🐌 Fantastic Skincare: Heatwave, schmeatwave, we've got our trusty SPF50 and are donning wide brimmed hats

[botemp]

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For those who are taking a peek and wondering what this all about, we mostly discuss a bit of advanced skincare here with a perspective of seeking out the right ingredients (rather than the latest new shiny product and all its empty promises) for our particular skin needs. Distinguishing the acid toners from the actives whilst avoiding the truly unimpressive and harmful ingredients with a hope to achieve a bit of anti-ageing, alleviate irritation and sensitivities with some idle chat in between. Newcomers are always welcome but please note the following:

Questions and asking for help on this thread is encouraged, however, we can’t give you a specific routine to follow and hope it works out for the best. There are no overnight miracles in skincare whether it be in the form of products or techniques. It’s about perseverance, understanding your skin, assessing its needs and responding to that in a diligent manner.

These threads were created to help those who want to learn for themselves. We’re a group of interested and invested skincare nuts happy to offer tea and sympathy and dole out advice. Everyone’s journey with skincare is different, what is universal and binds us is that through actually learning about the different active ingredients it helps us get to know our skin and help us adapt as it will change many times throughout our lives - with seasons, hormonal changes, ageing, genetics etc. It's in everyone's best interests to get to know their skin and to keep reviewing those changes with the confidence that comes from the gathered knowledge here. We really encourage you to spend the time reading through previous threads and linked info sheets that the many contributors have taken the trouble to share.

By no means are we experts, we're only a bunch of amateurs that can only respond by suggesting what we would do in your place, for any severe conditions please seek out professional help.

Ahem, and finally a little note on spending. I'm well aware these threads cause many to reach for their wallets and spend with wild abandon. There can sometimes be a bit of a frenzy surrounding the excitement around a newly discovered product or on the back of great improvements when someone reports back. This is all great, it doesn't however, mean everything that's a sudden miracle for one will be it for you. Usually, it's a light bulb moment for connecting the right skincare ingredient with an individual experiencing a specific problem. Take your time to mull over decisions and question whether it's right for you too. Skincare is highly individual, it's a slow game that should cost mostly in patience, input, education, and perseverance. Please don't make it cost you financially needlessly.

I am very slowly working on consolidating the gathered information from previous threads into easier to read formats but it’s slow going. I would suggest reading thread 1 and at the very least the following info sheets (provided they apply to you):

Where to Start

Basics of an Actives Routine

Skin Types vs. Skin Conditions Info Sheet

Anti-Ageing Info sheet

Adult Acne Info Sheet

Understanding Which Sunscreen(s) to Buy

Do I Really Need to Wear Sunscreen Every Single Day of the Year?

A Damaged Skin Barrier - Now What?

NEW SERIES:

So You Want To Buy A Retinoid - A Guide

JULY 2018: Sorry, terrible title, I haven't been keeping up but I assume Dr.Sam’s new cleanser will have some fans on here.

Lovely, Botemp. Thank you for the swift reply! I'll certainly look them up. It would be nice to support a UK brand too.

I kind of always realised TO prices weren't actually that good - just look at huge bottles of Korean toners for comparison - but also for oils. I've just been lazy about looking for a different brand.

Bagel I had an email from facetheory recently about a new product launch of an oil I'm sure contains marula, may be worth a look?

Hi everybody, I've been reading the skincare threads for a while, but I had nothing interesting to contribute so far, because my routine consists mainly of Paula's Choice products .
Regarding the ordinary, have any of you seen the new skincare range from revolution? It does look similar to the ordinary, but I wonder if the products are any good.
www.revolutionbeauty.com/en/Skincare/cc-86.aspx

Babypigeon Thanks for sharing I had no idea these had come out, definitely worth a try for those that like those ingredients.

I was aware that revolution were doing something new but I presumed it was to do with make up.

Thanks Mint, I'll keep a look out. I've seen they have Tamanu and Cacay which I'm also interested in, so might try one or those.

Just been looking through Revolution new skincare, they have a 10% niacinamide 1% zinc. I might try a few bits - I assumed it would be fragranced etc but some of them look interesting.

Babypigeon, your sense of timing is terrible ;) - I'd just spur-of-the-moment ordered the niacinamide, vitamin c and azelaic acid from GOW via Victoria Health... The Revolution range looks like TO dupes which is funny in itself. Will absolutely keep an eye on them, thanks for the tip.

Thanks for that BabyPigeon, I had seen some news around that but hadn't looked into it properly yet. Apparently Superdrug will start carrying it in stores from next week.

Quick glance does make it look like direct dupes, some items like the primer do have fragrance in it though. The Quinoa peel actually looks like a Kiehl's dupe.

@TantricTwist I had no idea they are branching into skincare, I was on the website only because they have a collaboration with Emily Noel from youtube ( she is a lovely person).

