanser, and a benzoyl peroxide which has been successful in the past, but another flare up, which is quite distressing for her, even if she doesn't really go anywhere. The blue light treatment has been successful in the past at dermatologists, so wondering if this device is worth the money...

No I haven't MrObama. They seem to be settling down a bit although still a few blackheads on the nose. He's just grown like mad: I'm now the least tall in the family which is odd.

MrObama, there is a fair bit of evidence for blue led therapy. It's probably cheaper to get the Neutrogena mask to try it, it's expensive in the long run as you keep needing to buy some part for it or something but that may be in the US only. Think it was the 'activator' it also came as a pen at some point. Some critics do warn about safety aspects of blue led therapy so it's not entirely innocent.

I hope the reaction is not too bad. It's getting the double side eye from me now

Dr Dennis gross also do the pen, think it wasn't crazy expensive either.

Bo - thank you for the Neutragena suggestion. Have found this, which doesn't seem to require any accessories.

light therapy spot treatment

Pupsie - I know! DD1 is taller than me, but I am still taller than DD2 and DS, so not quite the shortest, but alarming when you have to ask your DC to reach things in the cupboard

Hi all

Found this in my stash. Sorry for the stupid question but how do I know if it's oil based or a cream cleanser so I know which part of my cleanse to use it in?

www.superdrug.com/Skin/Face-Skin-Care/Cleansers/Superdrug-Naturally-Radiant-Hot-Cloth-Face-Cleanser-150ml/p/516251

Oh and also found a bottle of this so also wondering where I could substitute them in unless anyone says they are rubbish! Lockdown clear-out...

www.simple.co.uk/products/face-cleansers-and-toners/kind-to-skin-micellar-cleansing-water.html

Anything marketed as hot cloth cleanser is usually occlusive heavy and a first cleanser. That naturally radiant one is a bit of a hybrid, it's sort of a first and second cleanser in one. Cream based usually has water as the first ingredient and oil based cleansers usually has no water in, although that's not a set rule, but the upper third of the INCI will be oils or ingredients that act like oils like caprylic/capric triglyceride.

Micellar water I usually only recommend for eye makeup removal, or if you can't use oil cleansers as a first cleanse.

As mentioned previously, if you're not using things/don't really want/need things anymore you can always donate to refuge shelters so long as they're unopened (not sure if they're accepting now with Covid19 though). Although they like travel size things best so if you have a drawer full of stolen unused hotel minis they'll be thrilled.

Thanks @botemp

I had to google occlusive 😂

I see what you mean about the inci list. Water first on both! Thanks so much. Good point about giving away.

I tend to remember it like this:

Occlusive sounds like oppressive ie. there to lock thing in. Heavy/weighty things, so oils, silicones, butters, waxes, fatty alcohols, etc. that will leave an oppressive film.

Humectants, easier to remember as that already sounds hydrating but as a group they're more effort to remember them all as they contain sugar alcohols, proteins and their parts (amino acids), AHAs, ceramides, aloe, etc. It's a lot and not always immediately clear, eg. Urea is an amino acid but always just listed as urea.

Emollients, I remember the double l in it as 'likes lipids', it's somewhat of a subsection of occlusives and can also include humectants but usually if something is described as emollient it's best for skin that 'likes lipids' so dry and/or barrier damaged skin. Lipids are the natural fats in our skin, so if your skin likes them it's usually low on them and adding more helps keep water locked in. Emollient ingredients can be a humectant or an occlusive so it's a confusing term.

Another confusing term I tend to avoid using is 'moisturising' as this just means getting water into skin but there's not a set method or specific set of ingredients for this. For some it'll be heavy on occlusives and lower on humectants so would be something greasy whereas for others it will be a different balance for example one of those light weight gel moisturisers but it would all be called moisturising and one product would be useless on the other and vice versa.

Micellar water is a bit of a different kettle of fish as it's water that's been charged to act like an oil but I've already lectured enough for one day 🤣

Bo what's the Vichy SPF for the body you mentioned upthread? I can't find an SPF40 on the Boots website... ty

Thanks @botemp. I do wear sun cream on my body religiously when leaving the house in the summer as I am super pale and burn at the slightest hint of sun and do not tan. What I was concerned about is that for the face you recommend wearing it all year round including indoors (which I have now started doing 😊) abd was wondering if the same was needed for body if using BHA.

The reason I asked about manual exfoliation was because I’ve manually exfoliated my body forever (stopping this on face and trialling not doing this on body to see how this goes) but I don’t wear sunscreen on bod all year round (I only put this on when UV is medium or higher and I am going to be outside).

I do sometimes bear arms (not the weaponry kind lol!) in winter indoors due to working somewhere that’s quite hot and I sit by a window. 😙 So it sounds like I should be putting sunscreen on at least on my BHA’d bits all the time.

I hate the feel of sunscreen and it’s a pain to put on but will check out the ones you suggest as if easier and doesn’t feel horrible more likely to do it!

I am super super sensitive to sunscreen. Have tried millions of different ones over the years and all of them cause rashes or really bad breakouts. I currently use Green People which is the only one I have found that doesn’t do that so I’ve used this for the last few years. It feels horrible on the skin though. Having read your sunscreen document it doesn’t contain the chemical sunscreens you recommend (it’s also mineral). So have just ordered another one from Tropic skincare (as I know their products generally suit my skin and I can return them if I react and they are not suitable) and they also use the chemical sunscreens you recommend. Not sure if I’ll be ok with them as skin is sensitive (as per your document) but will try them and see.

Will also check out your sunscreen recommendations. I like the sound of the Vichy one’s watery nature but as it has fragrance I strongly suspect my skin won’t like it 😢

Thanks again for your fab advice.

I’ll report back!!

This one, both. It's SPF30, not 40, if I said 40 then it was a typo, sorry.

Any chance you know if the glass at your office has been UV treated? I'd say it's a marginal risk but a risk nonetheless an SPF 15 would easily cover the impact. There are some body lotions with SPF in, that could maybe work?

Evtremely helpful explanation thank you. I've screenshot'd for future reference!!!

I wear no SPF at work as I'm in a building with no windows to the outside so practically a vampire
Micellar water I use as a sort of first cleanse I guess, I take off eye makeup and the worst of foundation with it and then cleanse properly

Currently WFH so it's very strange to see outside!

@botemp I have that Vichy sunscreen and was hoping to use it on my face over the top of makeup eg to top up later in the day when my morning SPF might be wearing off. Would that work or is there a reason you only use it on your body? I haven't needed to use it yet since I'm nit wearing makeup at the minute.

Forgot to add this was the over makeup SPF I originally wanted but was out of stock at the time, would this be better?

It's really different Tattie it's quite a hard and direct spray as opposed to a mist. You need to spritz it on and then run it out. It also gives a bit of a sheen which looks nice on the body but I doubt it'll look good on the face.

Client, did you see my question about the finish of those eye shadows? I'm not sure how useful they'd be with my limited lid space.

@botemp just seen! Apparently it's 4 metallic and 1 matte with a bit of shimmer

I don't think I've ever had metallic. It's not the same as that pearlescent shimmer, is it?

I just want to know how far from space it'll be visible, basically...

Found some swatches