🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Heatwave, schmeatwave, we've got our trusty SPF50 and are donning wide brimmed hats

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JULY 2018: Sorry, terrible title, I haven't been keeping up but I assume Dr.Sam’s new cleanser will have some fans on here.

Mint really? The Aucoin curlers aren't so good? I got so many recommendations for them but am dithering about buying, I've never spent more than about £5 on curlers!

I did a little makeup revolution order
Conceal and define supersize concealer
Conceal and define foundation
Rose gold palette

Argh! Meant to add this pic

Bagel I did lots of research before buying the curlers (google reviews etc) and these ones got so much love and sounded ideal for my small hooded eyes (curlers usually always pinch my skin) however the reality is that they definitely do still pinch and they hardly give me any curl at all, and the little curl they do give usually falls very very quickly! I've had to use them again couple times during day over my mascara! I'm now on the hunt for something else! Gutted I wasted so much money.

Bagel, it depends on your eye shape. I have almond shaped eyes and they do well with Kevyn Aucoin, and the curler itself is excellent. They give a slanted fluttery curl at the edges on my eyes. The Shu Uemuras make them more wide eyed, round looking. They all have different qualities and curvatures.

This [[https://www.reddit.com/r/MakeupAddiction/comments/2r4rfs/eyelash_curlers_in_numbers_measuring_their/ Reddit post]] is by no means perfect but it's a helpful place to start to measure and compare which ones suit your eye shape best. I'm not sure how accurate the Surratt measurement is because it's very narrow where my preference has always been wider, hence why I'll go in-store to try it out first.

I tried some of this at the Sweaty Betty event yesterday and wow, my lips felt amazing afterwards. I have a couple of their lipsticks so know the brand. Just want to check, is physical exfoliation of lips acceptable?!

Sugar

Re eyelashes/curling, apparently you get the best effect with waterproof mascara.

I've just got to re-order some Elasticizer on the John Lewis website - there seem to be some new ones out. Has anyone tried the scented one? I think I'll just stick with the original...

If you're really chapped and desperate then a physical exfoliating lip product can bring instant relief, Pupsie, but I wouldn't use one on a regular basis. Sugar scrubs seem more innocuous as they deliver hydration but a lot of lip products with humectants tend to exasperate the problem more than they help with it as it'll draw moisture out as the skin is very different on the lips. It could potentially pull you into a vicious cycle of needing to use it more and more when it is the culprit.

Thanks Bo. It's quite expensive too, although it would last yonks with a one a month use.

Hiya Song, thanks for your contribution, it's very informative. Can I ask about your experience with GPs/derms? Were you never referred beyond your GP after the diagnosis and exhausted treatments, or was the offered specialism from a dermatologist just not helpful due to limited NHS funds and/or perhaps a more outdated approach to rosacea which made you seek out a prescription for Soolantra through alternative means?

I'd be cautious with the LRP hydrating cleanser, I'm about to run out otherwise I'd offer a decant but it can be a bit sensitising when I'm more sensitive and I know Pupsie (mild rosacea) didn't get on with it at all. Granted there are four types of rosacea so that doesn't necessarily mean you all react the same but just a warning that it's not the most gentle thing out there.

Totally understand the lure of miracle products, and the sad reality is the more difficult the skin, the more likely you are to buy into that. It takes a while to understand skincare is like a symphony and not a solo performance, lots of little parts make up the greater whole and then you need a good conductor to make it all work in harmony.

