Les Parisiennes de Mamansnet: Orangutans in Paris make for poor gondoliers

[botemp]

The sunshine might be fading from our passion fruit punch but we're looking forward to what autumn will bring.

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for you methen. We had terrible trouble with dd2's sleep about 3yrs ago and ended up with help from the sleep clinic run by Scope, you have my utmost sympathy as no sleep is utterly shite. I can remember my whole life revolving around lack of sleep and trying to get a nap. It may be a silly question, but are you entitled to any respite?

Comfortable and chic clothes... if not silk, harem pants that are jersey or other material. For warmth, I have some heattech uniqlo leggings that you could wear like tights under a soft skirt or thinner trousers. I must admit, I just nap in whatever I'm wearing.

Methen, not exactly budget and your thighs shouldn't rub too close together (pilling) but cashmere joggers are a sort of a winter version of silk harems, have a similar shape with the way fabric falls. H&M usually have some as well as wide leg versions but they're probably less practical in wet weather.

There are a lot of knit midis around at the moment as well. Skirts with thick tights in general would be good, possibly? Also knit dresses.

Think quirky posted some Palazzo trousers from hush, toast, or me & em that were a dressier take on a jogger but with the comfort still intact.

Me & Em palazzos are heavy modal jersey wide-legged trousers, but they are very long and heavy, an absolute no in rainy weather as they drag in puddles. They're not really warm in the very cold, either. I've got some old, Celtic & Co (sale/end of line) harem-ish joggers in a bamboo jersey that I wear as pyjamas, but again, not warm enough for proper cold. I was also going to say knit dresses, too, I haven't tried them but Uniqlo also do heattech tights iirc, which would be warm.

Will have a hunt around for options mentioned, eBay may be my friend there.

Quirky, a friend mentioned respite and it hadn't really occurred to me (sometimes it's hard to see the wood for the trees), going to look 8nto it though as there have been a couple of times I have forgot to set an alarm/slept through it from sheer exhaustion and it has terrified me as he needs frequent night checks to keep him safe. That's aside from forgetting general day to day conversations I have no recollection of which is quite terrifying. At least now the finish line is in sight and I just have to muddle by to December. I'm also really glad I'll still be working one day, it will mean much more of a financial hit than if I just went on the sick but will be really good for me to have that day and also as a teacher, i have all my GCSE classes that day so will still be there for them (which is something else I was really stressed about).

It will be really nice to have a bit of brain space to exercise, sleep, just look after myself and our family a bit better.

That sounds really tough Methen I know Toast isn't to everyone's taste and nor is it cheap but I have these cotton pull-ons and to my eye, they're indistinguishable from standard slouchy trousers - a loop so you can wear a belt to disguise the waistline and even a fake fly. They're in a mid-weight cotton, reasonably soft but also hard wearing (or at least they were when I got mine last year).

Otherwise I was going to suggest joggers too - I'm not sure what the fabrics are like but they're very current and lots of price points.

And I second quirky about leggings under trousers.

methen we don't get respite per se, not sure it's right for us, but get "short breaks" and access to a special play scheme, in fact I'm just in the process of renewing. The trouble is you need energy and clarity of mind to tackle some of these things. Most local authorities have a "Local Offer" which outlines (most of) the help available, ours is on our Council's website, but you may well be entitled to some respite. I'm a teacher too, but haven't worked for quite a few years due to dd2's poor sleep and pretty much part time school attendance, both of which are now much better.

I like those trousers, flo. They look warm, comfortable and chic.

Aw Methen sleep deprivation of that kind is torment. I had the impression you implied it will get better in December, will there be a medical procedure you are waiting for?
It’s perverse that you’ll be financially worse off for working one day a week, but I totally understand your motivation. Plus there will not be a gap in your CV.
The joggers I bought in Massimo Dutti a few weeks ago are of a nice, heavy cotton in a charcoal check, and comfy without looking like leisure wear. You might want to take a look.

I am pleased to report that the Bobbies loafers I posted about a while ago and that I procrastinated on came back in my size. I pounced, and it seems they fit!! If they’ll continue to feel comfortable with wear and won’t shred any part of me feet that will be a small miracle, and Jean-Bobby will have earned himself a loyal customer. I’d never have come across them without this thread 🤗

Here’s another thing that’s been bugging me. bo and others have been posting about wide leg trousers requiring different cuts in coats, different shoes etc. From an aesthetic POV I get this; from a sustainability POV (and of course financial) it is mildly horrifying to think of all the additional consumption that changing silhouettes in fashion can imply. Not as horrifying as short-lived polyester tat from the high street of course. But the life cycle of what is fashionable would need to be drawn out and correspond closer to the longevity of well made garments, no? And I wonder to what extent that is even possible on a large scale apart from the commercial pressures, given the impact of the cultural and political Zeitgeist on what is in fashion, and probably other factors.

See I would say a change of silhouette is slow fashion in action. We're not all rushing out to buy a whole new wardrobe, however the next time we buy a new coat we'll probably look at a longer length (plus skirts and dresses are getting longer too). Same with knitwear - we don't replace everything but we slowly swing round to shorter and more fitted on top. The whole process can take years.

