Royal style & gossip: who's got the best gownage and crownage?

[QueenOfTheAndals]

Here we go again, and as always say what you like about the clothes but keep it civil re the wearers of said clothes!

previous thread

Have there been any other Lords or Ladies who were the great-grandchild of a monarch and then promoted to prince or princess once their grandparent ascended the throne?

I don’t think so because the last time the UK had a monarch with great-grandchildren, there were different Letters Patent in operation. Under the previous LPs, great-grandchildren in the male line would have a princely title, but would be His/her Highness rather than Royal Highness. In fact, the Queen’s father, George VI, was born a mere Highness, rather than a royal one, although he got promoted by Queen Victoria before she died.

To address another question upthread, whether or not Sussex will ever be used as a sort of surname for Harry and Meghan’s children probably depends on whether those children assume royal titles. If they don’t, they would be similar to James Severn and Louise Mountbatten-Windsor, who follow the conventions of holders of aristocratic titles. They don’t use Wessex as a surname. It’s not common for the son or daughter of a duke to call themselves Lady Jane Spencer-Churchill of Marlborough, for example.

If the children assume princely titles when the Queen dies, which under the present LPs could happen, then they would be, for example, Prince Philip of Sussex or Princess Alice of Sussex and probably be known informally as Philip Sussex and Alice Sussex.

As for the Mountbatten-Windsor surname, it’s actually a bit complicated, but essentially, as I understand it, children in the male line from the Queen and Prince Philip, who are not Royal Highnesses, have the surname Mountbatten-Windsor. The Royal House of the UK remains Windsor.

As it stands at present, let’s say that Meghan has triplets, two boys and a girl, first names chosen by me. They would be Philip Mountbatten-Windsor, Earl of Dumbarton, known familiarly as Philip Dumbarton or more formally as Lord Dumbarton. The second son would be Lord James Mountbatten-Windsor, addressed formally as Lord James. The girl would be Lady Alice Mountbatten-Windsor, addressed as Lady Alice.

(I had to edit the first sentence of this because I wrote “we had a monarch”. Then I had to remind my American self that no, Victoria was not my monarch. )

I have a vague memory of reading somewhere that if Charles had had a daughter she would have been Margaret after his beloved aunt.

Thank you, Seneca that's really informative.
I read in Fergie's book that she wanted the name Charlotte, but wasn't allowed as Diana wanted it for a future daughter. I don't think Diana would have used Margaret!

Genius @SenecaFalls
How do you know all this stuff?

I read somewhere that post Charles; if Diana had a girl; she would have called her Allegra

That was in the Paul Burrell book, wasn't it?

Danish CP family at sporting event
The eldest boy is the image of Mary

I actually think Christian is more Fre than Mar!

Thanks @SenecaFalls, I know we can always rely on you to answer those sorts of questions!!

I probably read it reported in a tabloid @clionba.
I’ve never read Paul Burrel’s Book

I felt dirty after reading Paul Burrell's book. It has the most awful needy, self-centred and desperate tone of anything I have ever read.

The second one was along the same lines, about all Diana's boyfriends post divorce.

How do you know all this stuff?

I think there are quite a few people on MN who know it, too, but in my case it's a combination of interest in history and biography. I do have a degree in history (specialized in Tudor-Stuart political history), but mainly it has just been a lot of reading through the years. For instance several summers ago, I was off work for a few months recovering from an illness and decided to work my way through biographies of all of Queen Victoria's children, which then led to grandchildren, and great-grandchildren, and so on.

My family does tease me about my self-imposed role of being the scourge of US news media when they get titles and bits of British history wrong. I have a bit of a sideline in emailing corrections. They crop up every time there is a royal wedding or birth. It's just a little service I provide. They pretty much ignore me, though.

@SenecaFalls you'd get on like a house on fire with my DF. He's obsessed with The War of the Roses, Stuarts & The English Civil War. Though you probably wouldn't be able to get a word in edgeways as he can talk the hind legs of a whole herd of donkeys

@senecafalls
If it’s not too much trouble, please do post the names of the biographies you have read. I love a royalbiography.
I particularly like Theo Aronson, who wrote grandmama of Europe, about Queen Victoria who’s grandchildren were married into so many European Royal houses.
There is also one about Christian X of Denmark who’s children & grandchildren did likewise.

As we are a bit thin on frocks on the thread at the moment, there is serious gownage on the Celebrity Style & gossipthread courtesy of the SAG awards

Lauren I'd love to have those conversations with your DF.

Curly I will make a list and post it on the thread. It might take me a day or two as I have a really busy week at work this week. I do remember that some of the books were by Theo Aronson.

One I recommend is Darling Loosy, a collection of correspondence to and from Princess Louise, by Elizabeth Longford. I think that Louise is the most interesting of all of Queen Victoria's children.

No rush @SenecaFalls
Just interesting to see the list and have a browse on Amazon.

I love the fact checking service you offer to the American media

Some of us gave biography suggestions on a previous thread, but I can't remember which one! I would recommend the Ben Pimlott and Andrew Marr ones on the Queen, and the Philip Ziegler biographies of Edward VIII, George VI and Mountbatten.
Mountbatten's daughter Pamela Hicks' biography and various by Elizabeth Longford. I got very interested in Edward and Wallis and have quite a collection of those books! There are many good biographies of Victoria.

I would also recommend the James Pope Hennessy book on Queen Mary, and Christopher Hibbert on Edward VII.

Thanks @clionba
I have now bookmarked your last 2 posts to look up the authors later.
However I am not sure how to retrieve the bookmarks anyone able to point me in the right direction?

I missed this on Sunday. But HM went to church at Sandringham .
Love the turquoise on her.
She seems to really enjoy her weekend house parties.
There appears to be a rotation of children and grandchildren to visit her.

CurlyWurlyTwirly do it the old fashioned way, jot it down on paper!

That would require organisation on my part!
I was trying to copy & paste it and email it to myself ( didn’t work for some reason) and I thought that was old school!

Ok managed the emailing. Honestly these threads need an index; there is so much interesting stuff.
Perhaps we could write the mumsnet guide to the Royal Family!