@Songsweusedtosing: Hello 🙂 I also use the clear azelaic treatment from Paula's choice, does wonders for my spots (I use it every night).
Have you tried any BHA from them? Not the popular BHA liquid one, the blue one in the resist line, it's 2% but gentler and water like and does not leave any stickines whatsoever.
www.paulaschoice.co.uk/resist-anti-aging-daily-pore-refining-treatment-bha-m7820.html?dwvar_m7820_size=fullsize&cgid=
Also they have a nice creamy cleanser meant for dryier skin but it washes completely without stripping the skin, I use it morning and night and I have combo-oily skin.
www.paulaschoice.co.uk/resist-anti-aging-optimal-results-hydrating-cleanser-m7600.html?dwvar_m7600_size=fullsize&cgid=
Paula's choice have 2 ranges meant for very sensitive skin, the CALM ranges (one for dryier skin and one for combo/oily skin) and I think the products are formulated in such a way to avoid skin irritation or reaction to more powerful actives. I'm sure they have also a BHA 1% product.
You said you avoid alcohol in products, does this apply to foundation? Sadly a surprising number of high end foundations (Chanel included) have alcohol amongst the first ingredients...
I'm not sure you have to leave such a long time between product application, it sounds tedious (especially in the mornings). A few seconds should be enough, start with the liquids, gels and end with the heavy/creamy products. I understand a longer wait between the spf and foundation, but even then 15 minutes is unnecessary.
Off topic, I don't understand the love for micellar water, it does not seem to take the makeup off in a efficient way, I't has to be rinsed off or fallowed up by a cleanser anyway, I guess I was hoping it was a fad but it's not dying down it seems. 😋

pigeon, I agree that wait times are not useful but it may be a point of difference for someone, especially if skin is temperamental and unpredictable, so it's just anecdotal, as song's account should be read. I won't chide her for it but it does help to IME mark these things to avoid entire routines and approaches being viewed as miracle products are as there are few constants in skincare.

I don't think micellars are proper cleansers either, their popularity is mostly one of convenience, I suspect. I live in a high pollution city which I cycle through daily, no way would a single micellar cleanser get that off. You won't notice the impact of that until much later though. But, I know for some it's the only thing they can use, especially with sensitive skin and often it's an initial cleanse rather than the entirity of theirs cleansing routine.

You are absolutely right @botemp, in the end it does come to preference and even need depending on ones personal situation (very reactive skin, new products introduced etc). What I very inarticulately tried to say is that there is no need to wait a certain time between product application for them to work (unless it's a preference of a choice for whatever reason.) Something like: don't feel like you HAVE to wait, if you rather be done with it and go to bed and you've had the same routine for years with no problems. The products will work just fine without waiting.
I hope I didn't come across as preachy or rude, because that it's not my intention but I can understand, with English not being my native language, that I may be sounding like that (I actually had to google what "chide" means :)) ).

Song that's a brilliant first post! Please delurk often! I do have mild rosacea although when I met Sali Hughes recently she thought I was bonkers (CH too at same event but neither believed me, and I spoke to them out of earshot of each other). I just manage it very well and avoid my triggers.

Bo is right; I really didn't get on with the LRP hydrating cleanser. As soon as it was on my face it tingled very strongly and have me a burning sensation. I still have it. Very happy to send you a decant as I have lots of decant pots.

I'm not a native speaker either, pigeon, but I know how to chide

It's just a general danger on these threads as none of us are experts (except of our own experience) and often mistaken as such by those new to the threads. With that in mind it is useful not to represent personal experience as fact based. Which is a hassle admittedly and why it's easier just to explain the science behind your thoughts. Which is a bit more effort but worthwhile to avoid the wrong conclusions to be drawn.

So in the case of cleansing and wait times, it helps to know the whole concept of cleansing is based on temporarily diminishing the protection of the skin barrier by disrupting it to allow all following products to penetrate as efficiently as possible so it would actually work against you to wait too long. The damper the skin the easier the transport as water 'opens' up the barrier. Acids as chemical exfoliators work in a similar way. But if you already have a compromised barrier that's particularly sensitive to regular strength products designed for your average skin barrier, it helps to let that skin barrier catch up a bit before being assaulted again as the act of cleansing itself is pretty disruptive, so it's a management of sorts to implement wait times.

Hi pupsie
My gp mentioned that when I am anaemic then one sign is particularly dry and chapped lips.
It might be something to think about - the lip balm may not be the problem.
I have certainly noticed it and immediately take iron and vit c and a steak. And then use lanolips!