It's why for the last couple of winters we've had threads going 'Look! people are still in skinnies! See! See! They'll never go out of fashion.' Well I think they will do, but it doesn't mean they won't be around for a few years yet.

Personally I think the short lived trends do more damage: the peplums, the cold shoulder tops, the massive sleeves - all the things that last a couple of years at the most and then litter the charity shops.

Admittedly I may be biased cos I was bored senseless with the skinny jean silhouette and couldn't wait to move on.

Just for clarification, I own no shares in Bobbies despite what my username may suggest

I agree with Flo that it's adjusting in increments rather than an overnight overhaul. I think the difficulty we currently have is that there are multiple trends, very obvious ones that are focused on quick turnover and carbon date instantly, recurring ones, and less obvious longer haul trends that are more tied into silhouette/materiality.

Sometimes they overlap, eg. the Western trend is very out there at the moment (though from what I've observed it's not heavily bought into) which is a trend that comes round every few years, most noticeably when US geopolitics seem to be controversial, so we buy into a simplistic fantasy version of the country instead. Similarly, the Parisian aesthetic gains popularity when there's a need for escapism, Scandi Minimalism when times are chaotic, Italians reign supreme when things are economically at extremes. They're trends that aren't that hard to reintegrate into others, plenty of people who always wear Western boots as their personal style, etc. We've become a lot more individualistic and a dictated look isn't as prominent as it once was anymore.

I'm more of a buying in increments type, myself, too. I've been wearing wide-legged trousers for quite a few years. I often like them with a short jacket, but sometimes wear them with my long, purple velvet (opera) coat , which is quite fitted at the waist. I suppose both of these counteract the width of the trousers, by giving some shape. I'm wondering if my red coat would work too, it's not so long, but quite narrow...

Very interesting about how fashions come and go. I don't really get rid of things that are good quality, if I feel they are not very current. I tend to put them away and they may come out again when they look fresh.

Been meaning to post my coat all week. The colour’s interesting - greenish in some lights and greyish in others but it suits me better than that yellow Burberry beige.

The style is very 70s but it feels relatively lightweight - all the old ones I tried were much heavier - so more likely to be 90s. The label says Burberry’s with an ‘S’ which I think they dropped around 2000, also ‘made in England’ but I’m not sure when that stopped.

Anyway I’ve been hunting one a long time so very satisfying to land one at last. It won’t be my hardest working coat but fun for swanning around and posing.

Was just coming in to post and wondering where everyone had disappeared off to. I know where Elle was as we met up for the Antwerp sample sales yesterday. My usual spoilt for choice issue had deserted me, unfortunately, but thankfully Elle found lots of lovely things and I did manage to find attached silk jumpsuit at Christian Wijnants at the end of the day. Though perhaps I'm deluding myself in that it's a flattering pointillist style piece and the reality is more allergic clown sneezed to close to the confetti as it's ridiculously comfy to wear

That coat is a real find, Flo! I really like the green colour, feels very fresh somehow and will work well in Spring, surely.

Couple of questions, anyone with a Times subscription able to tell me the outcome of this article:

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/luxury-goods-giant-richemont-uk-spied-on-black-worker-it-victimised-2htkm9zwm

It's going to be a difficult pill to swallow if Richemont is to be added to my shitlist (Chloe, NAP-Yoox group among many others) so full story and changes made would be helpful.

Other question, for those visiting the by the weight sales somewhat regularly, what amount of clothes do you generally get for a kilo? There's a high end designer vintage edition here next week and I thought it sounded dead cheap at €60 a kilo until I realised I have no idea what a kilo actually buys you...

Also, peony, though I doubt you're still looking/in need of another bag but I did promise to alert you if I ever saw the Chloe Louise bag for sale again, they currently have the cognac and two in dark green.

Meant to add in link to bag, this is the cognac one:

louiseparis.fr/en/bags/6275-chloe-tan-brown-leather-cross-body-louise-bag-new.html

Lovely coat, flo. And I like your pointillist jumpsuit, bo, I like your description even more. Great that you and Elle met up at the sample sales .

We have the Times, but in real paper, I'm not sure if that issue is still lurking about the house, but hopefully someone with an online subscription will be able to help.

Ooh a high end weigh and pay sounds amazing - the ones round here are normally £15 a kilo but 95% shit. Let me try and think... The last one I went to I came away with a lightweight 60s coat, a tweed jacket and 2 or 3 silk shirts and I think I paid about £20 so it must have weighed in at around 1.3 kilos (That was a successful one - they’re not all like that!) The heaviest item was probably the tweed jacket - I would guess that came to least £10 so around 2/3 of a kilo. The lightweight coat was maybe £8 so just over half a kilo and the silk shirts weigh next to nothing so probably work out at less than a quid each.

You do have to get everything cleaned so you have to factor those costs in too.

You can normally try things on but the queues are massive so I don’t bother but wear something like a skirt over leggings and several layers on top so I can change without distressing anyone. And a backpack to leave both hands free. (Sorry if you already know all that - I don’t know if sample sales are similar.)

