Les Parisiennes des Mamansnet: Too much good taste can be very boring. Independent style, on the other hand, can be very inspiring.

[botemp]

Lovers of Parisian style and fashion with a conscious mindset and lots of chatter in between.

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Favoured Parisian addresses:

Second Hand Shops

Outlets

Favoured London addresses:

Charity Shops, Dress Agencies, and Outlets

Favoured NYC addresses:

Consignment shops, Vintage, and Restaurants

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Huit

Thank you for the feedback, good points all(except maybe red on lose the cami- the blouse is sheer!) Its made me realise I haven’t mastered brogues. I thought they would be easier to just wear with a range of things!

The fabworks wool is nice, fairly lightweight. It’s not as crazy as it sounds- nice tweed is a bit harder to come by in oz! And the big U.K. places like liberty for tana lawn do ship there pretty easily.
I’d love to see your clothes too whoeats
That article about Parisian women being miserable does make you wonder.

The article about Parisian women makes me come back to what I said in one of the original threads, I use aspects of Parisian (or any other) style that I like and discard what I don't. I think that kind of social policing of what you wear and eat was certainly common in the UK when I was a child, though it seems to have gone now, it's much more anything goes.

I like the artistic/gallery owner look too, I must admit. Though, atm I'm stuck at home with the lurgy that dd2 kindly shared. It's more very boring jeans and top look.

Thank you all for kind words about my shirt ☺️

Am attaching photos from the other day of my suede skirt paired with wrap cardigan from Mango. No camisole and no boobs on display but it all looks a little droopy. Have been thinking about the lines, shoulder pads and my sloping shoulders and I don’t know if I shouldn’t just embrace the droop somewhat because when I wear more structured items I get antsy because I don’t recognise myself in the mirror. 🙄 Shoulders look too bizarrely sharp! I am not Grace Jones. My feelings are possibly connected to why I don’t wear lipstick - mouth looks wrong.

As you can see in photo I’m in brogues. It is what it is. (I asked a colleague to snap the picture, claiming I was sending it to a friend 😙too embarrassed to talk about posting it on forums 🤭.)

Also posting an unfocused selfie with one of my favourite tops on - don’t tell me it doesn’t suit me. If you can tip me off of similar styles at decent price please do. Love it. Also the colours of a wool coat from Cos I’m bidding on online - wish me luck it ticks several buttons for me! ❤️

Very annoyed someone suggested Time remove the cami before I did. 😁 I agree the outfit lacked something but I lack the ability to analyse it - why does it have to be the brogues though? Why do we have to wear boots all the time? Waaahhh.

I read all the articles now - really enjoyed the art house chic one - we are way before our time on this thread - and the put down on French girl style ie social control. Having that knowledge at the back of ones mind makes one look at all French tv a little bit differently. And amen to the lack of diversity. But btw I started watching Call My Agent! Saw ten minutes. Had to pause and got distracted by season 2 of The Good Place but I’m on it!

Lost myself in Merchant and Mills too for a bit, but while I don’t doubt they sell some good stuff it does feel a lot like buying a dream, like you’re making yourself into a particular person (read: a hipster deluxe). Whereas Named Clothing patterns are selling a Scandinavian look that can be tweaked for everyone. Iyswim. The jeans looked great though. God imagine having jeans that fit well.

What can I say bani fucking love your outfit of wrap moss green top, suede and those brogues. Love it.
Yes, agree that with that top (maybe due to its lines) does not need anything in the shoulders, to me you look great on it. Maybe helped as well by the fact that the angle that you are not trying to do a selfie.
I’m also too embarrassed to admit posting in threads 🤫

I am in season two of Call my Agent. Totally hooked. Andrea is my fav character.
I am also really enjoying Karen britchick, she is hilarious imo. TBH I cannot get with Justine, she is ok but a bit meh... for me.
So I am here in a french style thread saying I don’t like the french vlogger but prefer the brit...

Hmm... I think it does look better without a cami bani but I'd feel self conscious too without one, and anxious whenever I leaned forward. Maybe it's because I was flat chested till my late 50s so I've never learned how to dress my boobs. Sorry for thumbs down for brogues with skinnies. I wear them with practically everything else.

Agree that Merchant and Mills are selling a lifestyle but at least it's one I can aspire too - ok not the part about living in the salt marshes, but the wafting around looking cool and elegant bit. Whereas I don't think I've ever, ever dreamed about wearing smocks in ditzy patterns. Anyway it's all moot until I get off my arse and buy a sewing machine.

