🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Is Everyone Having Botox Without Me? 💉

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

December 2019: Time for The Snailies way more reliable and better than the MN recommends annual roundup (yes I'm still bitter about them quoting me in isolation and making me sound like a wanker please don't revoke my special image allowance privileges, MNHQ )

Also: Thread 20 in time for 2020!!! Ahem, where are my presents?

@botemp have you seen the Sunday Riley hair rinse? I remembered we were talking about BHA/AHA in hair care and it popped up on Instagram

Thanks Client, I'm not a huge fan of SR as a business but it's interesting everyone is jumping on the haircare actives all of a sudden.

I've discovered a bit of a CG game changer by applying foam over my gel instead of under. It's worked a little too well though, it's ridiculously springy and defined which looks a bit unnatural with waves. I'm hoping if I just leave it, it'll settle down a bit.

Have you tried anything by Innersense by any chance?

Fete, normal moisturisers you have are fine. No need for anything heavy, the only problem you might have is because your face is so much more damp it'll dilute the moisturiser, so you're probably using less as it spreads so easily and get a fair amount on your hands as it doesn't absorb as quickly. It's not an issue for everyone and it will do the minimum of locking in the hydration anyhow.

Probably the only brand I haven't tried as it seems quite spendy and nothing really grabbed me

Yeah that's my issue with it, they do travel sizes and it seems fine to try at those prices but if I really like something I don't want to pay that the premium for something that you'll probably go through quite quickly, especially since I apply to soaking wet hair. They say you need less though so it might work out ok, but I'm still somewhat cautious.

My dermatica has arrived. It’s a combined product of niacinamide and tretinoin (I hadn’t given it much thought but somehow didn’t expect the one product).

Yeah they just stick it all in one. It's quite common here for dermatologists to prescribe tretinoin with MAP vitamin C in it and the pharmacists just rustle it up.

Fete, this might be of interest for your sister.

Hello, may I ask you wise women a question about SPF and burning sensations? When I apply SPF (various brands including Murad, La Roche-Posay Cicaplast and a Bioderma cica-type one) I instantly get a burning sensation especially on my cheekbone area. Why would this be? Is there a particular ingredient which could cause this? I thought the ones I was using were quite good non-chemically ones.

Hi pearl, I don't know which ones you're using exactly but the recognisable ones you mention specifically (LRP and Bioderma) are sunscreens with chemical filters and they can cause irritation/reaction in sensitive skin. Unless you want to try several SPFs to figure out which chemical sunscreen exactly it is that's causing irritation it's easier to just go with all physical sunscreens which are less likely to irritate.

Murad does have a physical sunscreen and I'm wondering whether that gave you a reaction too? Do you remember the name?

Hi botemp, thanks for replying so quickly. The Murad one is 'Oil-Free Sunscreen Broad Spectrum SP30/PA+++'.
I was under the misapprehension that the cica-type ones (LRP and Bioderma) were not chemical (don't know why, they just sounded 'natural'). I thought the LRP one especially was a zinc (physical?) one.
Today I used an Alpha-H SPF50 moisturiser and that was fine, no burning sensation, but it doesn't mention 'broad spectrum' (mind you the others don't either) so that's not good is it?
Also I've had it (the Alpha-H) a couple of years (unopened) and there's no expiry date on it so I'm worried it's not providing any protection anymore anyway.

botemp - I've just looked at the Murad tube and it says 'contains Benzophenone-3'. Could that be a culprit? Don't know what the other ingredients are as they must have been on the box (not the tube) which I no longer have.

I agree it would make more sense that the cica/repair sunscreens would be physical but for whatever reason they're not. There isn't anything jumping out in the three that's present in all three and not in the alpha h. Potentially oxybenzone/benzophenone-3, it's a disputed ingredient and can cause allergies in some but it's only in the Murad. In the US they don't have access to a lot of filters otherwise I think this one would have been phased out already, you don't see it much outside the US anyhow. Octinoxate may be another irritant for you but honestly it's a lot easier to just use mineral or the alpha h which you know works for you. The alpha h is technically a moisturiser so in that sense less ideal as you may not be using enough to get the advertised coverage and may very well not be covering you broadly.