Lovely that you and Elle met up!

I think Xing may have a Times subscription but she was going away wasn’t she?

Anyway doreport back from the posh weigh n’ pay - I always get a buzz out of them and rarely come away totally empty handed.

When I say I don’t bother, I mean I don’t bother queuing for the changing rooms, not that I don’t bother trying on!

Thanks Flo, I figured a kilo didn't equate to much but that sounds promising. Hadn't considered dry cleaning costs so that's good to keep in mind.

Antwerp sample sales are quite civilised in comparison to the Amsterdam ones, they at least have communal fitting rooms (which is great as you're never waiting in line) but Amsterdam sample sales rarely have any and you're lucky if there's more than one mirror. I'm no too bothered changing in front of all and sundry, except when they're in some unheated old garage or similar on account of the temps. I've quite honestly never accounted for distressing anyone else though

I'm hoping there will be racks, as I'm easily overwhelmed when it's digging through bins and the like. I'll take pictures if I can but I expect no photography will be allowed.

I'm undecided whether to get there early and deal with likely a large crowd or wait it out and go later, banking on the fact that my size isn't all that popular.

I normally go early to beat the student crowds, although we tend to be after different things so it doesn't really matter. The ones I go to say they put stuff out all day and that it doesn't matter what time you get there but I can't believe they really save the best stuff till the end.

Also modern clothes are much normally lighter so if it's proper vintage stuff (which to my mind is pre 1970 but that's only cos I still haven't got my head round clothes I used to wear being vintage!) everything will probably be heavier and you won't get as much for your money. There are usually scales so you can find out how much you've got before you check out.

Hi All,

methen that sounds so tough. That’s really very little respite, it’s so disappointing that there isn’t more support in place. On the close front I have a pair of velvet stretch jeans in a deep navy that are the closest thing I own to pyjamas. I also tried these recently and they were lovely and soft - worth keeping an eye on ebay for.

Lovely trench Flo - the colour is gorgeous, just unusual enough to make it really interesting.

Many thanks to the lovely botemp who was every bit as engaging in person as online and a wonderful host, for showing me the ropes at the sample sales. To echo her comments, it’s surprisingly civilised and although the fitting rooms are communal they’re well segregated from the shop floor. I pictured more of a folding surgical screen kind of arrangement so was pleasantly surprised. I also thought Antwerp was really charming. It’s very compact and easy to navigate (once I finally got google maps to work for me). The food was good and it’s easy to get to..less easy to get home from, but that was due to an unfortunate series of events.

Following posts are very mememe. They may also be a bit patchy depending on how the kids’ bedtimes go!

So without further ado, some Antwerp pictures, touristy ones first!

Also a caveat - I photographed these in haste as I unpacked so they are really really creased and not looking their best, but if I waited till I had time to iron them and try them on in peace it could have been a week. You’ll have to use you imagination

Next the purchases. I’m thrilled with these Haider Ackermann suede leggings. I’ll be taking care on white couches, but my god these are so comfortable. I’m still hoping that my leather leggings reappear so these were a nice alternative that mean if/when I find the leather ones I won’t have a duplicate. Wearing with a green Joseph knit that I bought on the Saturday mainly for the colour.

Next an Anne Demeulemeester skirt, fabric unknown as a proper sample piece, not silk sadly, but a good heavy fabric that drapes well. Top is a name I’ve never heard of, but a gorgeous colour. Both pieces picked out by botemp.

Also a jacket that I promis is nice when not creased. It’s Dries and was a bit of a bargain plus a 17% discount negotiated by botemp for the belt, which should be an easy fix. Looks like someone took a little swatch out of it.

An emblished Dries top with a kind of early noughties (?) feel. I wouldn’t wear it with the trousers but shown like this for speed. Will wear for work with plain black skirt and cami under I think.

And finally because I couldn’t leave without going to the Dries flagship ... this skirt. Not botemp sanctioned, not very Parisian, both shiny and patterned and loud and probably the antithesis of this thread, but I still love it.

You've got some gorgeous things there Elle - that top and skirt are beautiful colours. I've really missed brown and it's great to see it back. I also really like the wrap jacket and you look lovely in that floaty skirt.

I've never been to Antwerp but have just added it to my list of places to try and visit (ideally in the sample sales season).

And bo I've just re-weighed that haul I described (tweed jacket, 60s coat and a couple of silk shirts) and it came to just over 2 kilos, which would have totalled £30+ so I've gone wrong somewhere. On reflection, the tweed jacket was most likely bought at an different event, so the £20 - which I'm sure I remember paying - was probably just for the coat and silk shirts: still a good morning's work but not quite as bargainous as I made out!

Lots of lovely things, Elle. I particularly like the suede leggings, really versatile and flattering. Some gorgeous shapes, that brown top! And surely the point of this thread is to wear clothes you love. I have been to Antwerp, years ago, but for a night out at a fantastic restaurant with a Belgian friend. I remember it being very beautiful and the shop windows were amazing.