I enjoyed the article about French dressing but found it harder to take Alice Pfeiffer seriously as a rebel after seeing her look so deliciously and totally Parisienne in that photo. I also think the myth of English independent style is equally tired. Off to read the one about the arty look now.

Oh, bani, I love your wrap top/suede skirt/brogues look. I hate shoulder pads usually too. The coat looks gorgeous and the top in the last photo looks a similar style to one of my favourite tops, v nice.

I agree flo, British independent style is just another stereotype, I think there has always been lots of "tribes" in British style.

red, I think I have to be in the mood for Justine. I agree that Karen is hilarious and has such a passion for clothes.

You are all too kind. Don't you think the green cardigan and suede skirt looks a little droopy then? The colours are great though (the black tights let it down, but I'm not sure what to do instead - brown tights maybe?), I've been really enjoying getting into wearing autumny colours recently. I have self-diagnosed myself as a Deep Autumn (whoops, forgot to warn Bo she'll roll her eyes so hard now) so am trying to get into warmer colours par préference et pas seulement les jewel colours un peu froids.

I find it a little hard - today I'm wearing a black wrap dress from Boden (quiet there at the back), black tights, the bronze brogues (because they are there). Over this (it was -1 degrees this morning! -1!!!) I wore the droopy loose-fitting olive wool jersey coat from Arket I got in the winter sales, and the scarf from Beck Söndergaard in warm colours my daughter gave me. My point is that it is all warm except the black, and the contrast is a little displeasing to me. Tell me why, and without going Trinny and Susannah on me ("black makes colour look cheap"). If I wear only warm tones, how to I avoid looking like a HOC ad?

Btw the scarf looks terrible no matter how I tie it. I'm going to have to post a photo one day of my scarf woes for help. I look so disproportionate somehow.

Flo I think the trick is too look past the patterns and colours someone else has chosen to sew up a pattern in and just look at the lines of the pattern drawing and thus see if it's worth getting. (I am not sure how to do this, I am easily influenced.) So we should be able to determine whether M&M are worth their salt (mine) this way. I really liked their jeans though. Tell me more about why you don't like brogues with skinnies - it it because the leg is cut off at the foot or something?

Forgot to say thank you to Whoeats and Time for feedback on the Fabworks wool. It is on my list, but I don't want to sew trousers until I master pockets. The only trousers I could manage to make are the kind with a zip in the side seam and I haven't worked out how to add pockets to that.

The idea of English (British?) style being independent must surely be a haute couture or runway impression, as in designers being more readily influenced by street fashion etc. Everyday fashion seems just as conformist as anywhere else IMO. The Royal Style thread shows time and time again that the spectrum of what is acceptable to wear is quite narrow (dependant on occasion, class, body type etc).

British independent style is a stereotype but a lot of people think it! I had people assume I was English in the us because I wore a sleeveless blouse that buttoned asymetrically, was very simple lines-square neck, gunmetal blue and id added some cream broderie lace down the button edge and the hem, with stripy brown cotton trousers.
My niece got a sewing machine for her 11th birthday this week, she will run rings around me.
Pic of fabworks wool- I didn’t want to unfold it all.
I didn’t know this idea of black makes colours look bad! Can anyone elaborate? Black and jewel colours can look stark when it’s red or a bit simplistic when it’s others like raspberry pink but it’s still a very common and easy combo for work.

time, I can remember years ago in Paris, a friend and I were constantly mistaken for Italian. She was half Spanish, but blonde with dark eyes, I had long, dark hair then but am pale. I think we wore mostly dark neutrals, but I had a red wool coat and chunky biker boots. Obviously, didn't adhere to the quirky British stereotype (plus I spoke french and didn't shout in English ) , not sure we looked Italian, but I took it as a compliment.

Lovely fabric, too. I think the black + colour was a Trinny and Susan rule from What not to wear. I think it's an overpowering combination for me personally and I would soften the effect with black + other neutral + colour, or black + bright colour + more muted/tonal version of colour eg. black + grey + red, black + red + berry. But some people can carry off strong colour combinations.

Oh honestly, I'm with Flo. I think Alice Pfeiffer looks the very definition of the Rive Gauche faux punk, living in SoPi rather than Shoreditch.

It's all very blind to her own overly privileged international school brat status (I'm allowed to say that, I'm the founding member of the club). Of course you're going to struggle in your teen years when home and school life have always been are a rather unique multi cultural makeup on a level playing field that not even the UN can replicate and then you're suddenly confronted with a mono culture with a strong sense of tradition. Of course you're going to clash but -newsflash- it's not down to the mono culture, it is really you. The amount of projection in that article is stronger than at your average monstrosity multiplex cinema. I don't disagree with the criticism of the narrow French beauty standard, I've done plenty of it on here but the comparative take of 'this is better because it suits me better' is all a bit primary school.