@banivani I was wondering about garden of wisdom, I'm still too afraid to change my Paula's choice products, but I would love something cheaper (that works).

@botemp They do look like dupes, but that's what Revolution does.😀

Yes Revolution do some excellent dupes.

I think these latest products will have the same ingredients as TO, if not then better , and have probably been thoughtfully waiting for the right time to launch and Brandon has just given them that chance on a silver platter with a cherry on top.

Plus there's a superdrug on every highstreet so they will be very accessible products.

The concealer is coming out in a new bigger tube and they're doing a matching foundation which I suspect is a shape tape foundation dupe

I am lucky enough to have a small bottle of a great marula oil from South Africa. It is lovely and cost about £18 (family brought it home for me) and I will be stocking up when I go there next year. (Brand is Godding & Godding if for some chance you are in the area; they ship internationally too but I am sure it isn't cheap)

Babypigeon I used GOW Azeliac Acid and Niacinamide and I really like them both.

ROUTINE

AM

Cosrx Low pH morning cleanser (last week have returned to LRP Toleriane instead to see if the Cosrx is adding to what I think is redness)
Clarins Gentle Exfoliating Toner - every other morning
DE Vit C
Vichy 89 Serum
Clarins Blue Orchid Oil on cheeks if required
Cosrx Oil Free Moisturising Lotion - a light swoosh
SPF - Biore Perfect Bright Milk or Biore Watery Essence

PM

Bioderma Micellar Water for eye make-up
Clinique TTDO or GOW Daily Cleanser + LRP Toleriane
Pestle and Mortar Superstar Retinol Night Oil - every other night
Verso Eye Serum - every other night
Clarins Blue Orchid Oil on cheeks if required
Cerave PM Night Lotion

EMPTIES

Cosrx Low pH morning cleanser - have repurchased but before I thought I'd try without it. I do so love it but Dr. Sam's video about scent had me thinking...

ON TRIAL

Dr Sam Bunting Flawless Cleanser - have stopped using. Suspected spots, plus just didn’t like it. Felt gloopy and hard to rinse off
GOW Azelaic Acid - every other night when not using P&M/Verso retinols.
Bioderma Shower Oil - love this. Halfway through the huge pump bottle (DH uses it too. Will definitely RP)

PLANNED PURCHASES

Nothing

SPECIAL MENTION

Thought I prefered the Bright Milk SPF so not beein using the Watery Essence, but prefer the WE. The BM is pink but settles down, but I still think it leaves me looking pinky, which adds to the whole redness thing).

GOW Daily Cleanser - really like this. It foams a bit but isn’t drying.
I love everything in my routine at the moment. Whilst travelling having a 2 week break from everything but TTDO and Cosrx moisturising lotion has made me realise this; my skin is feeling and looking good I think, notwithstanding what I feel is faint redness which I have always accepted is just my skin tone/colouring but now I'm actively trying to take out individual scented products for a month at a time to see if I can make a difference.

GOW Azelaic Acid - only had it 2 nights but so far so good. It's creamy and quite moisturising on it's own.

If other people use an oil when do you use it? Before or after moisturiser?

@Bluebell9 I will put it on my list to try, I like azelaic acid for breakouts. The main thing I'm worried about is irritation, I think Paula's choice products are formulated in a way to prevent inflammation and iritation so I had no issues so far.

@Pupsiecola I like to mix the oil with the moisturizer (I'm lazy 😋).

Hello, is there room for another skincare newbie/cicaplast fan? I've been going through some of the older threads (in awe of the encyclopaedic knowledge on display) and trying to swat up and get a bit more confident so I can start putting together a routine.

Since I hit 30 I've suffered from localised acne/redness, mainly just one cheek but occasionally the other too, and on a number of occasions I've used Zineryt on prescription which has worked well, until it comes back 6 months or a year later... I'm back in that stage now but it's not so awful that I want to go back for antibiotics. So with inspiration from your amazing repository of information I've just bought some GOW Azelaic and Niacinamide. Just arrived this morning and now very excited to try them!

I'm thinking of starting off just with the AA at night, would be preceded by cleansing with micellar/cotton pad - don't wear a lot of make-up and avoiding water on face these days - and followed by hyaluronic (Hada Labo) and cicaplast on the dry/inflamed cheek areas.

Does this sound like a reasonable approach?!

@PopsicleToes I've struggled with bad acne (also user zineryt multiple times in the past) and I think you should treat your skin very gently. That means no rubbing with cotton pads, instead use a gentle makeup remover (oil based, or take the day off by clinique) and a nice gentle rinse off cleanser. Use tepid water to wash your face. In any case, it's best to rinse off micellar water, it should not be a leave on product.
Salicilic acid (BHA) is very good for acne/inflammation.

salicylic acid gives me acne. I actively avoid things that have it in. Not as bad as Glycolic but still a trigger. (I had to copy and past salicylic. It's going on my list of things I can never spell and neither can my autocorrect.) Just something to be aware of.