'Broad spectrum' is a term predominantly used in the US and has different criteria to us (a lower standard, it's basically 'some' UVA protection). You want to see a circle around the UVA. There's also the star system in the UK but it's very dodgy (an SPF30 can come up higher rated than an SPF50 despite having better UVA protection). See attached for all other markers for UVA, in Europe the consistent one is the circle, although the Japanese PA+ is becoming popular too, I only ever see PPD mentioned by Bioderma.

Sorry, I missed the bit about the alpha h being old, it may no longer be all that effective then and could potentially explain a lack of reaction as the filters may have deteriorated, or are only present in much lower amounts. Probably best to get something else in.

@botemp Will send my sis that video, thanks a lot.

I figured today that it’s not going to be possible to put sunscreen over make up once the world starts again. I would imagine if I put it on at 7.30am before school run, it’s not going to be very effective after lunch time? I ordered a La Roche Posay SPF mist that you can put on over make up to help with this. I just desperately want to not have to wear make up, if I had an even skin tone i’d happily not wear it for the school run.
Is it only really tret that’ll truly help with that? Right now I’m focusing on the introduction of Vit C, Hyaluronic acid and stepping up my sunscreen game. Eventually i’ll introduce Niacinamide and a weekly AHA exfoliant. I can’t go down the Dermatica route as i’m planing an embryo transfer as soon as restrictions start lifting (I’m thinking July/August) So it’s pointless starting, isn’t it? Even though I’m desperate too.

Unless you work outside you'll be like most of us here who put it on in the morning, work indoors with brief periods out and be fine. The LRP spray is very greasy so not the best, there was/is a Bioderma one that's almost like a water spray, it's difficult to find at the minute so hopefully it's just getting an upgrade as it was an SPF30. Tinted sunscreen is helpful too.

And no, tretinoin is not the cure for even skin tone. In fact, I'd argue that due to its temparemantal nature it's the least likely to help with this consistently. This goes for most actives tbh, you need to find the balance of not doing too much but enough to do something and that will be different for everyone. In general, being cautious and minimal rather than aggressive with excess products leads to better skin tone, it's a long game that requires a bit of hand sitting.

Just wondering what SPFs people are using at the moment/as we go into Summer?

I'm flitting between the trusty Biore Watery Essence and a Heliocare. I've not bougth a "new" SPF for a couple of years. Anything new of interest?

I'm using the body shop one, like it so far

@botemp Yes, I looked for the Bioderma but didn’t have much luck. It’s mainly because I walk to and from the school at drop off and pick up (Only drive if weather is bad) It’s a 20 min walk each way. Thinking a sunscreen top up would be beneficial, particularly in summer months.

Yeah, I can see from this thread that slow and steady wins the race. I guess i’ll have to be patient. Ageing is definitely a concern but hopefully next year i’ll be in a position to start the tret (I’ll be 36 then)

Been reading through the links in the OP. Interesting stuff.

I’m new to these threads and need help. I need to sort my dry, dull, middle aged with a bit of acne skin out.

I currently cleanse with water and soap or Pixi glow tonic (not sure that’s actually a cleanser). I use moisturiser with an spf. I have some hydralonic acid which I use a couple of times a week and some 2% retinoid which I use once or twice a week.

I’ve ordered a REN radiance perfecting serum which has vitamin C in it which I’m going to add in. I’ve also ordered some Biore watery essence spf.

Was thinking of ordering some La Roche Posy cleanser I saw recommended on one of the links.

So how does this sound for a plan...

AM.
La Roche posy cleanser
Pixi glow tonic
REN vitamin c serum
Moisturiser
Spf

Pm
La Roche posy cleanser
Some sort of acid......should I stick to either the hydralonic or the retinoid or should I mix it up? Can I use something every evening? What about BHA 2%?
Vit c serum
Night moisturiser

Does that sound like too many different things?

I’d say my skin is combination btw. I have a few problem spots just in one area (cheek).

I’ve joined the Dermatica wait list as well.

For info, I was only on the Dermatica waiting list for 6 days so not long at all. I've just completed my consultation now and the code up thread still works so that's the first month free. I expected it to take much longer so bought a retinol this week to start with so I'll try to use that up before I start with tret.