Thanks Bio. Funny as I've just bought some Spatone iron sachets. And DH and I are due our annual blood tests/health checks.

Thanks for the detailed recap, Song. From these threads I've definitely noticed a general lack of empathy when it comes to 'minor' skin issues with GPs and derms. I don't know if that's exclusive to the UK, my encounters with derms are limited so it's a terrible point of comparison but I suspect my GP would be equally useless, though I don't expect them to be experts.

Yes the dermotex theory isn't a fully supported one in the entirety of the derm community, I believe. Similarly, fungal acne isn't fully recognised as a major contributor to many acne patients, I'm not sure if that's one and the same as the dermotex theory, but symptoms are very similar. The fungal acne is more a US narrative where the Dermotex is more something I've read about in UK forums.

You sound like someone with an atopical disposition so it's always tougher. And cleansers are particularly difficult as most cleansers strip and then rehydrate when you need a cleanser that cleans without stripping the hydration out of your skin. Traditionally those are the oil based cleansers but I totally understand your hesitance on trying anymore. For those with eczema I do sometimes recommend looking at the Avene Xeracalm AD cleansing oil (for the body but gentle on the face so long as you keep it out of the eyes) which is more like a gel cleanser to use and respects the natural barrier of the skin, it doesn't contain as much oil as you'd expect.

@Botemp : I did not think about that so I do have to say that I'm no skincare expert, I struggled (and still struggle) with skincare issues, I guess I am trying to recommend the things that helped me so people do not waste a lot of time and money with "bad" products (the ones with a lot of irritants, perfume, alcohol etc). I did not know any better in the past (and I liked Lush, to the horror of my skin). Of course what I use or recommend will not work the same for everybody (I wish it was that easy).
@Songsweusedtosing: I think both the cleanser and the 2% BHA from the resist line are available in travel sizes. They are big enough so that you can make your mind about them. Before the cleanser I use the cleansing oil from Paula's Choice, it "foams" immediately (soft foam, not big bubbles) and rinses off quickly . They have samples I think, but not travel sizes I'm afraid (if you still want to try an oil-based cleanser, because it's very gentle).

Do not worry about the Chanel foundation if you like it and you don't use it daily. It's hard to find the perfect foundation.
@Pupsie : I went to boots and got Lanolips in rhubarb, it has a great feeling on the lips, the color is soft enough so I can apply it on the go with no mirror. The only bad thing is the taste, but that comes with the spf, so I expected that, I can't have everything. It will be very good since it's getting colder now. Thanks for the recommendation.

Off topic, am I the only one disappointed about the state of the makeup "bin" in TKmaxx? There are some good, even high end brands in there, but all the packages are opened (seals broken), tested, sampled, swatches and then discarded back in the bin. Would anybody even buy them? People must realize how unsanitary it is, and that no one will buy them (or not?!). Just above the makeup display there was a sign saying something like: "No testers means amazing prices" and "Thank you for not opening our packages" which seems like a bad joke since everything has been tampered with. I should not get annoyed about this but I always do. :( Sorry for the rant.

Song have you tried the avene extremely gentle cleanser?

Pupsie I have This sugar scrub lip balm which I love and great because on the other side is a lovely lip gloss. My DD makes sugar scrubs using vaseline and granulated sugar which has exactly the same effect, she puts them in mini round tester pots so they look shp bought.

Song I use Bioderma micellar water a lot (I have pretty much tried them all and this for me is the Holy Grail of Micellar water) and I think it works really well for my sensitive, prone to redness skin.

I spritz with LRP Thermal water after using micellar water every time.
However I do use a lot of other cleansers as well depending on how much make up I'm wearing and how dehydrated my skin feels etc.

Mint I apply any old face powder although I'm currenty still using Dermablend loose powder and before that it was boujois healthy something in the red case.

I am still using the same eyelash curlers I bought as a teenager in Boots because no others match my feline eye shape like they do. I just replace the rubber bits. I have pretty much used them everyday for the last 30 years.