Want to tackle the lack of diversity, sure go for it, tackle the concept of 'effortless beauty' which is extremely exclusive. Only white, thin-ish women can get away with mussed up hair and last night's makeup and have it deemed desirable and sexy. Meanwhile a WOC can't even be employed with her hair in her natural state. It's all very tied up in class hierarchy pitting women against each other etc. and the Brits and French really don't differ all that much in this regard. I mean what exactly did she tackle in that gender studies course of hers...

Right where was I before I got all annoyed... Lots to catch up on and I keep reading merchant and mills as the trashy romance novels publisher, that's something and mills, isn't it?

Bani, yes I'm evangelical about tightlining, probably mention it anywhere so no clue where you read it.

PopTarts, sorry I have no plans for YouTube, I have neither the voice or face for it. Although I don't think that's actually a hindrance to be honest, I just don't have the personality for it as I think you genuinely have to crave a spotlight and external validation like that to put in the effort into something like that. Add in business interests and it's not surprising it all unravels bit by bit with influencers and you end up on that Gomi site of Bani's (I innocently thought it was a craft forum ).

Quirky, commiserations with the lurgy, though I'm sure Dd could be helpful in making an at home gallery, and as mother of the artist you'd have a valid excuse to dress all artist insider (inside)

Bani, I'm not sure what the fashion rule is with colour and black but IME it has to do with light reflection. Black technically isn't colour as it absorbs light and it tends to be fine with reflective colours (light, neutrals, greys, etc.) but colour is heavily saturated so doesn't bounce light off, it emits/transforms it somewhat, I'd use the word hue but that's a confusing term to use when talking colour. In graphic applications you can really distort perspective with the use of black and colour and I think the same can happen with clothing by which colour and black don't relate to each other as easily, black becomes more obvious as it stands apart and if it is cheap looking, then yes it will magnify that.

Will comment on the pics with questions of why it's working or not later as this is already far too long.

Oh and if anyone managed to read until the end, currently contemplating what to wear in London. I'm a bit weather confused at the moment, as I came back from the Biennale to 27° weather yesterday and it's still kind of warm at 19° with a bit of occasional drizzle. Weather in London should be similar to today, trench coat seems the sensible option but I fear it will be too suffocating in airports/planes/underground and I can be prone to fainting when feeling like that and I'm convinced a London 19° feels warmer than it does here. Am I mad to be considering a blazer and umbrella/travel scarf instead? Although I'd rather not be sacrificing precious hand luggage on the way back.

at dd2 being an artist, definitely abstract and snotty. Dd1's (13) whole bedroom is rivalling Tracy Emin's bed without the sexual connotations just mess, so maybe we could market that as an art installation . I like the idea of art insider pyjamas too.

Bo I'd definitely go for blazer and umbrella if those are the temperatures. We had similar weather here this weekend and that's what I wore (well I didn't, I flung off the blazer as it felt so structured all of a sudden but it would have been ideal). The scarf covers anything a sudden breeze might annoy.

Look forward to a post on black and colour and clothing critique! Yes, it's definitely a Trinny and Susannah thing the colour and black thing. They would go on and on about how you shouldn't buy beautiful jewel tones and pair it with black. However they never articulated anything beyond looks cheap. And once I started to see how black could kill other colours it was hard to unsee it. Which is why my black tights displease me.

It's Mills and Boone btw ;)

I agree that the Pfeiffer article glosses over a lot of things but the whiteness thing is mentioned at the end there actually. Although where she lived in the UK where "men never commented on women" I don't know.

Oh I logged on to say that H&M have been criticised by the Norwegian Consumer Agency for how they market their Conscious Collection. By claiming that it's sustainable without showing how they are violating Norwegian marketing law.

Good for the NCA I say, there's a lot of twaddle in that marketing.

They've come to an agreement with H&M on what needs to be changed, but H&M have only issued a short statement to the press saying that "please note that the NCA have only looked at whether the marketing is precise enough, not at whether the clothes are sustainable". The NCA have said that any claim that any new clothing is sustainable is problematic.

Read this in Swedish, quickly found a link in English www.dezeen.com/2019/08/02/hm-norway-greenwashing-conscious-fashion-collection-news/

Interesting article, bani. I am actually wearing an old H&M Conscious Collection t-shirt atm, that is allegedly organic cotton. All I can say is it's still going strong, but agree that companies need to be specific. It's a bit like labelling products as "natural", it's a bit fuzzy.