Pupsie I'm still using Skin Aqua Super Moisture Milk and Gel - but will probably switch to Frezyderm in May/June.. I got a Bioderma SPF 50 top-up spray from EPP a few weeks ago. It's similar to the LRP one but the texture is nicer, not so greasy.

Super speedy post - my rephr brushes! One has been used this morning hence the bristle colour

Sunscreen: I ended up buying this one int.eucerin.com/products/sun-protection/sun-fluid-photoaging-control-spf-50

It feels nice, I like it. Very non-oily.

Jacob The Pixi glow tonic is not a cleanser, it's actually more of an acid, like what you're thinking off getting for you evening routine. To be brutally honest, if you're not sure of what they are, you might be better off not using them - so you can have a think and decide what effects you want your products to have. An hyaluronic acid helps your skin attract moisure. Glycolic acid exfoliates. Retinols/retinoids don't count among the acids at all when we normally speak of them ...

Have you thought about double cleansing as a first step to shaking things up?

Tsm, can you link the Bioderma spray you got? I've seen a similar product to the Bioderma at Uriage but it contains fragrance.

There's not been much new in SPF land Pupsie, I just ordered two more Frezyderm from a Greek pharmacy (attempting to stop shopping with Amazon) they had a bunch of interesting SPFs but a lot don't have an inci available anywhere. Clinique has a new-ish mineral SPF that I liked but it's expensive for the tiny 30ml bottle.

Jacob, welcome. Tbh your intended routine sounds like far too much especially with Dermatica coming into it as well. Soap is not an ideal cleanser, the high pH makes the skin barrier vulnerable. Pixi glow tonic is not a cleanser even though it smells like soap although I have been known to do an acid cleanse in the morning when in a rush so it's not the end of the world but not really the best way.

The REN Vitamin C product is not really something I'd recommend, it contains a derivative of vitamin C which has less research behind it but more disturbingly alcohol denatured is the third ingredient. Considering you're using soap and glow tonic daily your skin can probably handle quite a bit but the flip side of that is that irritants don't really show themselves until much later and it's more difficult to pinpoint what the cause is. For example, the soap will be contributing to your experience of dry dull skin but it's probably just standard combination that's dehydrated, alcohol as a skincare ingredient doesn't help with that, it can be ok in some cases like sunscreens but otherwise is best avoided. Considering the biore sunscreen practically swims in alcohol as well it's probably not a good match in the morning and there's no need to use it twice a day (I wouldn't use it at all tbh but up to you).

In terms of extra products in the night time, I just wouldn't introduce anything new if you're going to use Tret in the short-ish term. I wouldn't even use pixi glow tonic with it (maybe occasionally, an acid exfoliator can sometimes help with the peeling but you kind of have to work up to it). For now, just cleanser, moisturiser, sunscreen, Tret and a hyaluronic acid you're confident/familiar enough to use until you've acclimated to the Tret, then consider adding in vitamin c, BHA or AHA as necessary (Tret is a pretty effective exfoliator so exfoliating acids aren't as crucial).

SPF has been ordered so I'm assuming you're not using one daily now. So that's the first thing to get sorted, one that you like and will use every day without complaint, have you ordered the Biore from a UK seller as it seems to be sold out everywhere? Swap out the soap for a cleanser, Cerave hydrating cleanser is usually the standard cleanser of choice these days on here as it's easier to get hold of than the specific LRP one. And an HA serum won't go amiss either, superdrug simply pure hydrating serum is good value for money and has the added bonus of barrier repair ingredients but it doesn't work for everyone, otherwise Vichy Mineral 89 is a safe bet.

Hello everyone. Just came across these threads as was looking to start adding in some serums as my skin is looking more and more crepey (neck and chest mainly) and I have chest wrinkles 😢.

Was thinking of adding in some vitamin c serum and perhaps retinol in the future.

I am already very careful about what ingredients I use on my face and have very sensitive skin that reacts to most products.

I have a limited budget.

I was thinking of trying the Viola vitamin C serum. It also contains HA. Any thoughts on this product. Ingredients seem reasonable when checked against EWG skin deep database.

Would welcome any advice. Thanks in advance for your time.

😊