Suppose you'll have already considered this Pops but as you described it as dry and inflamed, could it be rosacea rather than straight mild acne? Sounds like that to me and often gps can't tell the difference. If it is then Zineryt won't really work but there are topical anti biotic creams especially for it that target the possible cause. Someone on MN S&B had success with Soolantra although I've never had experience with it personally. Might be worth looking into.

Agree with treating your skin very gently as if it is sensitive.

(I'm giving up posting today because my beak. And my phone hate me today and thus took ages. Leaving that beak as proof.)

Popsicle if you're wearing sunscreen like a proper devotee of these threads, micellar isn't enough as a cleanser. As mentioned by others regardless it needs to be rinsed with something after as it's not a good idea to leave surfactants on your skin.

A lot of the French pharmacy cleansers can be taken off with cotton pads but I'd still rec using a thermal water after. What exactly is your issue with water, are you actually allergic?

The redness/localised acne may very well be rosacea, there's several types and not every GP recognises them all so it may be worth pursuing with a dermatologist.

Thanks for the replies, lots to think about!

Pigeon I have tried various salicylic acid products in the past, washes, creams etc and really didn't make a jot of difference. Not sure if that's because they're were "entry level" drugstore type things and something more concentrated or in a different form would help.

Enid and botemp it really doesn't match up to any description of rosacea i've seen, particularly as in days when I was more cavalier about sun protection sun exposure actually helped clear it rather than making it worse, which should be the opposite of rosacea as I understand. Also zineryt completely cleared it in past, which I don't think would be in keeping. Last GP I saw said she didn't think it was rosacea and named a different form of acne but have forgotten which. But I will read up more on rosacea in case she/I were mistaken. Dermatologist is not an option financially at the moment.

Botemp ok, rumbled, I have been a bit lax since the temperatures plunged, mainly because what I was using, a Bioderma SPF can't remember full name, was really not suitable, just left my face looking like an oil slick. So yes, finding the right SPF will be the next priority.

On the cleanser thing, I've used an avene wipe-off one in the past that worked ok for me, could go back to that. Not allergic to water but felt it was having a really drying effect, may just have been too hot or over vigorous rubbing.

Salicylic acid was/is my skin saviour, I consider it the product that cleared my cystic acne and that keeps it at bay now. Too bad to hear it can have the opposite effect, but that proves how skincare can be a case of trial and error.

Not all products with salicylic acid are made equal. The better ones have no iritants, alcohol, perfume (this is easy enough to check) but they should also be formulated to be at the right pH (low, under 4 I think, this is harder to check).
I consider all cleansers with salicylic acid to have no special effect because they simply don't have time to do anything in the short time they are on the skin.

I’m so sensitive to salicylic acid now if I use anything with it in my chin goes bright red and irritated. I put it down to years of clearasil.

Pigeon that's good to know, about optimal pH of salicylic/being ineffective in washes. I may look into it further down the line. Will also shelve the GOW products until I've got a better routine in place with sunscreen & cleanser.

On the subject of sunscreen is everone sticking to 50SPFs year-round or are any of you switching to 30 for autumn/winter? I do like the idea of using something the minimum amount possible of chemicals/minerals on my face that I can get away with but some of the 'classics' that people seem to like for their cosmetic qualities, e.g. Biore, seem only to come in a 50spf version.

Actually, hate to contradict, but salycilic is one of the few acids shown to be effective in a face wash. The concentration is lower but it's still effective and gentle.

Unless you're on a prescription or dealing with serious pigmentation like melasma, then the minimum of SPF50 is overkill, 30 is fine provided you use enough and the difference in protection between the two is something like 95% and 97%, or something like that. But as you've mentioned the ones we like are often SPF 50, the Frezyderm does exist in 30 but most of the Japanese are SPF 50 because they're more overly concerned with UVA rays as they're genetically more prone to pigmentation. Globally there aren't very good regulations WRT UVA rays, the UK star system is abysmal and misleading. But broadly there is regulation that a high UVB protection needs a certain amount of UVA protection in relation to that (I think it's 2/3 and then UVA is circled). Therefore the higher the UVB protection (SPF) the higher the UVA protection (PPD or PA+) in relation to that so from an anti-ageing standpoint, where you wear it year-round for the UVA protection, SPF50 makes more sense.

@botemp I guess never put my trust in cleansers to do more than cleanse without drying the skin or leaving a residue. So if a cleanser is effective and gentle, it's good enough for me. I did try the salicylic acid face wash from Mario Bădescu but it did nothing for my acne ( I used a few bottles I think), which was so bad that it needed a leave on product.