As you may know I still nurse a soft spot for H&M but I've always been sceptical of their conscious range. I thought that choosing 'conscious' as a name rather than a word that actually meant something like 'ethical' or 'sustainable' was pretty revealing.

bani you're right - both about Mills and Boon and about needing to look past the colours and prints and see the shape and the lines. And sorry but I'm not sure why I don't go for brogues with skinnies! I wear them with a narrow leg, wide leg and with skirts but in skinnies they make me feel kind of unbalanced somehow. It's mostly just an instinct. I'll try and work out if there's any more to it. Don't take any notice of me though, I'm not Trinny and Susannah.

black with colour. I must admit that was one of the T&S rules that made an impression on me, possibly because I was going through a toddler induced style hiatus at the time and my standard outfit for work was black trousers and whatever top was clean, because 'black went with everything'. So it struck a nerve. Even now I only wear it with other dark colours, not brights.

London today is definitely blazer weather bo , take a cardigan for any extra. And rain protection!

quirky, you're moving up in the world. By the sound of it you've already got yourself a contemporary art museum already including superhuman humidity detection apparatus

Pfeiffer's diversity arguments don't go much further than 'an English rose isn't representative of all English women'. I'm mostly just taking objection to tying everything to her own experience (which I wouldn't qualify as uniquely Parisian, most of the things she described I've also experienced in some form but never in Paris or France) and would expect a more insightful take from someone with her background. Admittedly, I may have taken a wrong turn by reading the BTL, it was a bit of a shitfest.

I thought that h&m story was relatively old, but I notice the linked article is from early August so that makes sense. Is there a new development? I do believe generally h&m comes out favourably whenever sustainable audits are done, and they do at least appear to try. But it would definitely be good if there were international guidelines and certifications because anyone seems to be 'sustainable' these days.

I don't own a single cardigan time... I'll be planning for a blazer for now, if the forecast changes to perpetual rain I'll take a trench.

I worn a silk shirt today with trench for work and I definitely suffocated in the train to London. Blazer plus scarf is a good the option bo unless the whole thing changes drastically!

Building work at home, putting a steel lintel in the aperture were we plan to install those glass doors I mentioned threads ago.since we needed to change the old lintel we decided to go a bit higher and I am very happy with the extra light that is bringing.

BTL?

That H&M stuff was old news wasn’t it? it was however only posted on the Swedish news site I was reading yesterday. Make of that what you will - no I suspect there was nothing new, they are just not very au courant en Suède. But I did genuinely find it interesting that the consumer agency was objecting to the marketing.

Flo is it because your feet look like big long clown feet? This I can relate to.

Hang on that came out wrong and I realised as the post was going though. General you, not specific you. One’s feet looks like clown feet in long narrow shoes under something tight fitting on the legs. (Like say brogues with tights haha)

BTL- Below the line, aka the comment section.

Yes, it's interesting the consumer agency are stepping in but I wonder if they're only able to do so as they're advertising it.

Slightly off tangent, but somewhat related, I'm currently being sucked into the latest esteelaundry scandal exposing working conditions -allegedly- in the beauty industry and whilst I wasn't that surprised to see the big names of L'Oréal, Estée Lauder and Coty pop up, and I already had massive suspicions about Charlotte Tilbury and Rodial. What's been most shocking to see is the worst behaviour is happening -allegedly- at the luxury ethical green brands like Tata Harper, Juice beauty, RMS beauty, etc. who preach all peace, love and nonsense but seem to practice none of it -allegedly-. I was planning on buying some rather spendy Briogeo haircare products but am thoroughly put off by how they treat their staff. It's quite insightful and harrowing reading, only problem is, my shitlist is growing exponentially and I fear I'll be out of brands to buy from now...

Allegedly allegedly and another allegedly for good measure as I'm no lawyer so best cover my arse.

I am behind on news clearly, what Esteelaundry escandal? I mean, is there something recent? specially on the rather expensive briogeo hair care? I alternate this with shampoo bar ... running out of alternatives

Esteelaundry is a callout Instagram account run by a collective of anonymous industry insiders. Or they claim anyhow. I'm generally quite sceptical of them as they really want to be the diet Prada of the beauty world and they're rather overzealous as a result. Including calling out a dermatologist (of Indian origin) for using emojis slightly darker than her own skin as emoji blackface A lot of accusations of cultural appropriation that are highly debatable, etc.

Occasionally they do actually have some interesting things, this weekend they posted lots of experiences of bullying and generally toxic environments for those working in the beauty industry. As mentioned above some unsurprising names, alongside some you weren't expecting. There's two IG stories on it now, attached are a few of Briogeo and it paints a terrible work environment and a very questionable CEO.

Some others